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  1. #1
    SitePoint Member
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    I have just learnt Frontpage 2000 and am presently studying html and adobe photoshop 5.5. I would very much like to work in this field as a web designer. I am new to the field and would like to know what avenues are open to me for now. I would like to work from home...anyone know of any info or someone who needs help with a web site using FP2000 let me know...thanks.

  2. #2
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    Actually Shaila, it doesn't matter that you know FP2000 nor Photoshop nor any other big things if you haven't got a creative mind. But if you have a creative mind you are a lot with FP2000, html and Photoshop, although I think you should really learn Flash4.

    Christophe

    ------------------
    Freesources.net - the ultimate webmaster resources site
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  3. #3
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    It's good that you're studying html, which is a must for all good web designers. In addition, you may find some small jobs, but if you really want to survive in this field you should become an expert in html,javascript,some java, and like freesources said know a little bit about new technologies like flash and so forth.

  4. #4
    Misfit
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    You can't stay alive in the field of web design if you're a newbie. I tried starting a design company site a year after I learned how to design, and it still didn't work. I think I have finally succeded this time; 3 to 4 years after I first started designing! So take this into mind: you can't start a web design company when you know you're a newbie. It took me 4 years, and I'm still trying to master "design."

    ------------------
    Justin Stayton
    WEB: http://www.j.cx
    EMAIL: justin@j.cx
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  5. #5
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    What Justin said.

    Also its my personal opinion Joe Schmoe who just fiddles around on FP for a few months should not try to pose as a professional or to sell his services.

    I wish there was a Bar exam for Web Design. I really don't like it when Amatuers sell below par websites, go and do them for free, but when you sell this garbage I feel it makes me look bad because I'm in the same industry. I'm not trying to bite off any heads now, so don't take offense. I'm just speaking in general.

    And this is a major reason why I abhor frontpage. It just breeds more Amatuers selling low quality work. Again Shaila, this is meant as no offense to you.

    You can design good sites in frontpage. I wont deny that. However the thing is most people who use Frontpage are Amatuers, Newbies. They haven't been doing things long enough to know general web design concepts, like dont use animated gifs, that yellow text is hard to read. Etc. And they are dependent on this program that makes errors, and they have no idea how to fix these errors.

    I often equivocate Web Design to Art. And while nearly everyone can paint, not everyone is an Artist.

    So for you, I would stop using frontpage. Learn by hand first, this develops discipline, it makes you work, and above all it teaches you. Then when you get adept at coding go back to frontpage if you wish and use it to automate things.

    This is exactly like Calculators and Grade Schoolers. When you're in 4th grade you don't get to use a Calculator to do that long division. You have to sit there, and work out every last problem. But then by the time you're in highschool you get to use a Calculator on everything, because you know how to do it by hand, you know how it works, you know how to apply, a calculator just speeds up the tedious part. So dont be reliant on a Calculator. Learn the basics first, then use a Calculator to speed things up.

    Chris


  6. #6
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    Good thing my name's Mike Fisher and not Joe Schmoe!

    Seriously, I agree with everybody else's comments. Although I think that for me it was a shorter time span to start designing. [Around two years.]

  7. #7
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    My suggestion to you if you really want to succeed is to take learn under someone or donate your new services to local charities. This enables you to learn and grow without alienating customers.
    <UL TYPE=SQUARE>
    <LI>Look to see if their are any internships or positions open for beginning designers in your area.
    <LI>Work with someone who has already established their business and needs some help. As you get more advanced you can take on your own clients or more responsibilitys.
    <LI>Read all the articles at Sitepoint and check these forums regularly because there is a lot more to web design than HTML these days. In fact HTML is probably the least significant part of modern web design.
    </UL>

    I disagree with others when they say you have to learn a bunch of technologies before you can be successful. While these technologies are necessary you can always partner yourself with people who can provide these services. As Web Design gets more programmatic and technical you will start to see a lot of small time operators dying out, building strategic alliances will allow those people to still compete.

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  8. #8
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>Originally posted by aspen:
    What Justin said.

    Also its my personal opinion Joe Schmoe who just fiddles around on FP for a few months should not try to pose as a professional or to sell his services.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It does not mean that you can't make a professional site when you have been fiddling around with FP for a few months. If you have a creative mind you can come far. And I saw several so called design companies who actually were worse as newbies. One even had a logo created with WordArt! And they had customers!!!!

    But I do think you have to know some things about browser compability (which I just recently mastered) color schemes, technical classifications of pages, etc etc.

    Christophe



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    Freesources.net - the ultimate webmaster resources site
    WebmasterCJ design - opening new worlds for small prices

  9. #9
    SitePoint Zealot ANETEK's Avatar
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    You need to post some examples of your work.

    Elton

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    anetek@email.com
    www.anetek.com



  10. #10
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Ugh, here we go again with this anti-FrontPage stuff.

    Look: experience is important, and there are some (SOME!!!) aspects of design and development that an only be ascertained through raw experience, however there is no *actual* reason why you cannot be a high quality web designer only a few months into the beginning. I've been at it for about 2 years now and feel I'm just now starting to really make significant progress, however I'll bet that many of the people here (myself included) didn't have their sites totally aimed at become a killer designer...if I had been, I'd have reached the point I'm at now a LOT sooner!

    Some people latch onto things well. If you ask me, the way to tell how your layout stacks up is to post it for review here on SitePoint...if the feedback is highly favorable, then you're definetly on your way. The judgement of this community is highly reliable.



    ------------------
    Chris Bowyer chris@mycoding.com
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  11. #11
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    I'm with you Chris. I know enough webmaster who use FP2000 and that are webmasters of websites of big companies with great websites. But I also know ppl who should be considered being fired and hire some younger ppl. OK this sounds cruel but some things have to be said. The webmaster of the website of our government is a 50 year old woman (she has been in the paper) and she places like childess animated GIFs, she uses only two colors over the site, except than for the GIF and once she stated that she wanted to add our National hymne to the page (lol) and she wasn't allowed to do that. I have nothing against woman nor against ppl of 50 but in my opinion the youth, with which I mean around 18-28 years of age, should get a chance there. I know you can't give a governemental site lots of flashy things but I'm sure you can come up with a design in the range of SitePoint. It's beautyfull, yet serious.

    I'm sure the person who makes the governemental site must have more experience now but she still doesn't come up with something good. So in my opinion the thing you need to be a designer (read: Artist) is something you have or you haven't but you can always learn new things, but you need that special thing to bring these new things together in a great way.

    Christophe

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    Freesources.net - the ultimate webmaster resources site
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  12. #12
    The Hiding One lynlimz's Avatar
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    Hey Guys,

    I don't agree with some of the things you guys have said. There aren't a certain period of which before you can start. If you have the talent and creativity, jst with Frontpage and a little skills with Adobe Photoshop will get you fair.

    I've known web designing for 8 months now. I havw come far enough to get some large contracts for web designing.

    Regards,

    Nortiq Web Services http://nortiq.com &lt;&lt; Under Development

  13. #13
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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>Originally posted by lynlimz:
    Hey Guys,

    I don't agree with some of the things you guys have said. There aren't a certain period of which before you can start. If you have the talent and creativity, jst with Frontpage and a little skills with Adobe Photoshop will get you fair.

    I've known web designing for 8 months now. I havw come far enough to get some large contracts for web designing.

    Regards,

    Nortiq Web Services http://nortiq.com &lt;&lt; Under Development
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Thanks this is what I want to know...tell me how u did it in this field for a start with little skills...any little info or ideas will help at this point. Whom do I contact and what should I do for a start?

  14. #14
    The Hiding One lynlimz's Avatar
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    Greetings Shaila,

    The main things that you have to do now, is get familiar with HTML. You can do it via Frontpage 2000. You should also surf around and read articles on HTML and Web Designing.

    When using Frontpage, look frequently to the HTML code. Optimise it if required. Set Frontpage 2000 to not optimise your code.

    When you surf for articles, its recommended to print those that you find suitble for usage in future. Read them and take note of it.

    The next is very important. The only way to excell is to create unique and outstanding web sites. Don't take to looks that you see everywhere...for example, yahoo's main page. In short, be creative in whatever you do. Having little knowledge of using Adobe PS is alright. If you look to my website, the images I create are very basic thereby enhancing page load time. However, when come together, the images combine to create a very professional look.

    Next comes your site. You must give an excellent impression. For the first 2-3 clients, charge them low, yet enough to support yourself. Use those to add to your experience. These first few clinets are important as they will decide your future.

    Look to boards and websites for more tips etc. Consult help if required, and gain a large social circle of professionals in this field. Acquire knowldege and skills in te same time.

    I give these advices based on my own experiences. Everything in the end turns out to yourself. If you have the gift, you can make it. If you don't, make the best of what you have. Don't be greedy. When the time comes, the money will come in. Right now, be humble and do what you have to, and listen to advices and comments when needed.

    P.S. : Create a beta test team. Essential to test your design on various platforms and browsers etc.

    You also need basic skills like JavaScript and CSS1/2 for better sites.

    You can contact me if needed. I'll be more willing to asisst you.

  15. #15
    SitePoint Enthusiast Morpheos's Avatar
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    I agree with lynlimz since i have had a small time span in getting started in web design. I have been into this for 4 years now and since i live in an area where web design and web pages is something new and exiting for growing bussinesses that want to get a hold of 30 Million internet users, its a good field.

    Anyway, what lynlimz sayed is exactly what you have to do. For Your first couple of costumers you have to give a cheap price but enough for it to be reasonable. Experience now is more important then money at this point so if you have a creative mind then let go!!



    ------------------
    Morpheos - Web Developer
    Digital Works Web Design/Development
    morpheos@carib.com

    ICQ: 65778801

  16. #16
    The Hiding One lynlimz's Avatar
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    Morpheos..
    BTW...Your site's design is very good. =)))!!!

  17. #17
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    For the record: I consider HTML, CSS, and just a minor grasp of Perl and maybe PHP (to customize scripts easily) to be essentials for a webmaster, but I do not consider heavy database programming or JavaScript to be necessary...nice? Yes. Helpful? Of course...but I think most of us can get by with free cut-and-paste JavaScripts for most of our tasks.


    ------------------
    Chris Bowyer chris@mycoding.com
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  18. #18
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    I agree w/ some of what TWTCommish said. Lots of free scripts available to do most anything you need. I have worked w/ Netscape Composer, CoffeeCup HTML Editors, Allaire Homesite, FP, & others. My favorite is Netscape, not the most popular. I have found it helpful to disect pages or javascript coding, when I want to learn or am confused by something. I think that there are sooo many new technologies, programs, etc. that there is no way I will know them all, & there are "fashionable" things coming & going all the time... partnering is the answer when you need something done that you are not proficient at. Design (in all areas) is a constantly evolving (well not always!)... changing thing! You learn design, can you learn creativity? I don't know.


    Web design is a real interest to me and when you are interested in something, seems it's easier to learn. Learn what you need & what interests you.

    Selling your work is harder, I think the idea of doing some barter, charity, trade work is great, as is getting your pages critiqued.
    JC

  19. #19
    SitePoint Enthusiast Morpheos's Avatar
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    I do not think that you can learn creativity. That is why Web Page Designer is such a sought after job. The Designer must be creative, artistic and a programmer (as much as needed, does'nt have to be a geek) but it is very important that this person can do all of these above mentioned things.
    When you are really good in those fields you can be asured that you wont be unemployed for long.

    Thanks, lynlimz, for the compliment. I try my best.



    ------------------
    Morpheos - Web Developer
    Digital Works Web Design/Development
    morpheos@carib.com

    ICQ: 65778801

  20. #20
    The Hiding One lynlimz's Avatar
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    YUP..No Problem..yur site looks really good anyways...

    BTW..anyone have AOL 4.0 or IE4 or WebTV?

    I need to beta test if my site works on these browsers. thanks

  21. #21
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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>Originally posted by lynlimz:
    YUP..No Problem..yur site looks really good anyways...

    BTW..anyone have AOL 4.0 or IE4 or WebTV?

    I need to beta test if my site works on these browsers. thanks
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Lynlimz,

    What is ur E-mail Addie in case I have any questions to ask u and by the way out of curiousity was just wondering if u r from S'pore. I think read somewhere here which mentioned that. I am from there too but now I am in US.

  22. #22
    SitePoint Zealot ANETEK's Avatar
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  23. #23
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    There's a feature in FP2000 which allows you to preview your pages in a WebTV Simulator and other browser installed and that in different resolutions

    Man I just love FP2000

    It's located under the 'File' menu and it's named 'Preview in browser'

    Hope this helps...

    Christophe

    ------------------
    Freesources.net - the ultimate webmaster resources site
    WebmasterCJ design - opening new worlds for small prices

  24. #24
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    Shaila: If (when) you know MS Frontpage by heart, you have an excellent starting point to learn database-driven web design, as Fronpage is "database-ready". Learn ASP and database basics.

    Prior to applying for work, make sure you have a site or two to show for - that will increase your chances of getting the job by somewhere in the neighbourhood of a gazillion percent. Set up a pretend e-zine or something similar.

    All the information you need to get going can be found online.

    Morpheos: Excellent design on your "Digital Works" website. But please, PLEASEEEE remove those ugly IWA/HWG/RSAC/etc. images from your first page - they destroy the first impression and makes an otherwise beautiful page look (almost )crappy.

    lynlimz:
    Download the WebTV Viewer at: http://developer.webtv.net/design/tools/viewer/
    or locate and download various new and old browsers at: http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/find.htm

    Best regards
    Big Nothing

  25. #25
    SitePoint Wizard wdmny's Avatar
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    Back in the day...(haha) Actually, when I started learing to make webpages, WYSIWYG editors were not real popular and there wasn't a large need for them, so I learned html very well before anything else. I highly recommend learning all you can of html so that you can fix errors, create smaller pages, and sometimes even get things done faster.

    ------------------
    Wes
    Windows-Network
    600 Web Studios


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