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View Poll Results: Is it safe to say "AJAX or nothing"?

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  • Yes

    4 14.81%
  • No

    23 85.19%
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Thread: AJAX Or Nothing

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuxidomasx View Post
    yea, and on an unlimited budget I'm sure many sites would love to accommodate every single possible client-end setup.
    The beauty of it is you don't have to. The key concept is called progressive enhancement, and it works like this:
    1. Write the code so that it works with the simplest user agent: anything that supports HTTP and HTML.
    2. Add 'bells and whistles' unobtrusively: images, CSS, JavaScript, Flash, MathML, SVG, embedded video, ...


    This is far easier, and usually yields much better accessibility, than the older concept known as graceful degradation:
    1. Write the code for top-of-the-line user agents, including all cool features.
    2. Try to make each feature degrade gracefully if not supported.
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  2. #27
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Tailslide's Avatar
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    I went to a seminar thing at the weekend which included a talk from a chap about Unobtrusive Javascript in particular with respect to Ruby on Rails.

    He said exactly what Tommy has just said plus he said that it saved him a lot of time doing it that way round too. Now he only used progressive enhancement rather than the other way around.

    Plus there he mentioned several additions to the Prototype library which help make it much easier for designers to build in accessibility to their sites without extra effort.
    Little Blue Plane Web Design
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  3. #28
    gingham dress, army boots... silver trophy redux's Avatar
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    Off Topic:

    there was also a chap saying "b*llocks", but that's another matter
    re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
    [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
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  4. #29
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Tailslide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redux View Post
    Off Topic:

    there was also a chap saying "b*llocks", but that's another matter

    Could be worse - could be talking b*llocks!
    Little Blue Plane Web Design
    Blood, Sweat & Rust - A Land Rover restoration project

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tailslide View Post
    He said exactly what Tommy has just said plus he said that it saved him a lot of time doing it that way round too.
    The difference is probably that he was paid.

    If you're interested in this, I'd recommend that you keep an eye on Accessites.org the next few days or so. I happen to know that there's a very interesting article on its way ...
    (It should be online already, but a site redesign seems to have got in the way.)
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    If we give it up to strict security policies, it's not gonna make it through. However, I agree that such an important parts as user login should be left as simple as possible and a site can't be fully based on AJAX alone, not to mention SEO.
    My bolding.

    Relevant cite:
    Christian Darie et al. (2006) "AJAX and PHP" Packt Publishing page 84.

    "Opera is indeed the safest browser in the world."

    Also recommended "Connecting to Remote Servers and Java Script Security" page 79.

    Note in addition to AJAX based on the XMLHttpRequest object, there is an alternative based on hidden (i)Frames with it's own problems.

    Related threads:

    Web applications and SEO.

    With Web 2.0 sites around, Is SEO still necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr John View Post
    While at http://www.thecounter.com/stats/ it seems that the number with Javascript disabled is steadily decreasing this year. They now report only around 4% have it disabled.

    Remember, w3schools is NOT a typical site, it's users are fellow geeks like us. With odd habits.
    With the evolution of web 2.0 and web applications, it will like a natural law decrease to zero is my prediction.

    A strong argument for Opera, at least in 2007. In my opinion, Opera is the only "web 2.0 browser". Download the latest version if you do not have it and click:

    View + Style

    and you understand why.

    Quote Originally Posted by simonpointer View Post
    If you want to build highly accessible sites and applications that work across browsers, platforms, user capability and in the future, then I am afraid relying on client side capability is a no go. (What are you going to do when your user wants to use your site on a PDA, cell phone or the TV?)
    A very important principle is that an AJAX application shall degrade gracefully. The above book by Diare et a.l. have very good code examples on this. For more information read, "Professional AJAX" by Zakas et. al. (Be sure to buy the latest edition).

    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    The beauty of it is you don't have to. The key concept is called progressive enhancement, and it works like this:
    1. Write the code so that it works with the simplest user agent: anything that supports HTTP and HTML.
    2. Add 'bells and whistles' unobtrusively: images, CSS, JavaScript, Flash, MathML, SVG, embedded video, ...


    This is far easier, and usually yields much better accessibility, than the older concept known as graceful degradation:
    1. Write the code for top-of-the-line user agents, including all cool features.
    2. Try to make each feature degrade gracefully if not supported.
    Some like the mother, other the daughter hopefully the father likes both.

    Good principles. Are they incompatible?
    Last edited by kgun; Aug 1, 2007 at 04:47.

  7. #32
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    I just read through the Tech Times newsletter, issue #170 email.. so this thread is rather amusing in retrospect.

    I also find it interesting that not one person brought up the point of creating forward focused sites developed around the content.. to present it in the best possible way and lead more net users toward our new found technologies.

    Creating sites that interest people is an excellent way of enticing them to accept these changes. For the most part.. people will stick to what they know (which is java disabled for the sake of this old thread).. we as web developers are responsible not only for producing content rich, user focused web sites, but also for the process of evolving our medium. We have to show them that it's going to be okay and that new things won't kill them after all.

    However..

    There's always going to be better ways to do things. There's always going to be opinions on which ways are actually better.. and who they apply to.. as we've learned from this thread and the current state of the matter. This should serve as a reminder, that we should be using each project as a platform to broaden not only our own horizons, but those of the users we gotten into this business for as well.

    Letting the politics of customer placation guide our evolution hasn't exactly worked for our governing officials.. why would we apply it to our only refuge?


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