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  1. #76
    padawan silver trophybronze trophy markbrown4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booler View Post
    I've never used WP. Can it be used on existing websites?
    No, Wordpress(like the other CMS' here I think) don't take existing pages and make them editable, they are pieces of software that have a database to store the content in

  2. #77
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    I go with drupal

  3. #78
    SitePoint Guru Webinsane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sree06 View Post
    I go with drupal

    markbrown4 said everything in one sentence. There are unlimited number of cms programs that have their own "ecosystem" where you have to abide by their rules. Problems is what to do when you create website and your client asks if you can modify 50 pages so he and his employees can edit content.
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  4. #79
    SitePoint Zealot
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    Problems is what to do when you create website and your client asks if you can modify 50 pages so he and his employees can edit content.
    Exactly! That is a problem that I am constantly faced with. Most of my clients don't need a content management system. All they need is a WYSIWYG online editor that allows them to edit defined content areas on some pages. I have tried several of these but I always encounter problems. I tell you, the first company to market this will be quids in!

  5. #80
    SitePoint Guru Webinsane's Avatar
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    That is why we created Instant Update:

    http://cubescripts.com/update-website-browser.php


    I know this is advertising but it is also excellent source for this topic. I did not encounter anything like this on the market.
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  6. #81
    SitePoint Addict longroad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booler View Post
    Exactly! That is a problem that I am constantly faced with. Most of my clients don't need a content management system. All they need is a WYSIWYG online editor that allows them to edit defined content areas on some pages. I have tried several of these but I always encounter problems. I tell you, the first company to market this will be quids in!
    There are lots of companies that do that. I used to work for a web design company that had their own in house CMS. Only their clients can use it.
    Many companies work with that sort of software, they just dont release it to the public.

    For a general CMS, you cant go past Wordpress for ease of use. Drupal, Joomla and the like have a steeper learning curve.

  7. #82
    SitePoint Addict webaddictz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barleytwist View Post
    I am totally confused about which CMS method to use for a new site I want.

    ...

    Any ideas where I should start (e.g. best client or server CMS)
    http://www.cmsmadesimple.org. That does it for me.

  8. #83
    SitePoint Enthusiast jezzz's Avatar
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    Have u ever used Wordpress
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  9. #84
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    I am surprised nobody came up with Website Baker yet. This is a great free, open source CMS that you can use with new or (with a wee bit of tweaking) existing sites. There is a great online community, and there are many mdules and snippets available. The admin interface is very user friendly, the way it works and is structured is just what any client expects. I used the cms on a large number of sites, both small and corporate ones. My clients (typical office users, that are only familiar with Word and Outlook etc) did not need more than some 10 to 20 minutes instruction by phone, to be able to work with it.

    www.websitebaker.com

    Some sites I built with Website Baker (sorry, all Dutch, but you can see the type of sites) are:
    www.bruschke.nl
    www.nvpit.nl
    www.kerncompany.nl
    www.bereikbaarheid.nl

    I would suggest to stay away from Joomla, because the way it works and the admin interface will make you rip your teeth out in despair, the longer you work with it. It first looks fine and logical, but it soon turns out to be a piece of junk from a webdesign and admin usability point of view after some time. It may be powerful, but it is very, very unfriendly for novice and intermediate cms users.

    I also don't quite understand people saying blog type scripts like WordPress are fine. They are great for blogs, news sites, and other chronological types of sites, but they are not meant for general cms use which require hierarchical structuring of sections and pages.
    Regards,
    Jurgen Nijhuis
    Argos Media (Dutch)

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomovuk View Post
    TI did not encounter anything like this on the market.
    If we're talking about giving users the ability to edit existing website files then there are a number of solutions I've come across:

  11. #86
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    Using CMS for the last 5 years, here is my recommendations:

    * always use a CMS - do not build from scratch no matter how "simple" your project looks like.
    Why? Because "the appetite comes with eating", as they say.
    Today you need only some "simple" features. What about tomorrow, though (especially if you make this for someone else)?
    The users (being it a business or a community) tend to ask for more and more and more ...
    So do install a powerfull CMS - just expose only the features you need today.
    But tomorrow it will be just a click of a mouse to enable the newly requested feature they ask you for.

    * installing and customizing a CMS with its built-in administrative interface is way way much easier than learning PHP/MySQL. In fact, you don't need to know anyhting about those. You don't even need to know what a "database" is.
    There is a lot of considerations and wisdom behind even the simpliest CMS - it is not just "learn PHP/MySQL and do it!"
    Do you know what "data sanitazing" is? Are you preventing "SQL injections"? Are you filtering mail forms input to prevent "email injection"?
    When you don't know PHP/MySQL (or any other script language and database), the chances are you don't have the slightest idea what I am talking about, or no idea how to program this things.
    And don't get me wrong - this is not meant to insult your inteligence. It is just to point that things are complex and big.

    * use a well known CMS
    It has a higher user base - more experience, more templates, more 3rd party modules (plugins). If you need a functionality tomorrow, most probably someone has already created it and is offering it available (most of the time - for free)


    * which CMS to use?
    Check the features. Test it. Most important question is does it have all the functionality you are looking for?
    Most CMS-es have the basic functions: add content, re-position the page elements (e.g. menus); consistent design; CSS.
    But do you thinkyou might need to add a forum in the future, for example? What if you want the forum to be integrated "inside" the CMS frame- because some CMS-es don't have such forums?
    What if you need even more - CMS and forum integration at account level (a "single sign on" on both)?

    * what if you may need to provide different content to the different users (e.g. one for visitors and another for members/subscribers)? Or even more - you need to provide different content for different users/groups of users?

    CMS-es I have used:

    - PostNuke - one of the first CMS-es, not so popular anymore, but having functionality not matched by Joomla or Wordpress. I am running a site with 36'000+ users (!!!), with 1200 unique visitors per day.
    It has a very comprehensive permissions system no other CMS offers - you can specify permissions on every piece of the site (a particular menu; a particular line in a menu even!). Thus I can design sites with different views/fuinctionality for various user groups

    - Joomla - started using it recently. Good design; much more user-friendly and consistent administrator interface; much more popular (probably most popular one); apart from that I am not impressed by anything else - nothing I haven't seen in PostNuke.
    Localization is a problem - the code is not separated from the captions.

    - Wordpress - this is a blog-oriented CMS. You can use it as for general CMS purposes, but you will be missing some functionality, as well as you will have some more you will not want, but you cannot disable.
    One problem with Wordpress is the localizationb: the code is not fully separated from the captions (as it is with PostNuke). In order to get Wordpress running with *all* captions in Bulgarian, for example, you still have to edit php files (no matter it offers a nice interface to do that).
    Last edited by webcho; Jan 26, 2007 at 22:54.

  12. #87
    SitePoint Guru Webinsane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piper24k View Post
    If we're talking about giving users the ability to edit existing website files then there are a number of solutions I've come across:

    Cpanel is unprofessional for any web designer who wants to offer easy manage for clients.

    WebEdit is just too expensive for CMS editor and it has same features as our Instant Update. $180 is bit too much.

    EditWrx just lacks to show me live demo. I see the link I go there and nothing. Plus they mentioned cgi...our script is php/mysql.


    And most importantly none of these can compete with time needed to install and run Instant Update. Plus on top of all it is cheap...
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomovuk View Post
    Cpanel is unprofessional for any web designer who wants to offer easy manage for clients.
    This may be one view, but to many, the cPanel file editor makes it the best solution to offering WYSWYG editing capabilities. If the host has cPanel then no other logins for the user are required and no additional systems need maintenance. For the user logging into cPanel anyway, the file editor is just a few clicks away.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomovuk View Post
    WebEdit is just too expensive for CMS editor and it has same features as our Instant Update. $180 is bit too much.
    This might be your opinion, but $180 isn't too expensive for everyone. Besides, licenses drop to $69 each after the first licence plus if you ask nicely or use one of their promotions you can get a discount.

    Systems shouldn't be judged solely on their initial purchase price. There's a lot more to an individual's situation than the cost of providing a solution e.g. ease of use.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomovuk View Post
    EditWrx just lacks to show me live demo. I see the link I go there and nothing. Plus they mentioned cgi...our script is php/mysql.
    The demo worked fine for me. Price-wise, it's only $19 for a single domain and $69 for unlimited domains. This makes it cheap enough for a host to offer it for free.

    cgi/php/mysql... In my experience, the end user doesn't care about the technology. However, I've installed EditWrx for a client who only had cgi available.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomovuk View Post
    And most importantly none of these can compete with time needed to install and run Instant Update. Plus on top of all it is cheap...
    You can't beat no installation time for the cPanel file editor! I've not used WebEdit, but all of their scripts I've tried install very quickly and easily. EditWrx installs in 5 minutes.

    Cost isn't the primary factor for everyone. Almost everyone I've dealt with wants the right solution and cost is a factor, but people have been known to spend more in order to meet their requirements.

    I'm not knocking your product nor am I saying that there's a better alternative to it for everyone. The point is that there are other solutions available for people to consider.

  14. #89
    SitePoint Guru Webinsane's Avatar
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    Maybe we should increase the price
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  15. #90
    SitePoint Enthusiast rusagar's Avatar
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    Joomla is my first choice for cms sites
    joomla.org

  16. #91
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    I've been programming in C/C++ for about 8-9 years now, and php/mysql for just over a year, and I built my own CMS before I even knew what CMS was. I can see the benefits of using these CMS's you've listed, because my CMS can only add news posts, gig dates, and photo's to a gallery, it's very simple, and only fairly secure.

    However, If, for example, I was making an online shop website for a customer, I'd imagine they'd want the ability to add news posts, blog entry's, change page content (not layout), and they'd need to be able to add/delete products from their catalog database as well as a means to edit/view the customer database. To me, building my own CMS for this purpose seems more logical to me. The idea of installing another CMS to handle my catalog/customer database seems like an overkill. I'd just code a secure admin panel to do this.

    But If I was making a more "blog-like", personal or community website I'd probably go for another CMS.
    For example, my current "news posting" CMS only allows you to add text and basic html, if you want an image in your news, u'd have to upload the image via ftp, then put an img tag in the text. So here is where it get's complicated because I'd need to code an image managment CMS tool so that ppl dont have to learn ftp. So in this case I'd turn to another CMS. But I imagine in a lot of cases, simple CMS is all a client needs, and I dunno, a simple, custom made integrated CMS seems like the better choice in a lot of cases for me.


    But i must admit, the idea of using these CMS's you've listed doesn't appeal to me..I can see their uses, but it's probably because I've never used one.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by christopherscott View Post
    Open Source CMS Lets you look at different content management systems, I use them regularly for different clients who need different CMS's.

    Yeah very nice CMS thanks ! I try it !

  18. #93
    SitePoint Guru rageh's Avatar
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    Give a try Mod X

    I have been following this discussion with keen interest and so far I can see why Wordpress is being slagged off for leaning toward blog publishing but its popularity means more and more plug-ins being developed, some of which capable of turning the it into small-scale CMS.

    Drupal and Joomle are overkill to most webistes, let's face it. However, for me Mod X may be the next big thing to hit the web development community.
    ------------------

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by rageh View Post
    I have been following this discussion with keen interest and so far I can see why Wordpress is being slagged off for leaning toward blog publishing but its popularity means more and more plug-ins being developed, some of which capable of turning the it into small-scale CMS.

    Drupal and Joomle are overkill to most webistes, let's face it. However, for me Mod X may be the next big thing to hit the web development community.
    Do you mean a feature overkill, or a performance one?
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  20. #95
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    Joomla or Durpal?

    For running a small personal site and adding articles and new pages, would you guys recommend Joomla or Durpal? Everyone here seems to like Durpal but a developer friend is telling me Joomla.

  21. #96
    padawan silver trophybronze trophy markbrown4's Avatar
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    For running a small personal site and adding articles and new pages
    From most who have used both I hear Joomla recommended. I however would recommend Wordpress because it will do what you are wanting and has the largest support base and active community to help you get acquainted with it.

  22. #97
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    I think Marks recommendation is good unless your are more of a developer in which case Joola

  23. #98
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    After posting last week in this thread, and slating WordPress as a CMS, I have since downloaded it to play around a bit. With the developer resources available on the WordPress site, it was a fairly straightforward process to make WordPress behave like a reasonable small scale CMS including features like password protected pages, child page lists & customizable menus (the latter two both requiring some documented mods). It is certainly not a competitor to Mambo, etc but then it does not seem to be the intention. With some basic development work to customize it, it can fill the boots of a small site CMS and provide a good foundation on which to build/customize your own system. So, I stand a little corrected, but must point out that out of the box, it is just a blogging tool... Overall opinion? Worth a go if you have some basic PHP/HTML awareness.
    Last edited by Emj; Jan 29, 2007 at 06:35. Reason: Added a summary
    Design is an art... Then someone releases a new browser...

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  24. #99
    Web developer Carl's Avatar
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    If you like Wordpresses code and architecture but want to build a community B2evolution is a better choice. B2evolution is a another CMS derived from the original B2 code base which is where Wordpress comes from. But it is a multiple user and blog sytem that can be built into a community site more easily than Wordpress.

  25. #100
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    Just wondering if there's any good CMS/PHP script which could solve my little problem.
    I've created a site for my dad and since he's not too familiar with computers, Internet and everything I need to add something which makes it simple for him to add/edit the content.

    Basically it's just about 2-3 pages. For example the news page and a "today's meal" page(restaurant site).

    I do not know PHP and unfortunately I do not have time to learn it at the moment.

    What would you recommend for a "simple" thing like this one?

    Thanks in advance,


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