Paragraphs and Unordered Lists

[rhlowe]

(I couldn't decide if this thread was better suited for this forum or the Accessibility / Usability forum to please bear with me)


Something I have been thinking about lately is the proper way to use p tags with ul tags.

Generally, the way I would introduce an unordered list, or any list for that matter into a paragraph would be to close the paragraph, add the list, and then start a new paragraph, but it just dawned on me that does seem like the correct way of doing this, see example:

<p>This is an interesting paragraph, huh? I'll introduce the list now:</p>
<ul>
  <li>here</li>
  <li>is a</li>
  <li>list</li>
</ul>
<p>Please, let me finish talking about this list</p>

From the viewpoint of semantics and common sense, wouldn't i be better to code the ul as a child of the paragraph, like this?

<p>This is an interesting paragraph, huh? I'll introduce the list now:
  <ul>
    <li>here</li>
    <li>is a</li>
    <li>list</li>
  </ul>
Please, let me finish talking about this list</p>

Considering that, technically the list is part of the paragraph? Maybe I am the only person who coded using the former method, but I hope not and I hope that my reasoning, though bereft, is adequate to make my point and perhaps garner some discussion.

[karinne]

From the viewpoint of semantics and common sense, wouldn't i be better to code the ul as a child of the paragraph, like this?

<p>This is an interesting paragraph, huh? I'll introduce the list now:
     <ul>
       <li>here</li>
       <li>is a</li>
       <li>list</li>
     </ul>
   Please, let me finish talking about this list</p>

I've always done it this way for the reasons you stated above (semantics and common sense). If it's wrong ... I'd like to know

[r937]

technically, the list is not part of the paragraph (a P may contain only inline elements)

so the first method is correct

[rhlowe]

Well, you know what they say about conventional wisdom, or do you?

Anyways, that was my next venue of search for a definitive answer, so thanks, I'll remain using the old method.

[AutisticCuckoo]

A list doesn't make sense, semantically, within a paragraph. The validator will send death threats your way for the second method.

[Dan Schulz]

Death threats? I thought it only billed you for an arm, a leg, and your first born?

But yeah, lists are not a part of a paragraph. Think about it. Would you expect to find a list inside a paragraph in a book or newspaper? Nope. Between them, yes. But never inside them.

[stridox]

It's not valid xhtml to have a <ul> element contained within <p> tags.

[AutisticCuckoo]

No, it's not, because it doesn't make sense. That's what we've been trying to say in this thread.

BTW, it's not valid HTML either.

[Tyssen]

I can understand why some might think a list is part of a paragraph because a lot of times a list can be written inline and then it is part of the paragraph, e.g.:

Please bring the following items: pen, pencil, paper and calculator.

[AutisticCuckoo]

I know, but that is taking it in absurdum. As with anything else, there are those who go overboard with 'semantics'. I've seen examples where people wanted to mark up a document as an ordered list of paragraphs.

I'd say your example paragraph contains an enumeration, but not a real list.

[DaveWoods]

In that case would it make sense to use:

<p>
Please bring the following items:
</p>
<ul>
    <li>pen,</li>
    <li>pencil,</li>
    <li>paper</li>
    <li>and calculator.</li>
</ul>

I personally wouldn't do that and I'd just have it all as part of the paragraph but there doesn't seem to be anything technically wrong with that. You could even display the list inline if you wanted so that it displays as Tyssen has written it.

[xhtmlcoder]

It depends wither it is an itemised list with an emphasized heading or a string of equipment separated by comma but loosely it could be one way but that looks nearer to string.