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  1. #51
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    WebmasterMattD: I doubt your experience on our field. Same goes to James...

    Microsoft worked VERY hard and spend lots of money on the development of FP2000. Results are obvious:
    => FP2000 DOESN'T REWRITE THE CODE
    => NEW FEATURES
    etc.

    You all had bad experience with FP98, me too. But I gave FP2000 a chance and my opinion is that it is much better than any other editor. The only wysiwyg editor I have never used is Adobe GoLive!.

    Christophe



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  2. #52
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Lets get this straight.

    FrontPage 98 and 2000 were designed to make it easy for people (especially newcomers) to make a simple site. If it wasn't, then why would there be themes there?

    Dreamweaver was created to be the most powerful WYSIWYG editor there is, and that's what happened.

    For me: I need power, so I need Dreamweaver. I know you guys are going to fire back that FrontPage can do anything Dreamweaver can - but you are dead wrong. Even C|NET reported that it can do much more than FP can.

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    Aidan Bahta
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    ActiveWM.com - The place for the Active Webmaster.

  3. #53
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>
    For me: I need power, so I need Dreamweaver. I know you guys are going to fire back that FrontPage can do anything Dreamweaver can - but you are dead wrong. Even C|NET reported that it can do much more than FP can.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Maybe out of the box it can but neither of them have optimised code for specific purposes. The truth of the matter is if someone masters Frontpage they can produce the exact same quality site as someone who has mastered Dreamweaver, as long as they have the same capabilities in Web Design.

    On the same token someone that uses default templates, code or add-ins provided by both programs are more like to produce junky code.


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  4. #54
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    Thanks wluke..

    I tried to explain that.. but nobody seems to understand me...

    Christophe

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  5. #55
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    Freesources.net can not be made by DreamWeaver . It uses border colors...

    But anyway I'm up for the challenge, but I can't do anything before 1 August

    Christophe

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    http://freesources.net - the ultimate webmaster resources site

  6. #56
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Elledan presents a very interesting competition! Hey Christophe: wanna team up here or something? I want in!

    That is one thing...I find FP2000 supports all kinds of style attributes that other editors don't...so that might complicate things.

    I'll download a trial version of Dreamweaver right away...after that, here's what I propose:

    Elledan gives us something simple, but complicated enough to present a challenge...lots of nested tables or something...then Christophe and I both try to replicate it. Christophe is superior in skill to me (from what I've seen)...but odds are we'll both be able to re-produce it. We may need to view the code for reference, but we won't copy it.

    This has the potential to be a LOT of fun! If both you guys wanna seriously go ahead with this, then I can start a new thread in the General Forums, or at least a new thread here for discussion.

    What a cool idea, thanks Elledan!



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  7. #57
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Get ready because Aidan is ready to defend the Dream(weaver) team!

    Freesources.net can be made in Dreamweaver! Border colors are a feature!

    I cant wait for this to begin...

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    Aidan Bahta
    abahta@flashmail.com

    ActiveWM.com - The place for the Active Webmaster.

  8. #58
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    When you can give the design to reproduce within 24h, I might be able to try something. Glad you're with me Chris We're going to kick those Dream(Weav)ers !butts!

    Christophe

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  9. #59
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    Wow! This is gonna be hot! I knew you guys were eager to defend your favorite product, but this much? Anyway, I'm looking forward to the results!

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    Elledan Dunedain
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    www.emudreams.web.com

  10. #60
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    Maybe the best thing is to reproduce a known site. I thougt maybe AltaVista?

    Christophe

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  11. #61
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Reproducing a known site is probably best - that way there can be no arguments that the base site was optimised for FP etc.
    I will be giving FP2000 a try, after all the arguments about oit that have been going on in this forum. I'll let you know what I think of it.
    To both teams (ie FP and Dreamweaver), Good Luck!!!
    P.S.
    Maybe if any kind and generous people have a bit of webspace free, then we can stick these sites up online for a while, so that we can all compare the results.

  12. #62
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    AltaVista sounds pretty cool...do we have some kind of date to start with?



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    "I'm not an insomniac, I'm a web designer."

  13. #63
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    Well... Wdenesday I'm off on a two week holiday and I won't be able to do something than... AltaVista is complicate to reproduce although it looks easy. I took a look at the code. Wow...

    Christophe

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  14. #64
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    Why do you even bother using FP? HTML, XHTML, DHTML etc in notepad are great for page design but if you dont want to give up FP then use dreamweaver or HTML shrinker's HTML clean up feature.

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    In a world with Bill Gates, Prozac is a Godsend.

  15. #65
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    There are a bunch of guys on this forum who are convinced that FP2k is The Only True Editor and not DW or any other. So this competition will proof which one is 'the best'. Else they'll probably kill each other when they grow tired of fighting each other on this forum

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    Elledan Dunedain
    Webmaster
    www.emudreams.web.com

  16. #66
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    I'm confident the FrontPage 2000 team will win. I'm off on a 14 day holiday trip so I can't possibly follow the developments in this case.

    Christophe

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  17. #67
    SitePoint Wizard
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    As I have said before, there is no single best editor. There is an easy editor, there is a powerful editor.

    FrontPage is much easier to learn and much easier to master, but Dreamweaver can do more (I think).

    If you are new, then FrontPage is a better bet. If you are advanced, then I think Dreamweaver is better.

    Can't wait to start this contest.

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    Aidan Bahta
    abahta@activewm.com

    ActiveWM.com - The place for the Active Webmaster.

  18. #68
    SitePoint Zealot ANETEK's Avatar
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    This contest idea is great. You can see that I've a seperate thread going asking for FP2000 pages, ideas and examples.

    Is is possible to use both? Can a page be started in one (FP or DW), continued in the other, finished in the first and later maintained in the second? If not, what won't work?

    Thanks in advance.

    Elton

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  19. #69
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    If you start designing your site in FP, you'll better not use those fancy FP-only-stuff since many of them just don't work or get messed up in DW. From DW to FP there seems to be no problem, at least not that I've heard of.
    As long as the site is quite basic, there won't be big problems, the problems start when it gets advanced.

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    Elledan Dunedain
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  20. #70
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Looks like the contest is off.

    Not a word in a few days, not good.

    I am still up to doing it if you guys want to.

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    Aidan Bahta
    abahta@activewm.com

    ActiveWM.com - The place for the Active Webmaster.

  21. #71
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    Personally, I prefer Little Debbie 'Nutty Bars' to Hostess 'Suzie-Q's'. I like the power Nutty Bars give me in dictating my ratio of crispy wafer to creamy peanut butter per bite. Suzie Q's on the other hand, leave my fingers caked in spongy chocolate goo, and my stomach feeling bloated.

    Why is everyone looking at me funny?

  22. #72
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Nutty Bars are very good programmer food. Not much can compare to them.

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    Wayne Luke - Sitepoint Forums Administrator
    Digital Magician Magazine - MetaQuark Creations (Coming Soon)
    sitepoint@digitalmagician.com

  23. #73
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    Shees, you guys are nuts...

  24. #74
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Anyone ever stick a Twinkie in the freezer for an hour or two? The cream gets a bit dense and the whole thing tastes great...but it gets stuck on you're fingers big time...

    I like to eat Hot Pockets, thankfully not too messy or anything...definetly the ultimate developer's food.



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    Chris Bowyer - Programmer in Training
    DomainMailings.com: Who says all the good names are taken?
    "I'm not an insomniac, I'm a web designer."

  25. #75
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    Talking about off topic...
    Let's just sit back and talk about our favorite cookies (the ones you can eat!) and more funny stuff. I thought all of us were grown up adults, but apparently this is not the case... Sheesh...

    ------------------
    Elledan Dunedain
    Webmaster
    www.emudreams.web.com


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