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  1. #1
    SitePoint Addict sdamos's Avatar
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    CSS file being overrided... How?

    Can someone tell me why the navigation links found at:

    http://www.donmattingly.com/gallery.php

    differ from those found on any other page of the site even though they are using the same CSS file? The navigation links on the link above are smaller than those on all other pages and I cannot figure out why. Please help.

    Thanks,
    Shannon

  2. #2
    .* draziW tnioPetiS *. bronze trophy
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    Hi,

    Whoa, code hard to decipher.. will do my best.

    I would move the CSS in the problem page to the head... currently you have it placed in the body right above the nav.

    Secondly, your problem page has the nav setup like so:

    HTML Code:
    <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0>
    	<tr><td width=15 valign=top style="padding-top:5px;">&bull; </td><td valign=top style="padding-top:5px;"><a href=/gallery.php?category_id=5&parent_id=0>Don Mattingly and Family</a></td></tr><tr><td width=15 valign=top style="padding-top:5px;">&bull; </td><td valign=top style="padding-top:5px;"><a href=/gallery.php?category_id=4&parent_id=0>Don Mattingly and Misc.</a></td></tr><tr><td width=15 valign=top style="padding-top:5px;">&bull; </td><td valign=top style="padding-top:5px;"><a href=/gallery.php?category_id=6&parent_id=0>Fan Submissions</a></td></tr>
    
    	</table><br><br>
    	
    </td></tr>
    
    
    
    </table>	
    Whereas your other page (About Don), which has a normal-looking menu, is setup like so:

    HTML Code:
    <td width="126" align="left" valign="top"><div class="mainfont" id="navcontainer">
                                <ul id="navlist">
                                  <li><a href="about.html" title="About Don">About
                                      Don </a> <a href="stats.html" title="Don's Stats">Don's
                                      Stats </a></li>
                                  </ul>
                                </div></td>
    I would make the problem page menu match the code of your "good" pages. As you can see, one uses a UL, and the other just uses &bull;.

    Hth?
    Gl,
    Cheers,
    Micky

  3. #3
    .* draziW tnioPetiS *. bronze trophy
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    AH, or did you mean the horizontal nav? Lol....

  4. #4
    SitePoint Addict sdamos's Avatar
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    Yes, just the horizontal Nav, the:

    Home || Store || About Don || Don's Blog || Interviews || Gallery || Events || Links || Contact || FAQ's

  5. #5
    .* draziW tnioPetiS *. bronze trophy
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    Yeah, I see that now... Hehe, sorry, just compared the "About Don" when first examining the site and saw the sidebar navigation as being different.

    Well, I looked-over your source and can't really see where the prob is. Only thing I can suggest is that you validate your html and css. Start fixing probs on that tip and in the process you will probably fix the menu inconstancy.

    I would still move the styles from the body of the gallery page to the head.

    Hopefully others will have better answers.

    Good luck.
    Cheers,
    Micky

  6. #6
    SitePoint Addict sdamos's Avatar
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    Take a look now. I cleaned up the code a bit and it is inside the head now and the extra set of styles code was removed. Still no change...

  7. #7
    .* draziW tnioPetiS *. bronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdamos
    Take a look now. I cleaned up the code a bit and it is inside the head now and the extra set of styles code was removed. Still no change...
    Ah, maybe it is my browser, but I still see the styles in the body:

    Code:
    <style>
    td{ font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;}
    input{ font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;}
    
    a:link {
    	color: #000000;
    	text-decoration: none;
    }
    a:visited {
    	text-decoration: none;
    	color: #000000;
    }
    a:hover {
    	text-decoration: underline overline;
    }
    a:active {
    	text-decoration: none;
    	color: #000000;
    }
    .navtext {
    	font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    	font-size: 13px;
    	font-weight: bold;
    	font-style: normal;
    }
    .footer {
    	font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    	font-size: 13px;
    }
    .footer2 {
    	font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    	font-size: 10px;
    	font-weight: normal;
    }
    .lowernav {
    	font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    	font-size: 10px;
    	color: #000000;
    }
    .mailinglisttext {
    	font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    	font-size: 12px;
    	color: #FFFFFF;
    	font-weight: bold;
    }
    .submitbutton {
    	border: #232F47;
    	font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    	font-size: 10px;
    	background-color: #CCCCCC;
    	font-weight: bolder;
    }
    .addressbox {
    	font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    	font-size: 10px;
    	border: thin solid #000000;
    }
    .radiobutton {
    	border: #232F47;
    	font-size: 10px;
    }
    .mainfont {
    	font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    	font-size: 13px;
    }
    .iqtextbox {
    	font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    	font-size: 12px;
    	border: thin dashed #000000;
    	background-color: #CCCCCC;
    }
    .headertext {
    	font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    	font-size: 16px;
    	font-weight: 600;
    }
    </style>
    Not saying that will be a fix though...

    Ah, maybe not seeing it, but looks like you are missing a link to this:

    <link href="verticalnav.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" />

    on your gallery page.

    Maybe needed? Maybe not?

    Also, I ussually start with validator if I am having troubles:

    http://snipurl.com/un1y

    Then move-on to the style sheet validation. That ussually gets me headed in the right direction.

    Hth?
    Cheers,
    Micky

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    Wow! Submitted your page to the w3c validator and get told: Result: Failed validation, 220 errors...

    Looks like you wrote the page in Dreamweaver(?) You've given it a doctype of XHTML 1.0 Transitional (dreamweaver's current default when you open a new blank page) yet you've written old, html style code...

    Look at the first meta line for example, which was inserted by dw correctly for doctyle xhtml when it created the page, it reads:

    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />

    You'll notice there is a space between the 1"and the /> This is required in Doctype Xhtml

    Now look at your first meta tag: (and all your other lines)

    <meta name="description" CONTENT="The Official Website of the Former New York Yankee Team captain! Don Mattingly Online, get Don Mattingly Memorbilia, autographs, bats, baseballs, jersey, poster, photos, pics, etc., http://www.donmattingly.com">

    There is no space and / at the end.

    In Firefox the browser is trying to display it as standards compliant Xhtml, yet it you are giving it html style code.

    I've tried comparing the two menu lines in question in gallery and another page and can't see any differences, although viewing the pages in a browser I see the diffeent sizes so I strongly suspect the browser is being tripped up somewhere by non compliant code or CSS.

    As Micky said, I'd fix the doctype issues first, then validate the html and css I suspect your problem will then go away.

    If you use Firefox as your browser and add Chris Pederick's Web Developer toolbar extension, you can continually submit your pages for validation as you build them, catching ooopsies as they happen, before you end up with a vast body of code to fix. That works well for most serious page developers I suspect.

    Good luck!

  9. #9
    SitePoint Addict sdamos's Avatar
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    So every SINGLE line of my code needs /> at the end rather than just closing with > ?

  10. #10
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    Just noticed you have a class of navtext for the <td> containing the menu in question.

    In all the other pages you have just a link to: <link href="globalcss.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" /> To set your styles.

    However in the gallery page you have that linked style sheet too but it is then over-ridden by a different inline css rule for .navtext with a different font size! Why have you added an inline style sheet to that page? And why on earth is it stuck in the middle of the body text? Comment out all that inline css in the gallery page and see if the menu sizes are corrected..

  11. #11
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    No, sorry I should have said that tags that have start and end 'pairs' such as <h1></h1> or <p></p> are the same in xhtml as in html.

    It is tags that are single (ie don't come in pairs) like the meta tags, or <hr>(html) which becomes <hr /> in (xhtml)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by colinmcc
    You'll notice there is a space between the 1"and the /> This is required in Doctype Xhtml
    It most certainly is not!

    The space before /> is ubiquitous in pretend-XHTML (i.e., XHTML markup served as text/html) because some old HTML-only user agents will choke on the self-closing tag syntax otherwise.

    No self-respecting developer would include that space in real XML or XHTML.
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  13. #13
    .* draziW tnioPetiS *. bronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo
    No self-respecting developer would include that space in real XML or XHTML.
    Not to Hijack this thread, but...

    For me, I knew it was not a requirement (the space b4 the slash) but I did not realize that some would consider that bad coding technique/practice... After all, all my computer science college courses taught this style of coding.

    When would that extra space ever cause problems?

    Maybe I am not understanding your response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhulse
    When would that extra space ever cause problems?
    Never. But it indicates that the author is used to serving XHTML markup as HTML, which means that s/he is just using XHTML markup for the sake of it, not because there is an actual need for it. (You can't use any technical benefits of XHTML when it's served as text/html.)

    It makes you look like an amateur in the eyes of those who know. It may not matter to you, of course, but it might be detrimental to your credibility.

    See the XHTML vs HTML FAQ for more information, to keep this thread from straying off topic.
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  15. #15
    .* draziW tnioPetiS *. bronze trophy
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    Ah, thanks for link.

    I have to say though, I have not met anyone who has mentioned this before... but maybe that is because I have always used a transitional DTD.

    Not too continue this convo, but it seems like so many top-notch/popular web folks are making this mistake.

    Strict DTD:
    http://www.mezzoblue.com/
    http://www.stopdesign.com/
    http://simon.incutio.com/
    http://www2.jeffcroft.com/

    I have yet to read the FAQ you mention, so maybe in a transitional DTD, the space is acceptable...

    Transitional DTD:
    http://www.simplebits.com/
    http://boxofchocolates.ca/
    http://www.sitepoint.com/
    http://www.zeldman.com/

    I guess I should read that FAQ now...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhulse
    Not too continue this convo, but it seems like so many top-notch/popular web folks are making this mistake.
    All of the sites you linked to are using pretend-XHTML. In other words, they're not really using XHTML at all, but rather HTML with syntax errors (as far as user agents are concerned).

    Quote Originally Posted by mhulse
    I have yet to read the FAQ you mention, so maybe in a transitional DTD, the space is acceptable...
    Strict or Transitional has nothing to do with it. The space is recommended for XHTML markup that is being served as HTML. It is pointless (but harmless) in XHTML served as XML.

    It's not 'unacceptable' in any way, but I don't like it when people say that it is required in XHTML. It is not. It's a silly habit, that's all. I've even seen people include that space in XML data files.

    Since real XHTML is useless except for niche audiences, I'd recommend that you keep the space as long as you're using pretend-XHTML. Just be aware that it is a hack to make it possible to sneak XHTML markup past user agents that don't support XHTML. It has nothing to do with XML or XHTML as such.
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  17. #17
    .* draziW tnioPetiS *. bronze trophy
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    @AutisticCuckoo:

    Ah, I understand now. Thanks for filling me in.

    This FAQ is great btw. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, I really appreciate it. Adding to my del.icio.us for future ref.

    @AllForNerds:

    Right on... Hehe, learning something new every day.

    Lol, I am kinda glad I learned how to code using XHTML though... even if it is just pretend-xhtml. Old-school coding is soooo hard to read.

    And sorry original poster, I did not mean to hijack... my bad.

    Cheers.
    Micky
    Last edited by mhulse; Aug 9, 2006 at 01:53. Reason: Bad spelling... doh!

  18. #18
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    Thanks, I stand, or rather sit corrected...

    Here is a basic page that dreamweaver 8 opens when you ask for a new blank page:

    Code:
    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
    <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
    <title>Untitled Document</title>
    </head>
    
    <body>
    </body>
    </html>
    So you are telling me that every page that I and thousands of others have created since Dw8 came out is 'wrong'. That really sucks!

    I just looked at simplebits (transitional) and mezzoblue (strict) from Micky's examples (thanks Micky!) and BOTH use the space slash method of ending unpaired tags... So it looks like I'm in good company there, they seem to be some of the 'standards bearers' for web design.

    PS How about helping Shannon with his/her menu problem which is what I was trying to do, but obviously failed at.. I took the time this morning to download the gallery page and it's css, then I commented out the inline css and, yes, the menu font 'grew' to be the same as on the other pages...

    Aloha nui loa!
    Last edited by colinmcc; Aug 9, 2006 at 09:42.

  19. #19
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by colinmcc
    So you are telling me that every page that I and thousands of others have created since Dw8 came out is 'wrong'.
    Not wrong. Just silly.

    Since XHTML cannot be used in the real world (since it's not supported by IE which a vast majority still uses ... for some reason), 99.99% of all purported XHTML pages are served as text/html. That means they will be handled as HTML by all user agents (except markup validators). Macromedia knows this, and offers a template that will let beginners believe that they're hip and cool by using XHTML, while still ensuring that they don't actually have to go through the trouble of learning anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by colinmcc
    I just looked at simplebits (transitional) and mezzoblue (strict) from Micky's examples (thanks Micky!) and BOTH use the space slash method of ending unpaired tags... So it looks like I'm in good company there, they seem to be some of the 'standards bearers' for web design.
    These guys aim for the widest possible audience, which include IE users and users with ancient Netscape browsers etc. They cannot serve their XHTML as application/xhtml+xml, because only a tiny minority of web standards geeks running Opera/Firefox/Safari would be able to read their blogs. When serving it as HTML, they must make sure that old pre-XHTML browsers don't choke on the bad markup, so they include the space to be on the safe side.
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  20. #20
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    Mahalo Tommy,

    I now 'get' the reason for your comments, I hope my post above wasn't too abrasive, I was sitting at my desk waiting for the first cup of coffee to 'hit'


    I guess my past pages will have to stay in the 'silly' camp, I seem to be in good company there!

    I'll drop back to html 4.01 for the site I'm doing at present however.

    sdamos

    If you enclose the .navtext element of your inline css in gallery.php in css comments /* and */ then your menu goes to the same size as the other pages, thus:

    Code:
    /* .navtext {
    	font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    	font-size: 13px;
    	font-weight: bold;
    	font-style: normal;
    }*/
    So yes, you have set a size for this class in globalcss.css and then overwritten it on this page only using the cascade of css. I notice you also override several other classes font sizes in the inline css on this page, did you intend to do this or can you just remove the whole inline block of css?

    Problem solved (I think)

  21. #21
    The CSS Clinic is open silver trophybronze trophy
    Paul O'B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colinmcc
    Problem solved (I think)
    Yes you are correct as i was just looking at this also and the style block has been illegally placed in the middle of the table (!!) and the font-size over-ridden with 13px instead of 14px. Even though the style block is illegal in the middle there, nearly all browers will still parse the styles although the page is totally invaiid (this is a common technique used in html emails but is not recommended for proper pages.).

    Code:
    		 <td align="center" valign="top"><table width="680" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
    			<tr>
    			 <td width="110" align="LEFT" valign="top"><p align="center"><span class="mainfont"><strong>Photo Gallery<br>
    			 Navigation:<br>
    			 </strong></span>
    			 <style>
    td{ font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;}
    input{ font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;}
    a:link {
    color: #000000;
    text-decoration: none;
    }
    a:visited {
    text-decoration: none;
    color: #000000;
    }
    a:hover {
    text-decoration: underline overline;
    }
    a:active {
    text-decoration: none;
    color: #000000;
    }
    .navtext {
    font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 13px;
    font-weight: bold;
    font-style: normal;
    }
    .footer {
    font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 13px;
    }
    .footer2 {
    font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 10px;
    font-weight: normal;
    }
    .lowernav {
    font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 10px;
    color: #000000;
    }
    .mailinglisttext {
    font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 12px;
    color: #FFFFFF;
    font-weight: bold;
    }
    .submitbutton {
    border: #232F47;
    font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 10px;
    background-color: #CCCCCC;
    font-weight: bolder;
    }
    .addressbox {
    font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 10px;
    border: thin solid #000000;
    }
    .radiobutton {
    border: #232F47;
    font-size: 10px;
    }
    .mainfont {
    font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 13px;
    }
    .iqtextbox {
    font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 12px;
    border: thin dashed #000000;
    background-color: #CCCCCC;
    }
    .headertext {
    font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 16px;
    font-weight: 600;
    }
    </style>
    			 <table border=0 width=90% align=center>
    			 <tr>
    				<td align=center><br>
    				 <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0>
    				 <tr>
    				 <td width=15 valign=top style="padding-top:5px;">&bull; </td>
    				 <td valign=top style="padding-top:5px;"><a href=/gallery.php?category_id=5&parent_id=0>Don Mattingly and Family</a></td>
    Remove that whole block and tidy the code up a bit please

  22. #22
    Brevity is greatly overrated brandaggio's Avatar
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    colinmcc, if you use Firefox you will find the HTML Validator extension invaluable.

    Double-click the Validator's icon in the lower right to bring up the apps interface and options.

    You can set it to whatever doctype you require and fairly safely convert the pages that are giving you trouble.

    You will also need to use the W3C Online HTML Validator as a second line of defense.

    You also should be aware of a similar tool for CSS.

  23. #23
    SitePoint Addict sdamos's Avatar
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    Ok, I agree, that should fix it, but here is what baffles me. When I view the code in Dreamweaver it does not show the string of styles, it only shows the reference to globalcss.css. When I view source while the page is loaded, live, I can see the code styles listed just as you have shown in this thread.

    Inside the css file it is already 14px, but some mystery code is being pulled up from no where. What is happening here?

  24. #24
    The CSS Clinic is open silver trophybronze trophy
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    When I view the code in Dreamweaver it does not show the string of styles, it only shows the reference to globalcss.css
    We have already explained that it is the style block that you have inserted illegally inside your table that is causing the problem and dreamweaver will take no notice of it because it shouldn't be there.

    However browsers do take notice of it and apply the 13px that you have put in that illegal style block due to the cascade rules where later styles will over-ride earlier styles.

    It isn't coming from nowhere - YOU PUT IT THERE !!

    I din't think the answer could be much simplere lol

  25. #25
    .* draziW tnioPetiS *. bronze trophy
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    "Then I figure the most good good guy will win."
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdamos
    Inside the css file it is already 14px, but some mystery code is being pulled up from no where. What is happening here?
    It has been a couple years since I used DW templates and such, but maybe DW is pulling-in those styles from a library object (is that what they are called... I forget the DW-specific lingo - I moved-on to using PHP instead.)

    Are you viewing the page in "code view" and it is not showing up? The gallery page specifically?

    I would imagine it has to do with your template setup... are you nesting templates?

    Hard for me/us to help you pinpoint without actually seeing your template setup.


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