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  1. #1
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    Exclamation Cheating Web Design Companys! Grrrrr!

    Hello All!

    Be afraid, be very afraid!

    I am a part of a design company, and I was chattin to co-owners the other day, and something that amused me cropped up! All of the companys customers to date have been web-design firms wanting other firms to do thier sites design for them - my god thats a vote of confidence and a half!

    It used to be a very frequent topic on alt.html where people would complain about web design firms using FrontPage or other WYSIWYG editors to do sites. The arguemtent was that a person who has little knowlage of webdesign and html code etc is paying someone who has a similar knowlage to do a site. Now while this can be agreed with to an extent the fact is that good design goes far further than code, so a decent design could get away with desinging pages on FrontPage.

    But the fact that so called web desinger's are paying other web desingers to design for them is really worrying. Looking round the internet you see alot of comapanies with the best prospectus' in the world, but on a crap site that shows a lack of design knowlage.

    The idea of a site is to advertise to your customers, but I think its better to do the best you can and come out with a crap site than to get another web designer to do it for you and claim it as your own.

    I guess its reasuring knowing that after a few customers have ended up with sites looking like http://www.swottosgrotto.co.uk - which trust me is appauling, to make things worse its owners thinks its not only great but better than some of the webs leading sites, but thats a different matter - they ain't gonna get anymore business!

    Anyways: What do u lots think then?

    Regards :P
    Rick
    Last edited by rboycey; Jan 14, 2002 at 15:37.
    RBoycey

  2. #2
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    I use Dreamweaver.

    Sketch
    Aaron Brazell
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  3. #3
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    But I assume you know how to handcode Aaron . And that is the problem rboycey is describing.

  4. #4
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    In fact, I do know how to hand code. I was just giving Rick the business! I think it's a shame if companies don't do at least most of the work themselves, or at least know how to do the work themselves. Of course, bad on the client who doesn't do homework too.

    Sketch
    Aaron Brazell
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  5. #5
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    The problem was that I find it amusing that so far the web design company I am a part of's only customers have been other web design companys needing designs for thier site.

    I also find it shocking as if I was a customer of one of these people I would want to know and would much rather get design work done by the orignal designer!

    But Sketch is right: ALways do your homework!!

    http://www.hilariousminds.com design was a product of us lot at http://www.rn-design.co.uk !

    Rick :P
    Last edited by rboycey; Jan 14, 2002 at 15:49.
    RBoycey

  6. #6
    SitePoint Wizard johntabita's Avatar
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    What is the difference between a web design company using another web design firm vs. using a web design freelancer? (A common practice.)

    If the client is happy with the work, will they even care if the designer is an actually employee or an outside sub-contractor?

  7. #7
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Well, I use freelancers all the time. You see when you work by yourself you have to do everything yourself. I employed Justin Sampson to do a globe for me this past summer and he did a great job and my client knew I did so, and he is happy too. I think it's HOW the use of outsiders is related to the client. If it's done to relieve a workload or because whatevr is being asked is out of your realm of expertise (as Flash was out of mine) then I think it's okay. Basic HTML there is no excuse for. If you can't program HTML without Frontpage or Dreamweaver you should not be in te industry. As Mark pointed out when I amde my facetious comment, I DO use DW4...but I also handcode as well and I don't use it as my crutch. So it's a matter of perception to the client is my bottom line point.

    Sketch
    Aaron Brazell
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  8. #8
    SitePoint Wizard johntabita's Avatar
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    Oops! Hitting the "Back" button posted my same message again! Sorry.

  9. #9
    Gone Fishing Japhi's Avatar
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    This may be a little off topic, but whats more impressive;

    A)An individual who can hand code an unappealing site or
    B)A designer who uses Dreamweaver (as a crutch) to build a quality site for a customer.

    My point being that the customer probably doesn't give a rats *** as to how the site was made, only if meets his standards.

  10. #10
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy
    beley's Avatar
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    Well, I have seen several "web designers" in our area that merely contract work out to other firms (including mine)... I don't mind doing the work at all. I put all of the sites in my portfolio, maybe not the one on my site but they are definately in the brief I send to potential clients.

    I do think it's pretty bad that web development companies couldn't even be skilled enough to create their own website... if that got out they sure wouldn't have the clients lining up at the door

    Anyway, there are people like that in a lot of industries; they just "resell" products or services for someone else and hope to make good commissions. Look at the hosting industry! How many hosts out there actually have a data center and how many just lease a dedicated server with someone else???

  11. #11
    + platinum's Avatar
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    I think it's fine But it is always a worry when the origional company makes out it is their own work...

    I don't know, but if you have a web design company with some *really* good graphic designers, but with hardly any serverside coding experience, then you may have to sub-contract

  12. #12
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    Thumbs up Many Thanks

    Many Thanks to Mr. Boyce.

    The SG Team would like to thank Mr. Boyce for his sterling efforts in promoting our site to the astoundingly brilliant members of the Sitepoint Community.

    We would like to inform the forum visitors that for a long period of time Mr. Boyce has taken a great interest in the site and at times has wished to become a part of the SG Team. In recent months this interest has turned to jealousy. This has led to the (so far partial) formation of the site he mentioned earlier.

    Anyway, we are not here to badmouth others .... actually, I think if Mr. Boyce can get away with it so can we.

    Let me put it this way - would you want a website designing by somebody who managed to fit 25 spelling / grammar into a message 311 words long. I leave the mathematics up to you.

    Simon Bond

    enquiries@swottosgrotto.co.uk
    http://www.swottosgrotto.co.uk
    Hotline: 07092 357917
    Last edited by Hierophant; Jan 15, 2002 at 17:35.

  13. #13
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    That was rather out of line and completely unprofessional.

    Back to the question at hand I actually see no problem with subbing out design work to other companies, even that of your own site. The reality is every company has strengths and weaknesses. Personally, my greatest weakness is designing for myself. I can't do it, CAN'T.

    My choices are few: I can labour for dozens of hours, or I can hire another designer I trust to help me out.

    Personally I choose the latter as that frees up my time to do some important stuff. Just because a member of my firm isn't the one doing the finished product doesn't mean it is any less from the heart or showing our potential.

    In reality, even if every site we did was designed by someone else that wouldn't be a problem. Why? Because we always get the job done, and that is what clients are after. Someone who can do the job, do it right, do it on time and provide great service.

    Can I hand code? Yes, but that's irrelevant.
    Can I design? Yes, but that's irrelevant.
    Do I sub work out? Of course, I'd be stupid not to, but it's still irrelevant.

    What is relevant is that every site, every piece of software, every logo, every brochure or business card, every bit of consulting and marketing work is the best we are able to do.
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  14. #14
    I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaack! Fluffykins's Avatar
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    I'm locking this thread at this point. Thanks to those of you who've posted valid replies, i've found it an interesting discussion and hopefully one we can pursue at some other time.

    SitePoint isn't the place to air dirty laundry, or to follow up personal vendettas against individuals or companies. If rboycey and SG Webmaster would care to continue their discussion it'll have to be done privately.

    Ady
    v-technologies - Freelance Goodness.


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