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View Poll Results: Do you believe in God?

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  • Yep, of course

    29 46.03%
  • Nope, why should I

    21 33.33%
  • hmmm, not sure

    13 20.63%
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  1. #26
    Back in Action Winged Spider's Avatar
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    1. Hinduism (100%) Click here for info
    2. Mahayana Buddhism (86%) Click here for info
    3. Jainism (84%) Click here for info
    4. Neo-Pagan (79%) Click here for info

    Some follow paths, some make their own, I fly.


  2. #27
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    Why do people always as 'Do you believe in God?' isn't the proper question 'Do you believe in Gods?'

    I am not knocking anyones right to their own view and I will defend your right to speak them but look at it from my point of view what must there be one. Many cultures around the world present and past believe(d) in mutliple gods.
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  3. #28
    The Legend Indian's Avatar
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    Smile

    1. Hinduism (100%)
    2. Mahayana Buddhism (83%)
    3. Jainism (73%)
    4. Neo-Pagan (70%)
    5. Unitarian Universalism (65%)
    6. New Age (62%)
    7. Scientology (62%)
    8. New Thought (60%)
    9. Sikhism (59%)
    10. Theravada Buddhism (56%)
    11. Liberal Quakers (53%)
    12. Christian Science
    (Church of Christ, Scientist)(50%)
    13. Taoism (50%)

    What's "Liberal Quakers"?
    Last edited by Indian; Jan 15, 2002 at 05:10.
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  4. #29
    SitePoint Wizard Ian Glass's Avatar
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    That quiz was pretty interesting -- I've sometimes wondered how to classify myself, it seems to have to closest answer. I was equally taken by what I wasn't. ;-)

    Indian, to answer you question, Quakers are a western Christian religion that originated in England (right?). Many came to America during colonial time to escape English rule. They're non-violent pacifists and believe very strongly in social activism, I think. Today they're more known for their furniture and they're oatmeal, though. ;-)
    Last edited by Ian Glass; Jan 15, 2002 at 09:01.

  5. #30
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    I am an atheist myself (to the point of being anti-religous). However I took the test for grins. I consider religion to be outdated and primitive. People will always be afraid of the unknowns in life and will always seek to justify the unexplained. I feel that it is that very fear of the unknown that prompts people to create and accept such ludicrous stories of heaven and god.

    1. Atheists and Agnostics (100%)
    2. Secular Humanism (100%)
    3. Unitarian Universalism (90%)
    4. Theravada Buddhism (68%)
    5. Liberal Quakers (66%)
    6. Neo-Pagan (57%)
    7. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (56%)
    8. Reform Judaism (41%)
    9. Sikhism (41%)
    10. Taoism (40%)
    11. Orthodox Quaker (37%)
    12. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (36%)
    13. Bahá'í Faith (35%)
    14. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (35%)
    15. New Age (34%)
    16. Seventh Day Adventist (28%)
    17. Eastern Orthodox (26%)
    18. Islam (26%)
    19. Orthodox Judaism (26%)
    20. Roman Catholic (26%)
    21. Scientology (26%)
    22. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (24%)
    23. New Thought (24%)
    24. Mahayana Buddhism (23%)
    25. Jainism (20%)
    26. Hinduism (16%)
    27. Jehovah's Witness (9%)
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  6. #31
    What? Maelstrom's Avatar
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    How can you be hellbent when hell can't possibly exist
    Maelstrom Personal - Apparition Visions
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  7. #32
    SitePoint Wizard Aes's Avatar
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    1. Secular Humanism (100%)
    2. Atheists and Agnostics (92%)
    3. Unitarian Universalism (90%)
    4. Theravada Buddhism (79%)
    5. Liberal Quakers (74%)
    6. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (63%)
    7. Neo-Pagan (61%)
    8. New Age (49%)
    9. Taoism (49%)
    10. Reform Judaism (47%)
    11. Mahayana Buddhism (46%)
    12. New Thought (42%)
    13. Scientology (42%)
    14. Orthodox Quaker (38%)
    15. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (35%)
    16. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (31%)
    17. Jainism (28%)
    18. Sikhism (26%)
    19. Islam (25%)
    20. Orthodox Judaism (25%)
    21. Bahá'í Faith (23%)
    22. Seventh Day Adventist (22%)
    23. Hinduism (21%)
    24. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (17%)
    25. Eastern Orthodox (15%)
    26. Jehovah's Witness (15%)
    27. Roman Catholic (15%)
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  8. #33
    SitePoint Wizard Ian Glass's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Hellbent
    I am an atheist myself (to the point of being anti-religous). However I took the test for grins. I consider religion to be outdated and primitive. People will always be afraid of the unknowns in life and will always seek to justify the unexplained. I feel that it is that very fear of the unknown that prompts people to create and accept such ludicrous stories of heaven and god.
    So, you're an Orthodox Atheist? :-D

  9. #34
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Maelstrom
    How can you be hellbent when hell can't possibly exist
    The same way a Hamburger contains no ham. It is just a name.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  10. #35
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ian Glass
    So, you're an Orthodox Atheist? :-D
    Thats a strange question Ian and I think more than a bit tongue in cheek. However I will humor you. I do not attend any atheist conventions or socialize with others based soley on religion. So no I am not an "Orthodox Atheist".
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  11. #36
    SitePoint Wizard Ian Glass's Avatar
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    It was partially tongue and cheek, but partially not. I've noticed that many Atheists seem to have their own, somewhat pre-prescribed, system of perceptions. I wonder: can lack of a religion be a faith in and of itself?

    BTW, this wasn't meant to offend anyone, so I hope I didn't. I'm really just curious.

  12. #37
    Back in Action Winged Spider's Avatar
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    Humans genetically have a prediposition to adopt their own ethics, morals, and values. Religon is a natural phenominom that is supposed to happen. It's as much part of being human as sex is. Think of what the United States would be like without Christianity supporting our laws, or any other country. Without a system of beliefs or a belief in a purpose everything falls apart.

    Fact:
    Spiritual people;
    live longer
    are healthier
    are happier
    suffer from less stress

    For example Native Japenese people just get Alsheimers(sp)Why? They lead a very spiritual life.

    Whether you think of your time on this earth as either fufilling your DNA's wishes or acting according to some higher power, it's religon all the same.

    [QUOTE]can lack of a religion be a faith in and of itself?[\QUOTE]

    It's more like a lack of faith can be a religon of itself. True Atheists are mostly male. Why? The male need for control. Becomming a "Atheist" mostly results from a major event of moment in your life turning our not the way you HOPEd for. It's a rejection of what comes naturally. Most Atheists fear the unknown, the unproved, and the wishful, think of religon as "outdated and primative", and don't believe in good or evil. When actually they spend most of their time adhering too a popular religons eithcs and values. An atheist's religeon had no god, but has a defined system of perception, the basis for all religon. It's not what you see, it's how you see it.


  13. #38
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    You must be joking.

    Originally posted by Winged Spider
    Humans genetically have a predisposition to adopt their own ethics, morals, and values. Religion is a natural phenominom that is supposed to happen. It's as much part of being human as sex is. Think of what the United States would be like without Christianity supporting our laws, or any other country. Without a system of beliefs or a belief in a purpose everything falls apart.

    Fact:
    Spiritual people;
    live longer
    are healthier
    are happier
    suffer from less stress

    I would be interested in seeing the case studies that produced these so called "facts". Genetic Predisposition to religion? What nonsense. Religion is learned behavior, much like racism and table manners. I do not believe you have any supporting material to backup your bold claims of everlasting peace and longevity for religious people vs. the non-religious. And if you do I defy you to present here and now. You also seem to have merged religions and beliefs into the same category. While true that religious people have beliefs it is not necessary to be religious in order to have a set of beliefs and or ethics. My ethics and beliefs are influenced as I am sure everyone’s ethics and beliefs are influenced at least in part by societal norms. With large percentages of all the earths population being religious in some form or fashion that means we have all been subjected to these belief systems at least partially. So I agree with you in part that our current society has many laws that align themselves with religious edicts. However I do not believe that one must be religious to have beliefs or purpose. And if you want to get down to it Christianity is notorious for violating it’s professed code of conduct whenever the whim strikes. A couple of examples are The Crusades and The Spanish Inquisition. So what good are these laws if your chosen faith habitually disregards their own rules.

    Religion in general is responsible for more death hatred and suffering than ten thousand Hitler’s would be capable of producing. America recently suffered due to religion in the September eleventh attacks. Once again men killing each other over a god who does not exist. I could go on forever but I think I have made my point clear.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  14. #39
    Back in Action Winged Spider's Avatar
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    I'm laughing

    Here's 5 articles relating to a link between religion and a better life. I could go out and find more if you want me too, because it's a pretty well documented fact.

    http://www.sciencenews.org/20000603/fob8.asp
    http://my.webmd.com/content/article/1728.60239
    http://home.inreach.com/usm/religionlife.html
    http://www.infoaging.org/feat9.html
    http://www.islam-online.net/English/...rticle11.shtml

    This might be outdated but good read on the origins of religion:
    http://www.ets.uidaho.edu/mickelsen/...%20VII%20A.htm

    "Religion is Natural" Resources:
    http://www.iol.ie/~afifi/BICNews/Health/health19.htm
    http://www.parkridgecenter.org/cgi-b...&Relation=2842
    http://www.cosmiverse.com/paranormal11270101.html
    This is a tricky issue that will never be agreed upon by religious and non-religious people. I hope that we can avoid discussions about this issue because they will never end.

    Christianity (in any form) is the worst example of religion to use as an comparative element.
    1. They don't practice their faith, they act the part it. The Bible, the world's best-selling book, is also the world's most shoplifted book. You've already pointed out the Crusades and the Spanish Iquisition.
    (but modern christianity allows for unleashing wrath towards "evil" see below)
    2. Modern Christianity and even Catholosism is very young. Jesus the man didn't write or have anything to do with the current bible. All of you Christians out there would be shocked to read what the real bible was like. Modern Christianity (in any form) was created by the educated elite (government). The teachings of Christianity and Mind Control Techniques are very similar.
    3. Christianity is not a major religion if you don't count the actors of the faith.

    But is there an example of Buddism or Islamic people causing a conflit? The recent events are not the voice of Islam but the voice of radicals who deviate from their relegious practises. See included link for the real islamic view on violence. The Terrorists who bombed us are no different than the "Peacekeepers" that bomb them. A major concept of all major and minor religions is "Turn the other cheek". Basically all forms of religion count on "Karma" to work for them, violence is not neccesary to any true believer. Religion "in general" does not promote war or killing.

    Related Link: http://www.unification.net/ws/theme145.htm

    If you don't believe in a higher purpose of have faith why not just kill yourself right now? What's the point of living? Does this corrupt, unjust, harsh, difficult, prejudice and beligerant world suit you? Having hope or faith in something better classifies as a religon. Whether you believe that the natural cycles or chaos, life, and death will bring you fortune or you believe in a fictional being of omnipitant power deals your cards, it's still a belief in a higher system that can't be explained or defined.

    Your point isn't clear, I want to hear more. I'm not a man to disregard your statements because my belief system system is different. For all I really know my existance means nothing, and all I am is a helix of DNA.


  15. #40
    SitePoint Wizard Ian Glass's Avatar
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    I'd wish that everyone should be respectful of others opinions and frame their words more carefully. The reason I asked whether lack of a formalized belief could be a religion is because I am truly curious in your opinions, not because I wish to read incendiary rhetoric. Everyone's personal belief structure is very important to him or her. Please be mindful and respectful of that. Thank You.

  16. #41
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    Creator

    You can trace the universe down to the first atom but then how did that get there?
    Wavelan

  17. #42
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I got this:

    1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
    2. Secular Humanism (94%)
    3. Theravada Buddhism (86%)
    4. Liberal Quakers (79%)
    5. Atheists and Agnostics (75%)

    I'm a little surprised, as I consider myself a devout atheist, to the point of being anti-religion. I think that everything that can be explained can be explained by science, and that there are no supernatural powers.

    Well, whatever.

    I can tell this will turn into an interesting conversation. These religious ones always do.

  18. #43
    SitePoint Addict AbelaJohnB's Avatar
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    Ok, here is my score:


    1. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (100%)
    2. Eastern Orthodox (99%)
    3. Orthodox Quaker (99%)
    4. Roman Catholic (99%)
    5. Seventh Day Adventist (99%)
    6. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (70%)
    7. Hinduism (59%)
    8. Orthodox Judaism (57%)
    9. Jehovah's Witness (53%)
    10. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (50%)



    I would also like to point you to a short article I just wrote about this little web site: Read It Here!


    I scored almost exactly how I thought I would (after 6 years in Christian Ministry... 4 years as a youth pastor, 2 years in Christian Missions), however what spured me to write the little article was their method of rating/scaling. Odd, to say the least!


    Anyway, have a good day.
    John B. Abela
    www.JohnAbela.Com

  19. #44
    Non-Member mmi's Avatar
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    hmm...

    so the Presbyterian, Methodist and Lutheran churches are anti-Christian fronts for those heathen butchers at Planned Parenthood, eh? - thanks for the heads up, John! - I never realized...

    and what are those HOMOSEXUALS doin' behind the pulpit? - or do I even wanna know? - eeeuuuu!!!

  20. #45
    Non-Member mmi's Avatar
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    Unhappy rudely sarcastic

    mmy comment in the above post is entirely inappropriate and I'd like to sincerely apologize for it - I've tried to delete it, but just get a blank page when I click on "edit"

    sorry all

  21. #46
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    This is an excellent article.

    http://home.talkcity.com/librarydr/eztoamuse/
    The Inductive Argument

    Against the Existence of God





    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    "Induction: (noun) The inference of a generalized conclusion from particular instances." Webster's Dictionary.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Introduction:

    Deductive logic argues from premises to a conclusion. If all birds have feathers, and, if all that has feathers, flies, then all birds fly.

    A Deductive argument is said to be "valid" if its premises are all true, and the conclusion logically follows from the premises. Its conclusion must necessarily be true.

    Inductive logic is different. You reach generalized conclusions from specific premises. If you heat water at sea level to 212 degrees Fahrenheit, over and over, it will boil. Do this thousands of times, and you may inductively conclude that water boils at 212 degrees at sea level.

    An inductive argument yields a result that is likely. The degree of probability of the conclusion depends on the validity of the specific premises from which the conclusion is derived.

    Practically all scientific knowledge is inductively derived. All scientific experimentation is a variety of inductive logic. When a statement about observable phenomenon is shown to be invariable, that is known as a "Law", in science. The Laws of Science are derived from many verifiable observations of specific instances. For example, if you experiment with enough gases, changing their pressures, volumes, and temperatures, while observing the relationships between the three variables, you inductively come up with Boyle's Law: The volume of a gas at constant temperature varies inversely to the pressure applied to the gas.

    It is inductive logic by which most atheists have concluded there is no god.



    Necessary Truths for God-Belief:

    These are the things that one must believe, in order to believe in a god. The negation of any one of them disproves a god, or conversely, proving the opposites of these premises disproves a god.

    I refer here to generic Christianity; for particular sub-cults and other religions, adjust the premises accordingly.



    The Universe was Created.
    This is the common definition of a God, a "creator of the universe." Unless "god" created the universe, it is just a creature that lives within it, however powerful and long lived it must be.

    A Supernatural Realm Exists.
    This is the location of Heaven, Hell, and God himself.



    A Soul Exists that Survives Death
    Without an immortal soul, the existence of a god is a purely moot concept.



    4. Prayer Accomplishes Results

    Prayer, miracles and other divine interventions are the earthly, non-supernatural effect of a god's existence.

    Necessary Truths for Atheism:

    The Universe is the Result of Natural Forces
    This is a necessary result of a universe without a god. All of its activities, changes, and behaviors must be the result of natural, non-supernatural forces operating within it.

    There is No Supernatural Realm
    This is another necessary conclusion for the Atheist. The universe must only be the combinations of matter and energy that manifest themselves physically. There must be no magical realm with magical beings in it.

    There is No Soul that Survives Death
    If there is no supernatural realm, then there are no invisible creatures that live in it after death. (Sorry, I'm waxing deductive).

    Prayer is Not Effective
    If there is no god, no supernatural realm, then words cannot have a magical effect on the physical world.



    Religion is the Product of Primitive Minds Trying to Explain the Unknown
    As opposed to Divine Revelation.



    The "Law of No Gods"

    The simple fact is that all of a human's experience points to the premises of the atheist, and denies the premises of the Believer.

    For example, all known information about the physical world shows that it is the product of physical forces. There is no credible evidence showing otherwise. Now, if you don't understand where the universe "came from", you are assuming the universe "came from" somewhere. The Atheist makes no such assumptions. Why is it so easy to imagine the universe existing infinitely into the future (where it may change from time to time) but so difficult to imagine it has existed for an infinite amount of time into the past (where it may have changed from time to time)?

    That the universe is eternal could be inferred from the 1st Law of Thermodynamics, but there I go, waxing deductively again. However, since the 1st Law of Thermodynamics is derived inductively (from an infinite number of observations of matter and energy failing to be created or destroyed), the argument retains its inductive nature.

    The Atheist has never seen matter created nor destroyed. He has seen nothing about the world around him which would lead him to infer there is anything other than a physical world, operating from physical causes. From this, the Atheist generalizes "The Law of Physical Causation."

    The Atheist has never seen anything which would lead him to believe any "supernatural realm" exists. Nothing is known, historically, scientifically or otherwise which would lead a reasonable person to infer the existence of a supernatural realm. The totality of one's life experiences are devoid of evidence of a heaven, a hell, or anything similar. This undisputed evidence suggests "The Law of Physical Universe."

    Nor is there a soul. Nothing in science, medicine, or anywhere else suggests that life is anything other than physical processes in operation. From this, we conclude the "Law of a Physical Body."

    Prayer is nothing but wishing. Christians have a variety of excuses to explain why prayer doesn't work ("God works in mysterious ways", etc.). The only verifiable fact is that prayer is no more effective than talking to the wall. From these undisputed facts, we can conclude "The Law of the Failure of Prayer."

    Nothing about the bible, nor any other holy text, has anything in it which remotely suggests supernatural authorship. On the contrary, a careful reading of the bible shows it is a collection of ancient folktales, with the characteristics common of the beliefs of the people who wrote them. For example, Jesus has the typical beliefs of an ancient Hebrew, that the flood story happened, the stars might fall from the sky, demons cause illness, and the like. From this, the Atheist induces "The Law of Human Authorship of Religious Documents."

    All these "Laws" are based on undisputed, verifiable observations. Show the Atheist credible evidence otherwise; there isn't any. You can say the earth "must" have been created, that it "must" have had a beginning. This is just wishful thinking, and you're assuming your conclusion, that there must have been a creator. You can say there "must" be a heaven, but that's only your wishful thinking that a place of eternal reward exists. There is no credible evidence of a heaven. Likewise, it is easily verifiable that prayer is meaningless.

    The Bible thus becomes the first and last stand of the resolute Believer. Show me something in the Bible which rings of divine authorship; there isn't any. It's all folktales, and unlikely ones at that. Some parts of the bible directly conflict with known science (the flood story, the whale story, the sun stopping in the sky, etc.). Show me something Jesus said, which rings of his own personal divinity; there isn't anything there, either. Jesus' teachings are replete with primitive science (demonic etiology of disease) and primitive morals (all you have to do is believe, and you go to heaven).



    Typical Christian Objections:

    I'm not going to debate the merits of creationism vs. evolution here; I've done that elsewhere. Likewise, with my comments about the human soul, and the bible.

    Christians tell me, "It's a matter of Faith." That doesn't change the undisputed nature of the observations which lead one to believe that the universe is a purely natural thing, humans are purely natural beings, and things happen for purely natural reasons.

    Christians say, "You can't prove there is no god." Well, that's confusing deductive logic with inductive logic. Does the scientist "prove" Boyle's Law? No, he shows it by verifiable observations.

    Christians (mostly Catholics here) say, "Evolution doesn't disprove a god. Evolution is just God's way of doing things." Do you have any evidence of this? Any evidence that a god uses any of the laws of physics or science for His own purposes? If not, you're just wishing there was a god.

    Or, "who made the laws of science, and the universe?" This is usually the 14 y.o. Sunday school student who isn't brilliant enough to realize he is assuming somebody made these laws (as if they are passed like Holy Statutes in some divine legislature), and thus that his argument is circular.



    Pascal's Wager

    Christians say, "What have you to gain by not believing in a god? If you're wrong, you go to hell." That's Pascal's Wager. The problem with Pascal's reasoning is that it assumes that it is equally likely a god either exists or doesn't exist. This may have been reasonable in 1658, when Pascal didn't know if the moon was made of cheese. Scientific knowledge and medical knowledge was almost non-existent in those days. Pascal couldn't say how a mountain was made, let alone the universe. Maybe demons caused illness; the germ theory of disease wasn't discovered until the next century. It might have been a reasonable wager for Pascal, but it is no longer reasonable, in the light of existing scientific knowledge.

    Christians should be saying, "I have evidence of a god." They don't, because there isn't any.





    Conclusion: The Law of Atheism.


    Maybe the common atheist doesn't reason it out this formally, but the methods are the same. Atheists have seen nothing in their lives which leads them to believe a god really exists. Instead, they've seen the bad science of creationists, or maybe they just reject any story with a talking snake as inherently incredible. They've seen Christians claim their prayers were answered, and seen Christians pray for loved ones who die anyway. They've seen people interpret the Bible for their own purposes, while ignoring that it is an obvious fable, completely with talking animals, appropriate only for teaching morals to young children.

    The universe is a natural thing, and it operates by natural laws. Prayer is nothing, the soul doesn't exist, and all religions are the product of the wishful thinking of primitive minds. From that, we conclude Atheism. There are no gods. There never were any gods. That conclusion is consistent with every personal observation, every piece of scientific knowledge, all medical knowledge, and the history of religion. Based on countless observations, verifiable to anyone, and undisputed by anything credible, Atheism is as valid as any Law of Science.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  22. #47
    SitePoint Wizard Aes's Avatar
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    Re: rudely sarcastic

    Originally posted by mmi
    mmy comment in the above post is entirely inappropriate and I'd like to sincerely apologize for it - I've tried to delete it, but just get a blank page when I click on "edit"

    sorry all
    mmi, thanks for apologizing. I was considering writing a fervent response; but I had to attend a robotics meeting and didn't get to earlier. Thanks for apologizing though.

    As a side note, Wayne's in the process of fixing the post editing problem -- should be working soon.
    Colin Anderson
    Ambition is a poor excuse for those without
    sense enough to be lazy.

  23. #48
    What? Maelstrom's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ian Glass
    It was partially tongue and cheek, but partially not. I've noticed that many Atheists seem to have their own, somewhat pre-prescribed, system of perceptions. I wonder: can lack of a religion be a faith in and of itself?

    BTW, this wasn't meant to offend anyone, so I hope I didn't. I'm really just curious.
    It has been called that before. Especially Agnostics.
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  24. #49
    What? Maelstrom's Avatar
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    Re: Creator

    Originally posted by Wavelan
    You can trace the universe down to the first atom but then how did that get there?
    Whats wrong with raw infinity. Why can't it always have been there ??
    Maelstrom Personal - Apparition Visions
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  25. #50
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    1. Secular Humanism (100%)
    2. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
    3. Theravada Buddhism (98%)
    4. Neo-Pagan (87%)
    5. Atheists and Agnostics (85%)
    6. Liberal Quakers (81%)
    7. Reform Judaism (80%)

    Ooh, Theravada...

    You know that song that goes ooh, barracuda? Well this is ooh, Theravada.

    It's funny. Laugh.



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