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  1. #1
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    Cool what is being used

    Of the big ones, ASP, ASP.NET, PHP, AND JAVA, which of these are actually used the most on "real" industrual databases? Not blogs, address books, or forums. Lets say for example you had warehouses all over the world, had ships, over 2000 trucks, and were designing a large complex online database to manage something this large, which is used mostly? The frontends being the above mentioned, and the backends being MICROSOFT SQL SERVER, MYSQL, ORACLE (engine same as the free sap database), AND DB2. Bear in mind coldfusion is just an asp or asp.net spinoff customized to their specs. I already know that apache web server in the most used web server.

  2. #2
    I ♥ PHP
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    Jim, I mean no offence, but I think you are a little confused judging by this post and your previous thread on OOP.

    I am not quite sure what you mean by "used on real industrial databases"? I mean how would you class, say, the Microsoft collection of sites that are entirely database driven, and uses ASP.NET for the backend programming. Is that industrial?

    What about MySpace, one of the largest and busiest sites on the Internet? Amazon? Blogger? eBay?

    You can use whatever language you like to program the logic between the database and the web front-end. I believe you are coming from a purely desktop database front-end role, the web does not work like this. Is getting closer with the use of Ajax to create non-refresh page updates, but I think you have a slightly skewed view on how everything fits together.

    ColdFusion is not an ASP spin-off, it is simply another tool to get the job done in a different way, exactly like Visual Basic and Java are both appropriate tools for desktop development.

    All of the languages you mention are perfectly capable of creating the kind of application you are talking about, it depends on the skill of the developer. As for the FedEx site, it is hard to tell what they use, as it should be. It does not matter what background logic exists as long as what is presented to the browser works ok.

    Perhaps if you tell us what problem you are trying to actually solve, or what your goal is in these discussions, we can give a little more insight.

    Kind regards,
    Jordan

  3. #3
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    RE: various techniques

    You are correct in the point of desktop / networked databases vs internet databases. And you hit it right on the nose when you mentioned ajax. This no refresh is still fairly new and has not been completely perfected yet. Most examples still show where you have to type in an id, phone, or something to get it all working. I figure in another year or so more development software will have this ability to program in complex lookups will be available. I am coming from designing networked databases. An example would be tables on a ms sql server and the frontend to handle everything visusl foxpro or ms access. Either of these is still more feature rich than anything web as of yet. I guess I am looking to duplicate these sort of front end features into a web database. I realize the web is different, and ajax techniques are still being perfected. I've been learning php for over a year now, and can do all of these frontend features now, but only by using different pages and page refreshes.
    I was fine til I stumbled across post concerning OOP. Ever since, I have be wondering if what I am learning is all in vain. To read some of these post, regular php is dead and OOp will be the new wave. At one point I was even learning ASP, but then around 2003, the news on the web is asp is dieing. It seemed that no matter what I persued, after only a few months of learning it, suddenly it was dieing. I guess I will have to switch to asp.net. But the way my luck has been going, if I start learning that, it will be on the hit list shortly after. As far as java goes, I am not a rocket scientist. At least in asp.net there are some code generators to get someone new up and running. I will just need to modify and tweak code like I do now to taylor it to the situation at hand. I can write all code myself in regular php, but I have a small program that kicks out update statements and insert statements.
    Coldfusion is just asp / newer ver asp.net. Tailored to that company. It's not a seperate thing. In other words if you knew asp several years ago, you knew coldfusion. Just some custom tags were used to make it a little different.
    You mention sites like myspace and ebay. These do have a lot of database records, but they are still mostly easy flatfile type programming. A large industrial database would be like somethong a company like JB hunt would use. The largest trucking company in the U.S. One where you have complex linked relations, and complex lookups. A search on ebay is just a standard search on a table, with paged results. A complex example would be if you are editing a record, and you currently have billy bobs trucking assigned as the carrier on load# 12345. All of a sudden, billy bob's truck has engine trouble and you need to cover that load with a different trucking company. So there is more than one table involved here. The load table witch you search to pull up load 12345. When you get to the carrier part of the form, you now need to search the carrier table for the new carrier that's going to do the load, say sue ann carriers. But oh no, you have over 200,000 carrier / logistics companies in that table. So you need to first have a way to type in "su" to only get occurences of carriers starting with "su". Then you need to select sue ann carriers from the dropdown, next you need to have sue ann carriers show in the carrier field on your load page, and the phone, contact person, fax fields filled automatically also. So you see it's like a search within your search linked tables with complex lookups. Ajax can do this, so can regular php but with page updates, and using more than one page. I just haven't seen ajax examples used with dropdowns like this.
    So the bottom line is yes it's new to me this type of thing on the web. And if php is going OOP only, I'd like to learn OOP. I have screamed for one complex example. None of that xlt/xls/xml or whatever though. I prefer connecting to a database and using the regular database tables. A couple of years back the talk was xml was taking over, that must have died out, because most examples at least connect regular. I like css better. A high school student with some programming skill could program something like ebay. It's mostly just basic search, and show table results type of stuff. It's to bad more web database programmers don't have a backgorund in the old dbase 3+. At least then they would understand the difference between a simple query vs complex lookups.

  4. #4
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    Jim, you are confused beyond belief.

    First, ColdFusion predates ASP or PHP or just about anything save CGI scripts. Now it runs inside a Java virtual machine (or .NET with blue dragon), but syntactically and logically it is in its own family of languages. In fact, it inspired most modern web server-side things to some extent.

    Second, you seem to have convinced yourself that some of the largest, most complex applications in the world are nothing more than simple flat-file programming because you can't seem to grasp how to make the web work with the database. This is flat-out wrong. I have had a conversation or two with technical folks at MySpace and EBay, and it is nothing approaching some simplistic flat-file thing a "A high school student with some programming skill could program."

    Finally, I do some complex work with complex databases in a fully object oriented way every day. Trust me, it is possible. And once you get your head around the particulars it is much easier.

    For your own good, you really need to:

    1) Quit reading whatever you are reading that is telling you whats hot, whats not and what is related to what.
    2) Go take a good class or two on OOP, design patterns and building web applications.

    Then it will all get much, much clearer.

  5. #5
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    I went to the coldfusion page and went through several flash demos. They demostrated how to insert a component in an html page to replace the query. Now finally, a demo showing how ALL (NOT JUST THE COMPONENT) works. This is all I have been trying to find in php, a concrete example of ALL. The examples shows the oop stuff, but not how they are done on the html pages. I learned more in 10 seconds on the coldfusion demo that over a month trying to learn something here. PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE cut out just giving a fragment, rather show how all pieces fit.
    I am still trying to figure out how to tie html and oop php together. Still no good example, just grappy code fragments.

  6. #6
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    P.S. What in the freck is blue dragon. Their site states that the developmer edition will run on windows xp home edition. DO NOT dispute me here, this is direct from the Adobe coldfusion system requirements ON their site (not my words). I DID NOT see a word about any blue dragon. Have you been puffing on something?

  7. #7
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    You did not see a word on Adobe's site because its not an Adobe product. It's a direct competitor to their Cold Fusion server products. Google should be able to tell you any other details you require.

  8. #8
    I ♥ PHP
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwb_99
    You did not see a word on Adobe's site because its not an Adobe product. It's a direct competitor to their Cold Fusion server products. Google should be able to tell you any other details you require.
    Actually I believe Cold Fusion is now owned by Adobe, as they purchased Macromedia.

    http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/

    Regards,
    Jordan
    Last edited by J Windebank; Nov 27, 2006 at 17:12.


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