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  1. #76
    Non-Member I87's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if I've "made it"

    but I'm averaging $20,000 a month (yes, 20k a month) from alittle work on the Internet, but it isn't a job, it isn't stable and there's a chance I'm going to get into trouble for being underage


    but I'm 15 and it feels good to have so much money at my feet


    though, I have gave alot away to charity/friends and family

    I've spent about $5k on myself:- and the rest I'm putting away to put towards a mortgage when I'm 18

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by I87 View Post
    I'm not sure if I've "made it"

    but I'm averaging $20,000 a month (yes, 20k a month) from alittle work on the Internet, but it isn't a job, it isn't stable and there's a chance I'm going to get into trouble for being underage


    but I'm 15 and it feels good to have so much money at my feet


    though, I have gave alot away to charity/friends and family

    I've spent about $5k on myself:- and the rest I'm putting away to put towards a mortgage when I'm 18

    Wow thats a lot of money for one so young, don't give to much away - real life can be very expensive.

    As for me - I earn above average, but happiness is my true goal
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  3. #78
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    wow I87, with what kind of sites you are cashing in that much at that age?
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  4. #79
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I87 View Post
    I'm not sure if I've "made it"

    but I'm averaging $20,000 a month (yes, 20k a month) from alittle work on the Internet, but it isn't a job, it isn't stable and there's a chance I'm going to get into trouble for being underage


    but I'm 15 and it feels good to have so much money at my feet


    though, I have gave alot away to charity/friends and family

    I've spent about $5k on myself:- and the rest I'm putting away to put towards a mortgage when I'm 18
    $20k a month really isn't a lot, what is great is that you make it at a young age. Most people who eventually reach that income level do not do so until their 30's or 40's. You, by doing it at 15, have a huge head start. That means that if your income stays the same, by the time you are 30 you will have already earned 3.6 million in your lifetime. Of course figure 50% of that went to taxes (you are paying taxes right? Being 15 is not a get out of tax free card).

    With that kind of cash, if you invest it right, you are almost guaranteed to have wealth in excess of 8 figures (10 million+) by the time you are 50.

    Others are right though, don't give too much away. Give money away when you're 50, right now every dollar you can invest will pay huge dividends down the road.

    What I would do if I were you is, instead of a house, buy a duplex, or even 2 or 3 if they're side by side. (figure a 100k down payment on a 500k set of duplexes). Live in one of the units, and rent out the other 5. The rent should cover your mortgage, property tax, and insurance, while building you solid equity in the buildings. You're young, you don't need a bigger place yet. Wait until you get married to buy a full sized house. Every couple years you can refinance, cash out equity tax free, and buy more rental units. Eventually you could even be able to build an entire apartment building. Do this for 10 years and you'll have millions in equity.

    Owning rented real estate is just about the most reliable path to wealth that there is. Only people are put off from it because it requires a large initial investment, and it is not liquid at all so you need to wait years to see any return. It is also less affected by any real estate bubble since you're not buying and selling, you're buying and renting and holding and refinancing. Ideally, you never sell, just keep refinancing (because refinancing gets you money tax free, sell and you pay taxes on the profit).
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  5. #80
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspen View Post
    Owning rented real estate is just about the most reliable path to wealth that there is. Only people are put off from it because it requires a large initial investment, and it is not liquid at all so you need to wait years to see any return.
    There's also the whole "being a landlord" thing that lots of people don't like or have a hard time adjusting to.

  6. #81
    Put your best practices away. The New Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vgarcia View Post
    There's also the whole "being a landlord" thing that lots of people don't like or have a hard time adjusting to.
    I agree Vinnie. The legality of the landlord/tenet relationship is so sticky that it can put people off. Actually, all the logistics of owning and renting a property put many people off. Especially considering most people would be doing it part time.
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  7. #82
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Its really not that hard, especially on a small scale, and in the case of my advice to him, he'd be living on property.
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  8. #83
    Life is short. Be happy today! silver trophybronze trophy Sagewing's Avatar
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    I'm one of those people who doesn't want to be a landlord. I do agree that owning/managing property is a great way to get rich, but I'd rather grow my money a bit slower and not have any overhead. This is mainly because I enjoy so much travel time and I don't want to feel like I have to be in any particular area all the time. If I owned properties, I'd be uncomfortable leaving the area for months at a time. Also, I'm just not interested in the landlord game.

    On the topic of happiness, it's a great idea to match your investments to your desired lifestyle. People seem to always gravitate towards real estate, but it's not the best choice for everyone. I do own a home and overseas beach property but it's fully managed for me when we're in the US, which works well. But, most of our money is in a diversified portfolio of stocks/bonds/funds/etc. which has turned out to be a good choice.

    So, we don't have the absolute highest ROI on earth, but it's still growing very nicely and there's no hassle at all. Also, it's incredibly liquid and convenient so this is a good choice for us. Wealth is measured in many ways. I'd rather make 1 million in interest/dividends and do nothing as opposed to making 1.5 million and have to spend time dealing with tenants and managing a few properties.

    There is also the idea of being debt-free, which is an alien concept to many Americans these days. I meet many young people going into business and they are desperately saving money so that they can go into debt on a mortgage. A well planned mortgage isn't a bad thing, but being stuck in debt your whole life is no good and many, many people find themselves perpetually cashpoor after putting all of their hard-earned money into a single mortgage which doesn't actually produce income.

    I also take issue with so many single-person start-ups who seem to think they should borrow money to get started - I discourage this, too. Although I've borrowed money in the past (even to make my first real estate purchase) I no longer do, even if it limits my choices. I am especially resistant to credit card debt (in general) and especially car payments. Cars are the worst investment there is and paying interest to own such a fast depreciating item is financial insanity.

    Debt is really worth avoiding and when you do the math, the difference between paying 5% interest and earning 5% interest usually outweighs the time it will take to save up instead of borrowing.

    The peace of mind, simplicity, and security of owning a variety of assets with no debt - that is true wealth to me because it means that we can have security (i.e. roof over head, emergency cash, health care) even if our income suddenly went to zero. Knowing that we could easily survive on almost no income at all (because we already have a home, cars, etc.) is a great feeling and I would prefer it to having 4 mortgages but more wealth in terms of equity...
    The fewer our wants, the nearer we resemble the gods. Socrates

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  9. #84
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    Depends on what you mean made it

    I'm 29, I make about 100k but I am not in my ideal field. Can I pay my bills, yes, am I 100% happy - no.

  10. #85
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    The peace of mind, simplicity, and security of owning a variety of assets with no debt - that is true wealth to me because it means that we can have security (i.e. roof over head, emergency cash, health care) even if our income suddenly went to zero. Knowing that we could easily survive on almost no income at all (because we already have a home, cars, etc.) is a great feeling and I would prefer it to having 4 mortgages but more wealth in terms of equity...
    I don't think anyone here has expressed a different definition of wealth than that. Wealth is your assets minus any liabilities. Having a big mortgage certainly doesn't make you wealthy.
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  11. #86
    Non-Member I87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Magnus View Post
    Wow thats a lot of money for one so young, don't give to much away - real life can be very expensive.

    As for me - I earn above average, but happiness is my true goal
    That's true, but I'd feel abit greedy if I just kept it all for myself lol

  12. #87
    Non-Member I87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspen View Post
    $20k a month really isn't a lot, what is great is that you make it at a young age. Most people who eventually reach that income level do not do so until their 30's or 40's. You, by doing it at 15, have a huge head start. That means that if your income stays the same, by the time you are 30 you will have already earned 3.6 million in your lifetime. Of course figure 50% of that went to taxes (you are paying taxes right? Being 15 is not a get out of tax free card).

    With that kind of cash, if you invest it right, you are almost guaranteed to have wealth in excess of 8 figures (10 million+) by the time you are 50.

    Others are right though, don't give too much away. Give money away when you're 50, right now every dollar you can invest will pay huge dividends down the road.

    What I would do if I were you is, instead of a house, buy a duplex, or even 2 or 3 if they're side by side. (figure a 100k down payment on a 500k set of duplexes). Live in one of the units, and rent out the other 5. The rent should cover your mortgage, property tax, and insurance, while building you solid equity in the buildings. You're young, you don't need a bigger place yet. Wait until you get married to buy a full sized house. Every couple years you can refinance, cash out equity tax free, and buy more rental units. Eventually you could even be able to build an entire apartment building. Do this for 10 years and you'll have millions in equity.

    Owning rented real estate is just about the most reliable path to wealth that there is. Only people are put off from it because it requires a large initial investment, and it is not liquid at all so you need to wait years to see any return. It is also less affected by any real estate bubble since you're not buying and selling, you're buying and renting and holding and refinancing. Ideally, you never sell, just keep refinancing (because refinancing gets you money tax free, sell and you pay taxes on the profit).
    that's a good idea actually


    and yeah technically I've not being paying taxes, my brother has
    basically
    I make the money, and pay for the taxes and give my bro alil bit of extra money for him letting me do stuff in his name, lol


    I'm pretty sure that's illegal, so let's just say my brothers been getting an average of 20k per month and I've been helping him work

  13. #88
    Life is short. Be happy today! silver trophybronze trophy Sagewing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspen View Post
    I don't think anyone here has expressed a different definition of wealth than that. Wealth is your assets minus any liabilities. Having a big mortgage certainly doesn't make you wealthy.
    I dunno about this 'assets minus liabilities' thing. I'm beginning to think that Rich Dad Poor Dad was the biggest step back in the American physche in a long time. It talks about liabilities vs. assets, but doesn't bother to define wealth in real terms (satisfaction, happiness, health, etc.).

    I think you are describing 'net worth', which is indeed assets minus liabilities. That's a number which represents a dollar value, and is definitely of interest.

    But, wealth isn't that at all. Wealth is measure in terms of health, family, happiness, purpose, benefit to others, etc. Well, things like that, at least.

    It's easy to argue that money contributes to happiness because it makes many things easier and more accessible. However, there is really no evidence that money increases happiness for people who aren't living in poverty. In the US, we are seeing the result - people getting richer, but living further apart from their families, taking anti-depressants, and going more in to debt as they earn a higher income. Can we really say that this 'wealth' has resulted in more happiness or satisfaction?

    That said, I'm all for increasing our net worth as much as possible! If I am going to work, I might as well maximize the benefit of my work to myself and others.
    The fewer our wants, the nearer we resemble the gods. Socrates

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  14. #89
    Life is short. Be happy today! silver trophybronze trophy Sagewing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspen View Post
    I don't think anyone here has expressed a different definition of wealth than that. Wealth is your assets minus any liabilities. Having a big mortgage certainly doesn't make you wealthy.
    I dunno about this 'assets minus liabilities' thing. I'm beginning to think that Rich Dad Poor Dad was the biggest step back in the American psyche in a long time. It talks about liabilities vs. assets, but doesn't bother to define wealth in real terms (satisfaction, happiness, health, etc.).

    I think you are describing 'net worth', which is indeed assets minus liabilities. That's a number which represents a dollar value, and is definitely of interest.

    But, wealth isn't that at all. Wealth is measure in terms of health, family, happiness, purpose, benefit to others, etc. Well, things like that, at least.

    It's easy to argue that money contributes to happiness because it makes many things easier and more accessible. However, there is really no evidence that money increases happiness for people who aren't living in poverty. In the US, we are seeing the result - people getting richer, but living further apart from their families, taking anti-depressants, and going more in to debt as they earn a higher income. Can we really say that this 'wealth' has resulted in more happiness or satisfaction?

    That said, I'm all for increasing our net worth as much as possible! If I am going to work, I might as well maximize the benefit of my work to myself and others.
    The fewer our wants, the nearer we resemble the gods. Socrates

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  15. #90
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    I dunno about this 'assets minus liabilities' thing. I'm beginning to think that Rich Dad Poor Dad was the biggest step back in the American physche in a long time. It talks about liabilities vs. assets, but doesn't bother to define wealth in real terms (satisfaction, happiness, health, etc.).
    You need to look up wealth in a dictionary. You're making up a definition for it to satify some social cause or belief. Its great for rhetoric, but you shouldn't say people are using the word incorrectly when they use it as defined by a dictionary.

    Wealth in real terms is net worth. Wealth in hippy social terms is whatever you want to define it as to serve the rhetoric of the moment. You're free to use such language constructs in your arguments, but don't say we're using the word wrong.

    However, there is really no evidence that money increases happiness for people who aren't living in poverty.
    And there is no real evidence that it doesn't either, just opinion and trite little 4 word sayings.

    If you're going to keep espousing on this evidence or that evidence you would be advised to include links within your posts.

    The truth of the matter is, once the basics are paid for there is likely little correlation between money and happiness. However, that is statistics, and as individuals, we shouldn't be concerned with statistics, only our own personal feelings.

    Wanting more money isn't wrong. Not wanting more money isn't wrong. All that matters is what is right or wrong to you, and you should really stop trying to push your own kumbaya philosophy on others because you think it is better.
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  16. #91
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Oh, by the way, 2 posts ago you said

    The peace of mind, simplicity, and security of owning a variety of assets with no debt - that is true wealth to me
    Assets with no debt == net worth. Exactly what I said. Only in this second post did you decide to make up a definition.

    Oh, and had you said the second time "To me, wealth is" or "I define wealth as" it'd be alright, but you didn't, you said we weren't using the real definition of the word.
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  17. #92
    Webwellwisher Robert Warren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagewing View Post
    I dunno about this 'assets minus liabilities' thing. I'm beginning to think that Rich Dad Poor Dad was the biggest step back in the American psyche in a long time. It talks about liabilities vs. assets, but doesn't bother to define wealth in real terms (satisfaction, happiness, health, etc.).
    I believe you can thank Adam Smith for that.

  18. #93
    I am obstructing justice. bronze trophy fatnewt's Avatar
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    On the whole issue of money vs. happiness, I agree with Chris. What needs to be clarified about what he's saying (and what I think) is this:

    Money itself does not buy happiness, money gives you the capacity to be happy. It's not as if having money instantly makes you happy.

    In Chris' case, he has a family and various things he enjoys. He has a good use for his time and money enables him to spend more time on what makes him happy. His money didn't buy him his family, but if certainly gave him the ability to enjoy his family more and become more happy.

    Therefore, money is a major contributor to Chris' happiness -- it has bought him the ability to enjoy the non-monetary things he has anyways. (We'll assume Chris' wife didn't marry him for his cash :P )
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  19. #94
    SitePoint Evangelist asprookie's Avatar
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    I'm 16 making $20,000+ a year, from 10 mins of work a day (nothing illegal/blackhat either ), so I'm doin' alright.

    Average Daily Income for September: $17.38
    It doesn't add up fella!

  20. #95
    SitePoint Evangelist asprookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galo View Post
    Damn it sounds like your in the Job for the money, get a life please, there's more in life then money....

    I just have a passion for this stuff... dont care about the money....
    That was exactly my first thought! Was afraid to appear rude for saying it.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by asprookie View Post
    It doesn't add up fella!
    That was for September.
    .....It's December now.

    Then I was making $17+ a day.
    .....now I'm making $50+ a day.
    ....it's called growth.
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  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galo View Post
    Damn it sounds like your in the Job for the money, get a life please, there's more in life then money....

    I just have a passion for this stuff... dont care about the money....
    Totally agree. You said you are rich now but still not happy. Don't you realize that getting rich hasn't made you happy, so how will getting even richer do the job?

  23. #98
    Life is short. Be happy today! silver trophybronze trophy Sagewing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I87 View Post
    I'm not sure if I've "made it"

    but I'm averaging $20,000 a month (yes, 20k a month) from alittle work on the Internet, but it isn't a job, it isn't stable and there's a chance I'm going to get into trouble for being underage


    but I'm 15 and it feels good to have so much money at my feet


    though, I have gave alot away to charity/friends and family

    I've spent about $5k on myself:- and the rest I'm putting away to put towards a mortgage when I'm 18
    It is awesome that you are donating to charity. It shows character that at 15 you are doing that. Obviously the friends and family can get complicated when money is involved, but that is great. Why do you want a mortgage when you 18? You could save up a few years and buy a house in cash.
    The fewer our wants, the nearer we resemble the gods. Socrates

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  24. #99
    Put your best practices away. The New Guy's Avatar
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    Charity is a great way to get out of a tax bracket
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  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspen View Post
    Wealth in real terms is net worth. Wealth in hippy social terms is whatever you want to define it as to serve the rhetoric of the moment. You're free to use such language constructs in your arguments, but don't say we're using the word wrong.
    "Hippy social terms"..did you get that off your local right wing radio station? Sagewig raises a good point that there is no corellation between having lots of money and being happy. While you are right about the conventional definition of wealth, lets not turn this into a dictionary argument.


    Quote Originally Posted by aspen View Post
    If you're going to keep espousing on this evidence or that evidence you would be advised to include links within your posts.

    The truth of the matter is, once the basics are paid for there is likely little correlation between money and happiness. However, that is statistics, and as individuals, we shouldn't be concerned with statistics, only our own personal feelings.
    Huh were you trying to be sarcastic or funny here?

    It is hypocritical that you ask him to put links and statistics yet you include none in your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by aspen View Post
    Wanting more money isn't wrong. Not wanting more money isn't wrong. All that matters is what is right or wrong to you, and you should really stop trying to push your own kumbaya philosophy on others because you think it is better.
    "kumbaya philosophy" There you go again with the made up phrases.

    Stop putting people down for having a different take. Be open to other people's opinions.
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