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  1. #1
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    software piracy....

    Just a thought folks.....

    Pirated software is bad!
    http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/ne...kpt=zdhpnews01

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  2. #2
    pg for mild peril cow's Avatar
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    wow, if it's such a problem here in the states, just imagine how big of a problem it is overseas!
    "There's no justice like angry mob justice!" --Seymour Skinner

  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy
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    I've heard rumors that 90% of the copies of Windows 98 in Asia are pirated... 90%!!!

    They sell pirated CD's of Windows over there for about $5... (hmmm, wonder if I could get them shipped here )

  4. #4
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    I work for Microsoft (Customer Service, Personal Support). I receive two or three calls a day for products that have been registered to 20,000 - 35,000 people. These people all used the SAME product key during installation, and then continued to register the product! Imagine how many of these people were smart enough to skip registration; witch is not required for installation. Amazing.

    Just 15minutes ago I had a guy yell at me when he couldnít install Windows XP - Pro on his 4 other computers. Do these people not read the EULA? I get yelled at every day for XP (Windows and Office) activation. As far as I can tell, those who donít agree with the activation are the ones casually copying software (friends, family, 2nd and 3rd computers).

  5. #5
    SitePoint Zealot
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    Originally posted by beley
    I've heard rumors that 90% of the copies of Windows 98 in Asia are pirated... 90%!!!

    They sell pirated CD's of Windows over there for about $5...
    This is true, when I was in Bangkok Thailand a few years ago, I saw just about every game, application and OS for sale on the streets. Not only on the streets, but in the malls, and computer stores. All on CD-R, I didnít see a single retail box the whole month. I watched as Americans bought thousands of dollars of software for just pennies. Something needs to change

  6. #6
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy
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    Well, to say a word for the general public (NOT the geeks out there):

    I have seen some pirated Windows and Office software, and it was VERY hard to distinguish it from a legal copy, right down to the holograms.

    The pirates these days are good... REALLY GOOD. Most of the people who buy pirated software don't realize that it's pirated. If I didn't know the retail prices of the software, I might have bought a pirated copy of Win98SE - they wanted $25 for the OEM (CD and Book Only - no retail box)

    The printing on the CD and book were exceptional...

  7. #7
    Rent A Cop Dan
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    I work with three nonprofits on a regular basis and another big problem I see is employees installing software without going through proper procedures to make sure licensing is upto date.

    I love the fact that I can never find software when I go their. When I ask about it... "oh I think so and so has it", "no she gave it to her brother to install"....

    I just roll my eyes and go to the person who is the most in charge and tell them I really need the software to fix what they need and that what is happening is kind of against the law.

    Can people get in trouble for not saying anything when they witness it without doing anything?

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  8. #8
    + platinum's Avatar
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    I went to malaysia for a holiday one or two years ago with my parents, and there were just stalls, and full shops stocked with pirated software, they had office 2000 pro. for $10, even before it managed to get to australia

  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    Many countries do not recognise US copyright (or other countries), and require a seperate legal process to enjoy it. Some automatically accept the rights of those asserted in certain countries - and others still have no copyright law whatsoever. Ergo half of what you are talking about, while it could be argued as "pirating", is in no way illegal.

    I do not fully understand the new xp sign up process - don't have it yet. I plan on buying a legal copy, but if the new procedures are going to cause me hassle when installing the os, I'll simply abandon ship and move to Linux permanently methinks!

    The reason is simple - I have to reformat my hard drive at least once every three months. Things seem to go horribly wrong and repeated crashes eventually corrupt everything beyond usefulness. Now it may be that xp doesn't have these probs (but I distinctly remember the same promise for '98 se.......), but assuming they continue - are there obstacles in my way for reinstalling/reformatting?
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  10. #10
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    Piracy is a really big problem and not only Microsoft suffers from it.
    Here in Russia for 2-3$ You can buy windowsXP and officeXP on 1 cd.
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  11. #11
    Mlle. Ledoyen silver trophy seanf's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TheOriginalH
    are there obstacles in my way for reinstalling/reformatting?
    No. When you install XP for the first time it will create a profile of your current hardware and send this along with your registration details when you activate it. The next time you install XP it will go through the same steps but comparing your current config to the one you had when you originally installed it. The only problem you will get is when you completely change 6 seperate pieces of hardware

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  12. #12
    SitePoint Addict DevilBear's Avatar
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    Which is less moral: software piracy, or the existence and tactics of the BSA? I have an ethical problem with both.

  13. #13
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    <disclaimer>My math and statistics skills sucks, so please don't take them *too* seriously.</disclaimer>

    This debate divides me quite a bit. I don't like to turn this into a flame war - I accidentally destroyed a perfectly good discussion here on SitePoint by debating warez with Ron from Standard Internet, and it turned very ugly indeed - I don't want that to happen here. With that said, I'll offer my views on this topic.

    I have no problem with the 31337 hax0r kiddies that uses their warezed version of Photoshop to create a web site in their warezed version of MS FrontPage. These kids don't have the money to pay for that software anyways, and since they get used to it, they might buy 30 business licences for their company in the future. I think Adobe knows this, too - and they are smart to allow it.

    I think casual copying should be allowed. XP Home edition should allow a family to install it on their home computers - Microsoft is WAY too greedy there. Such greed WILL blow up in their face, when nil-cost UNIX flavours becomes easy to use.

    I don't think Microsoft needs more economical power than they already have. Think about it:

    Let's say Microsoftís lost profits from a "pirated" copy of Office XP Pro is $250 (That's a very rough guess, but please accept if for arguments sake). Microsoft had an income of 22956 MILLION DOLLARS in the year 2000. Yes, you read that right. That means that the lost profits from a pirated Office XP about 0,00000109% of their yearly income.

    Now, compare this to the regular working man. According to The Social Security Administration, the average wage is $32154 per year in America. Office XP pro at Amazon will cost you $500 after rebates. Thatís a whooping 1,55% of the yearly wage, and 18.5% of the monthly!

    Now, letís get REALLY serious and compare it to the RUSSIAN working man:
    According to this page the average wage in the Russian Federation equals about $1241 PER YEAR. That means that the cost of Office XP is 40.2% of the average yearly Russian wage. 40.2% of the American working mans wage is about $12861. Gee - I wonder why piracy is so high there Ė would YOU buy Office XP if it cost you $12861?

    Microsoft pricing has, in my opinion, went totally crazy with the XP line of products, even though they launched Product activation to reduce piracy. So much for reduced piracy benefitting the customers.

    "Piracy" is a crime of robbery commited at sea.
    ... used in any other way is just a marketing ploy to make something sound worse than it is. Copying is not the same as stealing. "Not giving money to" is not the same as "taking money from". Illegal copying is a crime - granted, but geez, it's only lost profits, people. There are much, much, MUCH worse crimes to worry about, such as murder, embezzling, farting in public and REAL robbery.

    WITH ALL THAT SAID Ė I myself try to stay clean. My Office and Windows XP are legal, and I have paid companies money for software I like. I'm also right now trying to convince a client of mine, a non profit organization, to get real, licenced copies of Windows and Office, sicne they might get into trouble otherwise.
    Last edited by M. Johansson; Jan 13, 2002 at 07:15.
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  14. #14
    HI silver trophy Silverado4x4's Avatar
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    I agree 100% truelight if all of your facts are correct.

    We have a regular home computer that I use. My sister also has a laptop, and so does my dad.

    To get a licensed copy of XP and Office, we would have to pay nearly $1000 (I forget the exact costs) EACH. $3000 to upgrade our computers is a little too much. Especially since they're personal computers.

    IMO Microsoft is getting a little too greedy (although I still like their products).

  15. #15
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    $1000??? Really? I knew it was bad, but not THAT bad. I could build a very nice computer for less.

    My advice is to buy OEM versions, they are much cheaper - you can get them if you buy some hardware at the same time
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  16. #16
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    Hardware etc...

    I agree totaly.

    I have a main computer at home I would like to upgrade to Win XP, but I won't. This is becuase I read somewhere that it sends details on your hardware along with registration.

    I frequently re-format my computer, but was told that this would not be a problem. Then i heard about the hardware. I am someone who makes very frequent changes to his hardware configurations and this is something that I cannot aviod. So even if I didn't re-format the hard drive I was told that the OS would detect the change and demand re-registration. This would be an inconvienience but not thats all, then I was told Microsoft would be fussy after a few re-registrations and thats why I can't upgrade.

    Firstly I think the fact that MS changed the User License from ONE USER to ONE machine was reiculous. I have a home network at my house with several computers on it. These only have one user ME, expect the main one which the family use. Even then thier is rarely more than one person using the network at one time.

    Also I think that if I pay for the software I should be able to change my system and format my Hard Drive as much as I want with out having to explain my self to microsoft.

    I am even more worried about the Application Server Provider Idea. I don't like the idea of having to pay for my software as I use it and also have little control over it. I am gonna take some convincing about this one!

    Anyways - I guess we all should look into Linux!

    Rick
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  17. #17
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    While I totally agree with you on the point of one user -> one machine licence, product activation is pretty unobtrusive, and certainly not a reason to turn down a good OS like windows XP.

    Product activation is really a very minor annoyance. It allows 5 pieces of hardware to change in your computer before you need to update you registration, which takes 10 minutes maximum. XP is wonderful, in my opinion, and not buying it just because of some petty thing like product activation is just a result of the tinfoil-hat syndrome.



    And no, Linux is not ready for the desktop yet - it's great for servers, but interface-wise it's downright pathetic compared to Windows. Mac OS X, on the other hand... mmmmmm
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  18. #18
    Not a post-script error?!! guysmy's Avatar
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    Maybe this is a sign that software prices are far too high. If 90% of the Windows OS is pirated in Asia, this must be because the majority cannot afford it.

  19. #19
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    Well,

    1 - the points about hardware were obtained from various sources such as a respected computer magazine etc.

    2 - I don't hate Microsoft for being Microsoft either! I like and frequently use many of thier products, I really like some of thier Games and I am strongly considering getting an X-BX when it comes out.

    3 - Hardware, as I said I make alot of hardware changes. You say that I can do five chnages, that means there is a chance I would have to re-register every 2 weeks or so. I was also told that after a few re-registrations MS is fussy about letting you re-register - I don't like that idea! For example I requently swap harddrives between computers. I rely on the fact that with in a few min max it is working on another computer - the idea of having to re-register it once or twice a week, possibly twice a day is very of putting - if you can make 5 changes then I assume that swapping hdd's will require re-registration!

    On a related point, the fact that I would be swapping Harddrives around would not violate the License Agreement becuase it is only being used on one computer at once - it can't be on two becuase its only on one harddrive which can't be in 2 pcs at once!

    Anyway - once again we seem to be falling victim to a company that just wants to squeze less than 1% more profit out of its consumers becuase it can!

    Well I guess we should feel sorry for MS - they do have alot of lawyers to pay! :P

    Rick
    RBoycey

  20. #20
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by rboycey

    2 - I don't hate Microsoft for being Microsoft either! I like and frequently use many of thier products, I really like some of thier Games and I am strongly considering getting an X-BX when it comes out.
    Hey Rick!

    X-BOX is out!

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  21. #21
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    R U sure its out in the UK. I watch far too much telly as it is and I havn't seen any media hype apart from the odd review / update thing.

    Besides whenever a new games console is out town is flooded with messages about it, I havn't seen any yet/.

    Rick
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  22. #22
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    I have no idea if it's available in the UK. It's been available here in the States since September or so and I'm rather surprised it wasn't released in the UK at the same time.

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  23. #23
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    XP had a massive advertising campaign everywhere u looked for its uk launch - I expect the people behind x-box will be thinking bigger for x-box's launch - I mean we'd all hate it if those old grannies missed the fact that it was out wouldn't we now..

    Rick
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  24. #24
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I agree with most of what is being said here. I am a student, I have very little money, so I get some of my software from "friends" If couldn't get it there is no way that I would buy. I don't make any money off of the software. I use it because I enjoy making web pages, most of my work is charity work, for non-profit organizations (On Campus student clubs). When I graduate and get a job, I will buy a retail version.

    As for Microsoft, they are greedy, but on one hand if they didn't have all the money they do, they couldn't out the programs they do, the only problem is that they want more money for the programs that they do put out. I have 5 computers, I only use two, my Laptop and my tower. About a month before Xp was released I got a version of Win Xp Pro, I installed it on my tower, and went to install it on my laptop, but I wouldn't work because I just installed it on my Tower. So I reinstalled win 2k pro. It's not like that I can use both computers at the same time, so two buy two seperate copies of XP is just plan stuiped.

    On a positive note, Microsoft is very aware that students don't have any money. They also know that if you get a student or young person hooked on their products that for the most part they will stick with the same line of product for the rest of their life, which translate into mega $$$ for Billy Gates. I can go anytime to the Student Computer store and slap down $25 for Win 2k, thats right I said $25 for a fully registered full version of Win 2k. 15 bucks will get you a full version of Office Pro 2k. The only draw back is that from the intial release of the MS product it takes 6 months to a year to see it in the Student Computer store for the "educational price". Microsoft isn't all bad. But back to Microsoft bashing.

    Everyone keeps saying how "great" XP is, but I have to disagree, Win 2k pro is a much better program, I'll admit the GUI of XP is prettier, and it has a few more thoughtful options, but when it comes down to the stablity of the product Win 2k pro beats XP. How many times have you had XP crash and have that window pop up asking you to send a bug report? About 10% of the time I get a blue screen on boot up. If I am lucky it will boot on the next try. I still have hardware compatiablity issues, I have a HP photoSmart 1100 printer, that still doesn't work with XP even tho HP released "genric" driver for the product line.

    Microsoft has lost my business for the time being with XP. Win 2k works great for me, and I will stick with it until I am forced to upgrade. In the short run Microsoft will reap profits from XP, but as they get tighter with their registation process you will see more and more people like me, who know what they want and know how to program. They will bust out linux or BeOS and start modifying until it does what they want it to. Prime example Lindows.

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  25. #25
    What? Maelstrom's Avatar
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    Originally posted by beley
    I've heard rumors that 90% of the copies of Windows 98 in Asia are pirated... 90%!!!

    They sell pirated CD's of Windows over there for about $5... (hmmm, wonder if I could get them shipped here )
    Actually that is a large black market scandal. Most of the copies made in the middle east are actually shipped here.
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