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  1. #1
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Sorry, but you can't convince me that FrontPage isn't a useful tool...

    Admittedly: FrontPage Extensions, Themes, and Shared Borders should be avoided like the plague...but what's wrong with using it for table creation and overall site layout? I've created more sites that I can count in FP that load fine, are NOT bulked up with useless code, and that look good too.

    FrontPage is a major time saver for me.



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  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I recieved FrontPage 2000 BETA in the mail about a year and a half ago. Then I ordered the FrontPage 2000 trial - good for 45 days.

    Not bad for being free, but I like Dreamweaver a LOT more.

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  3. #3
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    Does anyone know where I can download a trial or the full version of FrontPage?

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  4. #4
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Right through the gates of hell!

    Seriously though I don't think microsoft offers a "Free trial" on any of its office suite. But do yourself a favor and DON'T get frontpage anyways. Code using textpad or cutehtml or if you absolutely MUST use a wysiwyg editor use Dreamweaver, someone who isn't baised where the browser is concerned.

    Chris

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    Hi
    The only place I have seen a legal trial of FP2000 is at http://www.microsoft.com/frontpage/trial/default.htm
    You must pay 6-7 dollars and they ship it to you.

    I have recently switched from html editors(siteaid, homesite and wb composer and front page express to FrontPage 2000 and I am glad There are lots of features that cut down on coding time, there is an html editor and previewer within the programing enviornment. All kind of forms and hover buttons switches, etc are already preprogrammed..just press a few buttons and presto. I have never used dreamweaver but FP2000 supports the whole site you are working on....all the files are right there. it checks links navigations, if you send a file to a different folder it changes all the links to that file automatically. These are just some of the features I like there are lots more. And by just changing the htm to html (which doesn't affect the file) you don t have to worry about uploading to a host that doesn't have Front Page extensions.

    I think that the tools you use to create a web site are an individual choice..try a few and find the ones you like best, whether you end up liking or disliking front page..at least you will know a little about using it.
    Hope you find The frontpage link useful.
    Scarlet

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  6. #6
    SitePoint Evangelist Timothy's Avatar
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    I think FP 2000 is good for designing, but the themes and extensions and stuff are useless and mess things up.

    Overall FP isn't bad, you just have to do a little code cleaning sometimes...


    Timothy

  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard
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    FrontPage is great - Dreamweaver is better.

    Dreamweaver can do so much more than FP, so I like DW much more.

    FrontPage is still a great editor, as most of Microsoft's products are.

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    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    Sorry I have to spoil your Anti-FrontPage party, but I think that FP 2000 is the BEST tool if you work with tables. Ok, it inserts some useless code, but you can change that. There is somewhere an option 'Don't change code' or something like that. I've used FP for all my sites. The last one I created with it was the redesign of freesources.net and it loaded fine in ALL browsers (even NS 6.0) and was diplayed correctly in all resolutions... So get off the back of MicroSoft.

    I have Dreamweaver 3, NetObjects Fusion, 1st Page 2000 and several other tools on my harddrive and I think FP 2000 is the best and the fastest.

    I once got a trial with a CD from an ISP.

    Johanns Christophe

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  9. #9
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    Freesources, that is totally your opinion. And it is probably right. I downloaded the 30 day trial of DW, and I didn't like it at all, so the next day I deleted it. I do have 1st Page 2000, and it is all I need right now. But if FP 2000 created the design for Fresources, then maybe I really do need to get FP! Well, thanks everyone for the comments!

  10. #10
    SitePoint Wizard
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    FrontPage is really easy to learn, and I agree - The easiest to use tables with.

    Dreamweaver takes time to get used to, and time to learn how to get around. FrontPage may seem more straightforward at times, but Dreamweaver is ultimately the most powerful editor there is.

    I have FrontPage 2000, Dreamweaver 3, 1stPage 2000, TextPad, NetObjects Fusion 3.0, 4.0, and 5.0, FrontPage Express and AceEdit, and Dreamweaver 2.

    Often I throw up FrontPage express for simple HTML code and working with tables.

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  11. #11
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    My site is totally screwed up from using FP 2000 to create it - IT HATES NETSCAPE. I did the "compatibility" thing too but with Netscape it's missing half the text - thanks to the bizarre way it uses CSS.

    I'm building a new site now and NOT using Frontpage 2000 - too bad too cause it's so easy in FP 2000.

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  12. #12
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    Frontpage is by far the best, except for that netscape issue. I just slapped a 'best viewed in IE' icon on my page.

  13. #13
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    SMALL CORRECTION
    NETSCAPE HATES FP2000

    CJ

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    Oh wow....so surprised to see all the negative comments for FP2000, I love it.

    If you have Windows 98, you should have the free version on our PC. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles but it works. :-)

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    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    Hey, you say FP comes with Win98, well, where is it? How do I get to it? I have Win98!

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    ********* Evangelist
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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>
    Originally posted by TWTCommish:
    ...what's wrong with using it for table creation and overall site layout? I've created more sites that I can count in FP that load fine, are NOT bulked up with useless code, and that look good too.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Dreamweaver can do a much better job with table creation and site layout... it allows much more customization and often produces higher quality designs as a result (you've got to know how to design a decent looking site too! )
    Just give Dreamweaver a try if you haven't already... it is loaded with features and doesn't screw with the code like FP does.

  17. #17
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    Themes, Extentions, and all that other crap is useless. The themes just make your page look really crappy (uh, the graphics!), and I think FTP programs are easier then the extentions.

    Overall I hate FP. If you know HTML then there is no reason to use it. Makes things faster? Tables? Then get a GOOD WYSIWYG editor for that. Not something that you have to clean up after.

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  18. #18
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    Hello,

    It seems everyone thinks he's so professional and maybe some are. How would you feel as beginner, as complete newbie and you would get DW? You would feel like an idiot. FP2000 gives access to web authoring to newbies AND professionals.

    The themes, extensions, etc. are for those people who are new to web authoring. I never use them... After a period of time these people will see that those extensions are not everything and they'll swap to CGI.

    And most people have already worked with Microsoft Word, and other Office programs. This way they are common with the interface of FP2000. DW3 has a totally different approuch. It also doesn't look like Flash4... Although it is something complete different I think they should have a common approach.

    Afterall It doesn't matter if you work with NotePad , DreamWeaver or FrontPage. If you ain't got the talent and the creative mind, you won't get far, nor with DreamWeaver nor with FP2000.

    FP2000 covers all needs (except SSI, but that's not hard to insert in the html) of a newbie and professional web designer. Dreamweaver does too, but it does not meet the needs of those 'newbies'.

    Christophe Johanns
    HEAVY FRONTPAGE FAN http://freesources.net -&gt; made with FP2000 http://webmastercj.com -&gt; made with FP2000

    ps: the 'free' version is the FrontPage Express... You can open it by going to the 'Internet' group in your start menu, choosing 'Internet Explorer' and than FrontPage Express.

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  19. #19
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    And Justin:
    FP Extension are NOT the same as FTP. FrontPage has its own program to upload files. This is not as advanced as an FTP program but MUCH EASIER for newbies.

    Extensions are like CGI: They handle information.

    Chrsitophe

    ps: Justin, if you would take the time to give FP a chance (what you did not do, as I see)

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  20. #20
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    FrontPage rarely produces junky code that I need to edit. What it DOES do for me is create tables and site layouts quickly, saving me a lot of time...I got myself a free copy of FrontPage 98 a long time ago and sprung for the 2K upgrade...so being in my position it made no sense to go after Dreamweaver instead...

    My sites load fine, look fine, and work in all browsers...and I know HTML, so there's no problem...you don't like FrontPage? No problem...but please don't act as if it's ridiculous for some people too.



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  21. #21
    SitePoint Wizard
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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>Originally posted by Justin S:
    Themes, Extentions, and all that other crap is useless. The themes just make your page look really crappy (uh, the graphics!), and I think FTP programs are easier then the extentions.

    Overall I hate FP. If you know HTML then there is no reason to use it. Makes things faster? Tables? Then get a GOOD WYSIWYG editor for that. Not something that you have to clean up after.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    I agree with this - to some degree.

    If you use themes, you are most likely not a professional web developer. If you are not a professional web developer, then why would you care about cross compatibility, etc? Themes were made to make it easier for the newer of us.

    Now, I don't use FP or really like it. I used to use it, but that was before I fell in love with dreamweaver.

    FP doesn't add junk to your code until you begin messing with Themes, shared borders, and other automated things. You don't have to clean up after it, unless you are sloppy with it.

    Not that I like FrontPage or anything, but I thought I should correct you where you are wrong.

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  22. #22
    SitePoint Zealot Lars's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>Originally posted by freesources:
    Sorry I have to spoil your Anti-FrontPage party, but I think that FP 2000 is the BEST tool if you work with tables. Ok, it inserts some useless code, but you can change that. There is somewhere an option 'Don't change code' or something like that. I've used FP for all my sites. The last one I created with it was the redesign of freesources.net and it loaded fine in ALL browsers (even NS 6.0) and was diplayed correctly in all resolutions... So get off the back of MicroSoft.

    I have Dreamweaver 3, NetObjects Fusion, 1st Page 2000 and several other tools on my harddrive and I think FP 2000 is the best and the fastest.

    I once got a trial with a CD from an ISP.

    Johanns Christophe

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Can you please tell me where to toggle that, so that I can design my pages without mopping up the sloppy MS coding?


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  23. #23
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    I have to check that first...look in the 'help' file....
    and just don't use WebBot things like extensions. It doesn't add crap than...

    And about which 'crap' code are you talking? Tell me...

    Christophe

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  24. #24
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Christophe is right...don't use Themes, Extensions or Shared Borders...but DO use it for table creation.

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    Chris Bowyer
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  25. #25
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    This will really cause an uproar around here..

    I have designed several professional sites and I find Dreamweaver's disjointed interface a real pain. It detracts from developing sites having all those windows open from palettes, tools and libraries, then your actual document and the little tag dialog boxes. Its too bad because its cross-platform capabilities are good.

    Frontpage 2000's interface is much better with sliding toolbars and collapsible windows, there is a lot more space for working. I don't use Frontpage 2000, except for quick site management no and then, but do consider its interface more superior to Dreamweaver's.

    The fact of the matter is that more Professional designers use Homesite over any other program. Homesite has a top-notch interface and allows you to get your work done quickly and efficiently. That is probably one of the reasons it is bundled with Dreamweaver because they figure once the bells and whistles wear off people will want to get some real work done.

    The only other program that I have seen that comes close to fitting my needs is HotDog Professional though I have yet to try this program.

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