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  1. #1
    Extremists Beware! Rockrz's Avatar
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    Any Ideas About Beating Speeding Tickets?

    I got a ticket the other night for 75 in a 65, but I was only going around 68 tops.

    The problem is there was another car hauling butt past me in the far right lane when we passed where the cop was running radar.

    I've been told that these radar guns (not the laser ones) read a wide path and picks up whatever is going the fastest. I'm sure the cop pulled over the wrong person. I'm going to plead not guilty & tell them I want a trial by jury.

    I need to know the name of the nationwide organization that shares evidence with it's members about the inacuracys involved in using the old radar gun technology.

    If anyone could pass on any info, I'd appreciate it
    Rockz
    .

  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard Aes's Avatar
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    Perhaps I'm simply lazy, but to me that seems like overkill -- going to court et cetera over it. Unless the ticket is an abnormally large amount of money, I would probably just pay it and get it over with.

    This doesn't mean that the radar gun issue shouldn't be pursued; you could still find and join that organization I'm sure. I just don't know if I would rather pay the ticket or end up paying more from the trial.

    Good luck though.

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  3. #3
    Extremists Beware! Rockrz's Avatar
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    I do alot of delivery driving and would like to maintain my status of not getting a ticket since 1990.

    Beides, it the principle of it. That car passed me going considerably faster than I was going. He should have gotten the ticket, not me.
    .

  4. #4
    busy Steelsun's Avatar
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    Since your in Texas, I hope it wasn't DPS. If they ticketed you, your gonna lose. Their nearly sole purpose in life is to ticket cars, so they are always considered 'experienced' and 'experts' by the courts and the troopers statement will be accepted over yours. If you do go for a Jury trial, you might have a chance. Dress up nice, but not too nice or flashy. Give the appearance of a common person who was mistakenly pulled over. The jury may buy it.

    If it was a county or city cop (in Houston we have Metro (i.e. bus line) cops too), then you might have a chance on the 'inexperienced user' issue, but again it's doubtful.

    You can hire a lawyer, there are usally several advertising in the paper or greensheet (I think austin has one), and they fight traffic tickets for about the price of a ticket ($100-150). With them you're almost guaranteed to get the ticket either dismissed or get a suspended sentence, which means if you don't get another ticket for 6 months it'll go away.

    After fighting about 1/2 dozen tickets here in Houston, for now on I'll always go the lawyer route instead of trying it on my own. (But I've been ticket free now for about 5 years).
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  5. #5
    SitePoint Addict Seer's Avatar
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    Ever notice how traffic is sort of like peer pressure?

    If you're sticking to the speed limit, you might as well be paddling upstream. Boston area traffic, if you're not doing 80 in a 65, everyone's going to be passing you. If you don't punch it on a yellow light, you get some angry folk laying the horn on you. And last of all, stopping to let some old lady through the crosswalk might just as well get you shot.

  6. #6
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    Well.... if it is a radar gun.... you may have a chance. The physics envloved in reciveing the reflected light photons from the car it is being pointed at means that the radar guns are in fact off the actual speed the car is doing. If there is no fine for doing below 10km/h over the speed limit (thats what it is here is aust.) you probably have a good chance of winning. But is is such a small amount that I would just pay it

    BTW... apparently if you send them a cheque to pay your fine and add an extra $1 to it, they reemburse you the dollar, and unitl you cash the dollar they dont cash your cheque as if... but anyway... you can get this paint to put on your number plate that makes it invisable to having a picture taken of it.

  7. #7
    Fried Gold Polymath's Avatar
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    Another thing I heard that works (or it has done in the UK) is this:
    You get your fine and have to send off your license to get points put on it. But, you get a friend to write in to the license authorities saying "My friend who got this fine is out of the country, but he asked me to send the fine in for him." He sends the fine, and not the driver's license. The license authorities get the fine-money, and never bother chasing up the license, they only wanted the money in the first place.
    Good idea, I thought.

  8. #8
    SitePoint Addict Seer's Avatar
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    The increase put on your insurance usually hurts more than the ticket. Even though it's easy to just pay and forget, you end up paying it for the next five years or so in the long run.

    I'm not sure how things work in Texas, but I figure it's about the same. If you go to court and the officer that pulled you over doesn't show, you win the case. Most of the time they've got better things to do.

  9. #9
    We like music. weirdbeardmt's Avatar
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    It's maybe not much help now, but if you ever get pulled over by a cop using a radar then you are allowed to ask to see a calibration certificate.

    If they are unable to produce one there, or can't take you to a local police station to show you it, then they can't do you for it.
    I swear to drunk I'm not God.
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  10. #10
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    Just dont be too smart though.... otherwise they will just defect your car

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    We like music. weirdbeardmt's Avatar
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    And, I have just re-read this thread.

    Er. You actually WERE speeding.

    I got a ticket the other night for 75 in a 65, but I was only going around 68 tops.
    It is a little hard to see what you are complaining about!
    I swear to drunk I'm not God.
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  12. #12
    SitePoint Wizard Defender1's Avatar
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    Re: Any Ideas About Beating Speeding Tickets?

    Originally posted by Rockrz
    Any Ideas About Beating Speeding Tickets?
    Yea, don't speed

    Seer, i hear that!
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  13. #13
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    I don't know how it goes in the states but in Holland we normally get a ticket and then you have to protest to it..

    What you always can do is request the serialnr of the device that they checked your speed with. Then the name of the officer the precize location and time the precize date and officer that configured and tested the device (like in the lab) if you were on camera the photo... and then if they deliver al that see how your case is...

    Ohh and another thing if they use laser the precize angle the checked you with.. (they almost never know this ) this can determine the % of accuracy

    If this stuff or the lack off can determine a reasonable doubt or insufficient data to determine the penalty then the DA will not have a choice but to dismiss the case ..
    ...

    But if it's done by the book just pay up..!!

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  14. #14
    SitePoint Evangelist tdevil's Avatar
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    Stay below the limit? Watch the road signs?

  15. #15
    SitePoint Addict Seer's Avatar
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    Originally posted by tdevil
    Stay below the limit? Watch the road signs?
    But the signs go by too fast to read 'em!!

  16. #16
    Extremists Beware! Rockrz's Avatar
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    Thanks, peanuts. Those are some good points. I'll keep them in my notes.

    I'm not going to "just pay" this because I wasn't the one the cop read on the radar, and I will be paying more in insurance premiums, and there is reasonable doubt written all over this.

    I have beaten 4 tickets in my town because the cop never showed up. In fact, the cop actually told me I could contest the ticket while she kinda smiled & shrugged her shoulders as if to see she didn't care (and wouldn't show up if contested...? I hope...)

    I'm just going to find out all I can about whatever
    brand of radar gun our cops use, and find out where
    they are inaccurate. Then I'll see about when this
    paticular radar gun was calibrated last. (I hear it's expensive, and many departments don't calibrate)

    Hey, I got it! I'll play like I'm a big time politician making plans for a damage control campaign. Besides, I'm not working right now, so any money I get goes towards the electric bill, that I'm $700+ behinf on.

    I'm not paying for a ticket. I'm not hiring a lawyer
    either. If I lose in court, I'll just appeal till I win. Who knows. Maybe my case will be the first traffic case heard by the US Supreme Court! I'm susre my folks would be proud....(just kidding...)

    Rockrz
    .

  17. #17
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    Re: Re: Any Ideas About Beating Speeding Tickets?

    Originally posted by Defender1
    Yea, don't speed
    That's what I was going to say.

  18. #18
    Extremists Beware! Rockrz's Avatar
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    On the freeway I was one at the time, you can't just
    "not speed". The posted speed limit is 65. Everyone goes at least 70 or better. If you go 65, you'll get tailgated something terrible, so most people just go with traffic, which is what I was doing.

    The car that was passing in the far right lane (I was in the far left lane of this 3 lane highway) was the one going 78, that the cop claimed was locked in at 75.

    I was not going that fast, so the ticket does not belong to me. The burden of proof is on the state, since they are bringing the charge of speeding against me.

    If I get before a jury, they'll know about my years of
    safe, ticket free driving. Then I'll hit 'em with the
    rest of the story about the other car, and about the
    radar gun shooting a wide path & picking up what's
    fastest, and not being as accurate as it should/could be.

    I'll win. Especially since the cop probably won't even show up, and the judge not having much choice but to
    throw it out.
    .

  19. #19
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    you're not going to beat it by anything you do.

    There are too many factors.
    [list=1][*]Type of radar (laser or sonar-style)[*]Maintenance record of the device[*]The fact that you were speeding leaves you without excuse[*]You have any witnesses? If no, how do you intend to prove your point? Your good looks? [/list=1]
    Pay the piper, the fine and slow down. The fact that someone else was going faster is moot. YOU were breaking the law, regardless of anyone else.

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  20. #20
    Extremists Beware! Rockrz's Avatar
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    "You're not going to beat it by anything you do."
    I've already beat 4 tickets in 8 years. I'll beat it this time too.


    "There are too many factors."
    Really? Like what?


    "Type of radar (laser or sonar-style)"
    It's a known fact in this area that standard police issue for radar guns are the sonar type. Only our Highway patrol has the lasar guns, and they only have a little over 400 statewide


    "Maintenance record of the device"
    I'll be calling for this in court. If it's not up-to-date, I walk.


    "The fact that you were speeding leaves you without excuse."
    They cannot prove it since their radar guns are not 100% accurate. If they are considered to be 98% accurate, I'll argue that I'm in that 2%, and they cannot disprove it based on the inaccurancy of their radar gun

    "You have any witnesses? If no, how do you intend to prove your point? Your good looks?"
    The state has no witness either, other than a faulty radar gun


    "Pay the piper, the fine and slow down. The fact that someone else was going faster is moot. YOU were breaking the law, regardless of anyone else."
    This cannot be proven, and I'm certainly not going to tell them!
    .

  21. #21
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    Rockrz...

    While I sympathize with you, you;re just being somewhat belligerent now. Getting a speeding ticket sucks, in fact ,getting pulled over at all sucks. I'll wish you luck, but If you come across in court like you are now I would vote against you in court.
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  22. #22
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    If you're that concerned about your driving record, you never would have been speeding. Regardless of what "everyone else was doing". Give me a break.

    I feel sorry for the jury, wasting their day like that. It's cases like these that everyone dreads jury duty.
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    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    I don';t know where you come from Rockerz, but here in MAryland, traffic violations are not jury trials and the bench (judge) tends to be sympathetic with the state.

    Just claiming innocence does nothing for you in court. The judge is more likely to give credence to a radar gun and an employee of the state, the officer, than a has-been, overused argument such as what you have presented.

    But...let us know what happens with it al. It oughta be interesting.

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  24. #24
    busy Steelsun's Avatar
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    In Texas you have the right to a Jury trial for any criminal case (and speeding or a moving violation is considered one).
    Of course here's how it goes:
    1) You show up at the court on the date on the ticket. Plead not guilty, guilty, or nolo contendre.
    If it's guilty or nolo contendre, you pay the fine or take defensive driving or whatever.
    If it's not guilty, the judge sets a date for the trial and asks if you want a jury or not. Depending on the judge, they may make you pay a bond (refundable, sometimes, and usually equal to twice the cost of the ticket fine) while you are awaiting trial.
    2) show up at the trial, enpanel the jury, prosecuter does their thing, defense does theirs.
    3) Jury decides and that's it.
    Texas limits appeals on minor infractions to a 'cause only' style, i.e. you have to have a reason for the appeal, not just a "I didn't do it." The reason usually is based on a procedural screw up, judge error, or similar.
    Juries in non-damage/injury traffic cases will side on the defendants side about 2/3rds of the time. if you were driving a sports car, were an a$$ in the court room, or if it's a miserable day outside (and they blame you for dragging them there for this mo\inor crap), you'll lose.

    Most cops in Texas will show up for a jury trial. This is for two reasons: 1) Overtime Pay (they get time and a half on their already good hourly scale, and most traffic cops have about 1/4 to 1/3 of their yearly take home from overtime) and 2) Department mandates (the PD will often make an officer go to a jury trial for the public image angle, not showing up does not make a good impression).
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  25. #25
    SitePoint Zealot Kyle_C's Avatar
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    This system has been tried and works in every state.. If you get a speeding ticket or went thought a red light or whatever the case may be, and you're going to get points on your drivers license. This is a method to ensure that you DO NOT get the points.

    When you get your fine, send in a check to pay for it. If the fine is say $79.00 make the check out for more say $82.00 or some small amount over the fine.The system will then have to send you back a check for the difference, however here is the TRICK" DO NOT CASH THE REFUND CHECK !! Throw it away! Points are not assessed to your license until all financial transactions are NOT complete. The system has received its money and is satisfied and will no longer bother you. This information comes from an unmentionable computer company that sets up the standard databases used by every state. Send this to everyone you know. You never know when they need a brake.....


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