SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

View Poll Results: Flash-acceptable or not?

Voters
43. You may not vote on this poll
  • Ohh, I love scaleable/cross-platform streaming Flash

    8 18.60%
  • Not too bad I suppose, if done well

    20 46.51%
  • Flash, pah... what a waste of bandwidth!

    15 34.88%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 49
  1. #1
    Photoshop Ninja jonnya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Birmingham UK
    Posts
    733
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    To Flash, or not to Flash...whats your opinion??

    I am an avid Flash developer, and see it as a viable option for use in a-lot of websites, be it used in combination with HTML/etc, or just on it's own.

    For instance, my site (which I'm still working on) is completely Flash generated. I realise that it's not always appropriate to do this, but for my market I think it's perfectly acceptable.

    The question I put to you is... how acceptable do you find Flash usage if it is done well, and doesn't have a 10 minute preloader on the front end. Look at my site, it streams in with only a small introduction. The whole interface is only about 40k, and without the background image it's only about 22k!! All other content is pulled in on layers to keep it efficient (and some other stuff you wouldn't even realise!!).

    Does Flash make you happy, or do you see it as the curse of the net... just thought it would be interesting to see how more 'developer' orientated people felt about this subject...
    Jonnya Freelance Creative
    UK Freelance designer and web developer
    Website | Portfolio | Photoshop Tips

  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard iTec's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    2,243
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i think its a waste of bandwidth, i have never seen a good flash site with plenty of content that was quick and readable, and i dont visit sites just to see what cool effect the designer has figured out, i visit them for the content. portfolio sites and stuff like that in flash are okay, thats if i bother to wait for the proloader.

  3. #3
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Halmstad, Sweden
    Posts
    7,400
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    While your site is very nice and fast loading (even faster than most HTML sites) I still think HTML based sites are generally more viable, for one reason and one reason only - standardized interface. All cars have a similiar steering wheel for a reason.
    Mattias Johansson
    Short, Swedish, Web Developer

    Buttons and Dog Tags with your custom design:
    FatStatement.com

  4. #4
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Newcastle, England
    Posts
    268
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Used well it can be great. Used poorly it's one of the most irritating inventions since the blink tag.

    I think the problem is that so many people take the "love it or loathe it" attitude. They either think Flash is the proverbial mutt's nuts and squeeze it into everything (even where it's obviously not needed), or they avoid it like the plague. Which is a shame, because there are plenty of times a clever, usable, fast-loading piece of Flash can be a godsend.

    I'm not a huge fan of Flash-only sites (mainly because it's difficult to bookmark, copy & paste text etc. and they often have irritating navigation). But I've seen plenty of sites with Flash elements - navigation systems, animated diagrams/tutorials etc. - which have been great, and would have been far more clumsy with any other method.

    In my opinion, Flash is just another tool which can be useful sometimes and not others. The best "Flashers" (sounds rude but never mind) to my mind aren't people like Eric Jordan; they're the ones that use Flash for a definite purpose, often so subtly that you hardly notice it's there.

    Btw I voted for the middle option as the closest to "good in the right situation".
    Nick Wilson [ - email - ]

  5. #5
    Net Senior Citizen tommatthews's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    869
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I was about to post a reply but CrazyCrane took the words right out of my mouth.

    I think the best use of Flash is when you don't even realise that you are using it!


    affordable website design

    :: sydney australia ::

  6. #6
    SitePoint Addict DevilBear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Hades
    Posts
    301
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    oh my god

    My problem with the way most people use Flash: I don't care how quickly it downloads if it makes me wait while it animates everything into existence. What was the point of mainstreaming broadband access if web designers are just going to make you sit there anyway?

    There is no such thing as pacing on the web. Users have set the pace and it is this: NOW. As quickly as possible. Yesterday, preferably.

  7. #7
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Halmstad, Sweden
    Posts
    7,400
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    CrazyCrane - very well said!

    Flash is best when it's needed, such as specialized navigation interfaces, or other interactive elements.
    Mattias Johansson
    Short, Swedish, Web Developer

    Buttons and Dog Tags with your custom design:
    FatStatement.com

  8. #8
    Photoshop Ninja jonnya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Birmingham UK
    Posts
    733
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Intersting feedback so far guys, keep it coming! Come on Flash adicts, lets see some more 'for' votes!!
    Jonnya Freelance Creative
    UK Freelance designer and web developer
    Website | Portfolio | Photoshop Tips

  9. #9
    What? Maelstrom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Whistler BC originally from Guelph Ontario
    Posts
    2,175
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You should have 1 more option. I like flash. But only for navigation. Otherwise whole sites dedicated to flash are like having a splash screen.
    Maelstrom Personal - Apparition Visions
    Development - PhP || Mysql || Zend || Devshed
    Unix - FreeBSD || FreeBsdForums || Man Pages
    They made me a sitepoint Mentor - Feel free to PM me or Email me and I will see if I can help.

  10. #10
    ...
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    759
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Talking Flash makes me Happy !

    When i think of Flash sites that work (from a purely browsing experience) i dont think anything has come close to the old Gabocorp site, movie clip buttons that react differently depending on when you mouse off and that revolver navigation system that seemed to have mass! It all worked perfectly (even on a slow system).

    It depends on your market; even tho it would be possible to build a news portal / mainstream e-commerce site all in Flash, with no unnecessary animation and sounds, so you could bookmark pages, track visitors and copy and paste out content i dont think we'll ever see this type of site converting.

    However if your not reliant on meta search engine traffic and visitors on old systems for your crust there's no reason why you shouldn't build a whole site in Flash.

  11. #11
    Photoshop Ninja jonnya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Birmingham UK
    Posts
    733
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You are right Chas (nice site btw!). I don't think Flash will ever become truely mainstream in the sense of portals and the like...
    Jonnya Freelance Creative
    UK Freelance designer and web developer
    Website | Portfolio | Photoshop Tips

  12. #12
    K, Dan K Dan_K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Perth - Western Australia
    Posts
    475
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    How about that FLASH site you posted up Chas

    eStudio.com

    Its now my favorite site, for all those how doubt flash take a look.

    -Dan
    Last edited by Dan_K; Jan 29, 2002 at 22:20.
    -Daniel Kerton,
    Humor

  13. #13
    SitePoint Enthusiast Crockett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Miami FLA
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I personally think flash is a great tool when used in the right circumstances. It can provide really immersive experiences. So for pure branding sites, where you really want to invoke a feeling w/ the user, flash is awesome.

    For text heavy sites - even w/ the inclusion of limited html and improved back-end connections w/ flash 5 (hopefully even better w/ flash 6!), flash doesn't seem to be the best solution.

    In the relatively short time we've all been using the web, we've all become accustomed to certain gui items and conventions. Breaking the traditional gui mold as many flash developers do, while necessary to forward User Experience tends to be a pain.

    I bet most people that surf alot almost always skip intros these days, and have very little patience for any type of navigation that requires more than a couple seconds to figure out.

    One area that i know flash will excel in is on the Pocket PC platform. Flash really is a super application for these devices because we can start to really use it to build 'real applications' as well as 'websites'.

    So in conclusion - Love it for branding, love it seamlessly inserted into text heavy sites for a little pizazz, and really love it for the PocketPC platform. We all need to carefully choose the technologies we use to display our content and message, rather than dumping content into flash just to have a flash site.

  14. #14
    SitePoint Guru
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I voted waste of bandwidth but that's a bit stronger than I really feel about it. There are times that it's a good thing. I just feel it's called for much, much, much less than it's used. I'd add a couple more muches there but you get the idea. I've seen very few Flash sites that wouldn't be better user experiences in HTML. I do one site that is for the market that supposedly loves Flash (young music fans) and get compliments all the time about how much easier it is to use than other sites in its genre. I don't think the users realize that one big difference is the lack of Flash and other bells and whistles. They just know it loads fast and they can get where they want easily. Basically, I think it can be great for an interactive element, when there's a reason for it. But mostly, I don't like it.

  15. #15
    K, Dan K Dan_K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Perth - Western Australia
    Posts
    475
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Once ADSL and/or cable become mainstream flash may be used in portals along with Generator, for updating. But thats a fare way off.


    -Dan
    -Daniel Kerton,
    Humor

  16. #16
    SitePoint Guru siphilp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Fife, Scotland
    Posts
    663
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I agree that poor flash sites are annoying. I liked the Kevin and Perry go large site, was funky. I don't think i would want a whole site done in flash maybe a logo and splash screen..... Then again i ain't a flash developer so if i done mines in pure flash it come under the poor annoying category



    Si

  17. #17
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Halmstad, Sweden
    Posts
    7,400
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by Dan_K
    How about that FLASH site you posted up Chas

    eStudio.com

    Its now my favorite site, for all those how doubt flash take a look.

    -Dan
    That was like... wow. It almost converted me.
    Mattias Johansson
    Short, Swedish, Web Developer

    Buttons and Dog Tags with your custom design:
    FatStatement.com

  18. #18
    SitePoint Guru
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's beautifully done, but it launched a fullscreen window at me for no apparent reason. It did have controls so it's not like the ones you have to control/alt/delete to get rid of, but I still don't like that. I'm at the site - why to I have to launch it now? And I don't like intros. Once inside the site it's pretty cool.

    I wonder if anyone has any stats about what percentage of users choose "skip intro" and what percentages choose Flash or HTML when that choice is presented. I usually choose the HTML even if I'm on a broadband connection, unless I have reason to think that the Flash version has additional content I might want. That is partly because so many Flash sites are badly designed and I'm afraid of wasting time trying to navigate through one of those. When it's a well designed site it's not a problem, of course, but so far that's not the majority.

  19. #19
    SitePoint Addict smcausland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Victoria, BC, Canada
    Posts
    233
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I honestly beleive it is a waste of time and bandwith. The internet is better suited to infomation than entertainment
    www.treelinestudio.com
    Online Showcase of works by Canadian Watercolour artist David Brougham.

  20. #20
    Net Senior Citizen tommatthews's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    869
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    eSudio.com has to be the best Flash site I have seen!

    I loved Internet killed the video star


    affordable website design

    :: sydney australia ::

  21. #21
    + + + Droopy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    My Little Humblehome
    Posts
    169
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This is also a good site :

    EYE 4 U

    I honestly beleive it is a waste of time and bandwith. The internet is better suited to infomation than entertainment
    I'm not sure about that, smcausland. Flash can help to make the site more attractive. The site will stay longer in your memory, because there was movement. Just my opinion.

    Cya around
    Visit my online portfolio : here

    Web [ 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 ] /// Flash [ 1 - 2 - 3 ]
    Headers [ Collection ] /// Logo's [ Collection ]

  22. #22
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Halmstad, Sweden
    Posts
    7,400
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by Droopy
    I'm not sure about that, smcausland. Flash can help to make the site more attractive. The site will stay longer in your memory, because there was movement. Just my opinion.
    You are right - movement and flash can make a site stay longer in memory. However, people (99.5% of them, anyway) don't come to your site to be impressed - they want content. They don't want to remember your design. They want to remember your content. People don't want the text to fade in and say "bweep".

    People just want to read the goddamm text.

    Eye4U made a VERY impressive intro movie for Impress Software. They got a LOT of good feedback on it. Too bad it wasn't from actual customers, but from designers visiting the site to look at the cool animation. The rest of the world was interested in the actual services of Impress Software, and couldn't care less of the cool flash movie.

    Unless the site is there to impress or entertain in the first place, like eye4u and estudio, using flash is most likely a bad business decision, since animation, music and other whiz-bang stands in the way of the users quest for content. Flash sites with (useful) content are a VERY rare thing, and it's for a reason.

    I'm not saying that Flash is bad, though. Have you seen the new Palm m705? While I'm not too impressed with the device itself, the Flash demonstration they have of it at their website is a very good example of how flash can be used in a truly useful manner. It's not there to impress or entertain - it's there to help convey the message. THAT is how flash should be used.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Last edited by M. Johansson; Feb 3, 2002 at 05:33.
    Mattias Johansson
    Short, Swedish, Web Developer

    Buttons and Dog Tags with your custom design:
    FatStatement.com

  23. #23
    SitePoint Guru
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Flash would probably be used better if designers really understood the points made by truelight. One thing I've been saying all along, and mostly been drowned out, is that designers are excited that these technologies are becoming possible on the computer. Regular users have seen all this and more on their tv screens for decades. The fact that they're on their computer screen isn't going to make them want to see commercials, and that's what most Flash intros really are. Websites shouldn't be commmercials or ads. If they sell the product, they're stores. You wouldn't make someone sit and watch a song and dance act before allowing them to purchase or learn what they need to know about your product, would you? If they're not selling a product directly, they're probably providing information about something. If you're going to the trouble of creating a website, presumably you want
    to provide that information. Don't put up barriers to it. Personally, I've gotten to the point where I get annoyed if I have to click "skip intro" let alone if there isn't that option. If you can skip it, then what purpose does it really serve? And while wonderful demos can be produced in Flash, they'd better be interactive in a functional way. If someome wants a passive experience, just sitting and watching while things happen on a screen, the TV is never far away.

    I'm not a graphic designer, but I know something about how they think, having a very good one in my immediate family. She's naturally interested in good design. She notices and admires it in print ads and packaging, which is her main field, all the time. She notices things that the average person never would. However, because it's a much older field, there are tried and true ways to see if a design is succeeding in reaching the consumer and sometimes she has to go with the design that doesn't excite her rather than the one that does. That restraint isn't shown often enough, yet, in web design.

  24. #24
    SitePoint Addict Scud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    222
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Like CrazyCrane said, when used correctly Flash is a wonderful medium. I'm specializing in flash at my school but unless my client is a artist doing a portfolio, I know my site designing will involve more then just flash.

  25. #25
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Flash, pfffft!

    Flash is such a waste of bandwidth, if you insist on animating everything on the face of the planet, be an animator, not a web designer.
    "The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than the church."
    -Ferdinand Magellan
    GreenTinted.net


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •