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  1. #51
    SitePoint Member psoTFX's Avatar
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    Originally posted by W. Luke

    They got the ideas from a list of recommendations to allow your software to be used by the United States Government and its agencies. They require standardized code. They certainly didn't get it from phpBB.
    Absolutely, whatever you say, besides I'm sure vB devs are never influenced by any other piece of software ... ever ...
    Originally posted by W. Luke

    When the 2.X series was created, 70% of it was written by one person. Only after the first Alpha version was released for testing did they hire new developers and have multiple people writing the code. However when you suddenly increase "the number of cooks", new styles are going to be introduced.
    Sorry to continue to take this a little OT but I heartily disagree. If you've defined decent coding guidelines to begin with (as happened with phpBB2) the 'extra cooks' are asked to follow these guidelines from the moment they start to participate. In general phpBB2 development has maintained its coding style even with a few changes of developers.
    Originally posted by W. Luke

    Even with that the vBulletin code is well written with standard conventions used throughout for the most part. Now the code could be commented better and made tighter in places but that wasn't the focus over the 2.X rewrite. The focus was to strengthen the engine and provide the basis for future expansion.
    Which IMVHO includes a standard coding style, it's inherent to good design ... but as I said, I don't want to continue to take this OT so it's perhaps time to 'agree to disagree' over some aspects here
    Originally posted by conkermaniac

    Of course I have seen phpBB! The bottom is starting to look like YaBB, while the rest is looking more and more like a copy of the original UBB and Ikonboard. Why can't anyone come up with a new design?
    Exsqueze me? Would you care to check your facts as to the style? You'll find subSilver, our default style is actually the 'daddy' of the recent changes in style of various alternative boards and not the other way around. In terms of features ... what do you expect? All boards will share a number of features, but equally most boards have one or two things the others don't. In our case that tends to be extended usergroups and permissions + the modular admin system.
    Originally posted by conkermaniac

    BTW, I can access sourceforge.net, but phpbb.sourceforge.net is blocked. I can't access the Area51 URL either. It seems like all the links to the phpBB site are intentionally blocked. I can download the file (from the Sourceforge main page), but I can't see their support forums. Totally pathetic!
    Yes, it is totally pathetic that you are unable to do what thousands of other users are able to do everyday and visit the phpBB2 test board ... this suggests it's your problem and not ours ... geez.

    I appologise for the 'more OT' response above by conkermaniac is succeeding in winding me up somewhat
    phpBB Development Team Leader ...
    ... and former style guru to the stars, or maybe not.
    phpBB 3.0 | Security Tracker | Bug Tracker

  2. #52
    Database Jedi MattR's Avatar
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    Originally posted by psoTFX
    Absolutely, whatever you say, besides I'm sure vB devs are never influenced by any other piece of software ... ever ...
    I've been yelling (well not yelling but prodding) for standardized code since vB1.x. So it's nothing new that they're moving to a more standard style of coding.

    But you're right -- even if they didn't make a complete re-write (or at least go through the code and re-indent, etc.) you'd think they would've made it a point to say "From this day forward we will use this style" so that at least the new guys are on the same page and all new code (plus any they modify) will end up the same. That would ultimately save a lot of time in the 3.x re-write since most of it would've been done for them.

    Trust me, as a DBA I've had an interest in the backends of all the forum software that I could get my hands on -- and there's not a single one that didn't have something uhm.. how to say this nicely .. to work on with DB design.

  3. #53
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Sorry, but I must believe they have some good reasons for doing what they've done. My only gripe lies with pre 2.x versions, where the HTML was a mess. Regardless of what they should have done, I think it's patently ridiculous to suggest that they "got" the idea from phpBB in any way whatsoever. The concept of standardized code is not unique to phpBB...it's been around longer than that. They just recently NEEDED to implement it, what with so many people involved.

    Is it really that hard to believe that perhaps they didn't think they'd need standards with just 2 or 3 people? "A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow." Speed was probably half the project.

    Maybe you want to paint vB as a copycat of some sort, but I don't think it's going to work. Yes, if only on a subconcious level, we all influence each other; that's a given. It's not worth mentioning unless the copying becomes blatant or obvious...and let me tell you, going with a standardized way of coding is in no way a blatant copy of anyone else. Not even close, IMO.

    Even if it was, who gives a crap? I don't see the vB devs over here making little comments about phpBB conincidentally adding a "Who's Online" page, JS confirmations for new PMs, board styles editable in the "Profile" section, timezone manipulation (the dropdown looks an awful lot like the one on vB), sticky threads, easy bbCode buttons that mimic vB's to an incredible degree, etc.

    Sorry, but none of it matters. vB can poke at you in the same manner you're trying to poke at them. This is all a waste of time.

    Yes, it is totally pathetic that you are unable to do what thousands of other users are able to do everyday and visit the phpBB2 test board ... this suggests it's your problem and not ours ... geez.
    While I partially agree, I still think that was a little overly harsh. If it were me, I'd at least try to find out what's wrong; I wouldn't assume it was 100% on the other person's end without asking a few questions first.

  4. #54
    Database Jedi MattR's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TWTCommish
    ...I think it's patently ridiculous to suggest that they "got" the idea from phpBB in any way whatsoever.
    That's true, I don't think the vB developers looked at phpBB and said "Holy cow they have standards, we need it!".

    However, if anyone was to suggest that there hasn't been, nor will be, any sort of 'idea' stealing (for lack of a better term) is also I think silly. Unless they have a patent or trademark on a particular idea people are going to take what works and use it. Say I visit someone else's site and see something that's neat. I'll go ahead and implement it on my site.

  5. #55
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Yeah, exactly. I think UBB had a PM hack before vB did...but it was a hack. vB used it. Now other forums like vB are using it. Is that stealing? No. My point is, though, if the phpBB developer here wants to poke a little fun at vB for what he thinks is the copying of an idea (even if he doesn't care enough to do anything about it), he ought to realize that phpBB is "guilty" of this same thing, and that a vB dev would have the right to do the same thing to him.

  6. #56
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    iFroggy's Avatar
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    I have always said that all forum softwares influence each other.

  7. #57
    Making a better wheel silver trophy DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MattR
    there's not a single one that didn't have something uhm.. how to say this nicely .. to work on with DB design.

  8. #58
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    I like vBulletin. Iv'e used UBB, and the other freebies. You get what you pay for.

  9. #59
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    I love YaBBSE.

    Could be because I'm developing a mod for it. (RPG Mod - Level/HP/MP/Experiance)


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