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  1. #26
    SitePoint Member oxyscripts's Avatar
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    I can't believe a Sitepoint member is asking how he should send SPAM on behalf of his client.

    It's like someone was asking "how can i help my friend scam on eBay?"

    SPAM is a nightmare for everyone on the internet, and the most serious threat to e-commerce. Phishing is also a form of spam.

    In most Occidental countries you can face thousands of dollars of fines per single unsolicited email sent.

    Just say NO to your "client".

  2. #27
    SitePoint Member Carbine18's Avatar
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    i read somewhere that

    If one million copies of a typical spam message are sent, approximately 750,000 will be automatically filtered and deleted, 150,000 will be ignored or deleted after reading the subject line, 99,999 will be ignored or deleted after reading the message, and one will generate a sale.

  3. #28
    SitePoint Addict will_'s Avatar
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    On a side note, if you happen to run the server that hosts this client, move him somewhere else now. I wouldn't want the liability of someone interested in spamming sending mail from my server. It would likely have negative impact on my IP addresses, and all the other clients I host.

  4. #29
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy C. Ankerstjerne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbine18
    i read somewhere that...
    From what I've heard, the sales generated by spam are quite good. What we don't consider, is that some people click on everything (including those flashing banners with 'Your computer is infected' and so on).
    Christian Ankerstjerne
    <p<strong<abbr/HTML/ 4 teh win</>
    <>In Soviet Russia, website codes you!

  5. #30
    SitePoint Guru worchyld's Avatar
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    Is he actually talking about buying a list? What if that list has gotten double opt in and share my details with third parties ticked? Is it still illegal to send them email? Is that what the original poster was asking?

    If not, ask him to clarify what he means by sending mass e-mail, is it from an approved list company, is it from anywhere? If it sounds like he's sending spam, just ask him "Are you aware of the current anti spam laws?" and then say something like "Well part of my responsibilities as a web developer is to ensure that my clients are well briefed on the do's and dont's of e-marketing. " and then lead into your main objection, otherwise it sounds like your kicking up a fuss (or don't want to do the work).

  6. #31
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
    molona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ankerstjerne
    From what I've heard, the sales generated by spam are quite good. What we don't consider, is that some people click on everything (including those flashing banners with 'Your computer is infected' and so on).
    Very true.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corobori
    For me the problem would stop by itself if SPAM didn't work but I reckon it is working. How on earth can I educate my wife who just open any mails reaching her inbox and actually mail/call a few people back ? Unfortunately I think out there a lot of people are like her.
    Now, THAT's a problem there...

  8. #33
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    I am sorry if this may be a repeat - I read a portion of the replies.

    Why dont you go to an ezinedirectory, and pay for advertising on targeted newsletters. This way it is NOT spam at all... you are paying for a service, and the company you pay is responsible for following the rules of email. I would advise you to first sign up to any list first to see what they are all about. Naturally your client expects to pay you money, so what is the difference really? Unless I sign up for something I delete it RIGHT AWAY.

    Happy to be of service for any more marketing questions

    Best of luck

    Andrea
    Last edited by marketingtheweb; Jul 26, 2006 at 07:09. Reason: to add signature...new to site, so just learned about this feature. Thanks
    www.chooseadirection.com
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  9. #34
    SitePoint Member deplex's Avatar
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    Do it, charge him alot. Nothing will come back to you.

    I also agree that you should inform him of the other advertising avenues he should try.
    Weblett: Coming Soon.

  10. #35
    SitePoint Member deplex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxyscripts
    I can't believe a Sitepoint member is asking how he should send SPAM on behalf of his client.
    Get over it

    Quote Originally Posted by oxyscripts
    It's like someone was asking "how can i help my friend scam on eBay?"
    No its not.

    [QUOTE=oxyscripts]SPAM is a nightmare for everyone on the internet, and the most serious threat to e-commerce. Phishing is also a form of spam.[QUOTE]

    I agree it might be annoying, gmail filters 95% of spam out of my email inbox, give them a try.

    Most serious threat to e-commerce? Where did you get that from? SPAM obviously works and makes people alot of money and as long as its done right its not too bad.

    [QUOTE=oxyscripts]In most Occidental countries you can face thousands of dollars of fines per single unsolicited email sent.[QUOTE]

    How come I get spam emails from yell, dell and other large companies. The same can be said for malware and pop-ups/unders. The work, large corps use the techniques as it works.

    Maybe the client wanting to send some emails is simple after money and wants to advertise his products/services to millions of people. Its the companies sending the actual emails using botnets which would be taken to court.
    Weblett: Coming Soon.

  11. #36
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    How about having your client setup a newsletter for their website? This way the newsletter has the option to where members may remove their email.

  12. #37
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    Seriously itís not worth doing. I had my hosting account disabled about 24hrs ago because one of my email users used webmail and sent out an email to 20 contacts. That was flagged as spam and my hosting account has been permanently disabled and that means no SSH access or FTP access so I cant even transfer the site.

    And its only after 15 emails did I finally get some answers and im getting SSH access soon to download the site and get a sql dump. But the funny thing is that this user has been sending out emails to the same contacts for the last 6 months, but somehow itís considered spam now.

    So be very careful.

  13. #38
    Non-Member lostseed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldcdc
    Try to educate him then. If he's not listening, then you just have to say no! He might be your client, but you're not his slave.
    rofl

    tell him all the sitepoint members who know what they're talking about suggested all the things as well. Give him a link haha.

  14. #39
    SitePoint Addict Clenard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wardo
    I would explain that spamming would damage his reputation and have a detrimental effect on his web site. Then I would suggest building an opt in mailing list instead.
    I agree 100% !!!


  15. #40
    SitePoint Wizard Pedro Monteiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspen
    There are increasing numbers of anti-spam laws, both criminal and civil, in states & countries around the world. I would tell him no, it is not something you can be a part of, and I would tell him to consult with an attorney that deals in Internet related issues before doing it because you don't want him to end up sued for millions of dollars or end up in prison.

    I'm guessing he won't talk to an attorney at all, and just decide against it.
    I find spam to be one of biggest nuisance ( along with myspace ) on the internet.

    But 9 years in jail for sending spam?? Didn't anyone else find this a bit disturbing?

  16. #41
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    Holly...
    This is a lot of replies

    And some are very, very helpful. What I concluded is:
    1. That we should create him newsletter with legitimate subscribe/unsubscribe;
    2. I can find companies which can legaly send emails to their lists (please recommend some);
    3. I can ask my client to visit Google and try his luck;
    4. I shouldn't send mails myself;
    5. I mustn't allow him to send it via my web server.

    Would you add something to this list?

    P.S. Thanks everyone for their reply.

  17. #42
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    molona's Avatar
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    There are companies that specialized in having server only for big mailings, they charge for e-mail sent (something like 0.05 cents per mail, or a flat rate, depending on the type of service you contract). This is very useful when you have an ezine or a mailing in a regular basis, because your servers doesn't need to waste their resources for this.

    Obviously, it would be up to him if the addresses are legal or not. I suggest the legal path... It generates more sales in the long term because it ends up to be more targetted (only the people that are really interested will keep the subscription)

  18. #43
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    my 3 gr :-), at least, how I would do, if needed.

    0. I hope the message is legitimate, not any viagra, cassino, scam etc. I have no experience with this **** except deleting it without reading.

    1. If it is planned to send e-mail to businesses, just buy any business catalogue(s) from the target contry on CD.

    2. If it is planned for private persons, you may contact gratis webmail sites owners in target country, who usually have right and possibility to send limited amounts of ads to their users. They should approximately know their age and intrests. Of course, the service is not gratis and they should refuse immoral messages.

    However, if you think, your clients plans are bad smelling, just refuse it, at least to save your reputation and perhaps lot of legal troubles.

    Good luck :-)
    Basia

  19. #44
    SitePoint Member atwba's Avatar
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    I agree with the opt-in email approach, or simply discouraging them. Explaining things to your client is important. They may be taking this approach because they do not understand how things work. They may consider this a very good option, until you advise them otherwise.

    ~Kristen
    Kristen@UltimateWebDesign.Org
    Ultimate Web Design. Org
    The Future is Now

  20. #45
    SitePoint Wizard mcsolas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papaja
    It is my client, I cannot simply say NO.
    You can always say no if you dont agree with the ethical nature of a clients request. It is then up to them to go find someone else to break laws. In the long run, your probably better off.

    Of course its hard to say no to a good client. Another effective technique just dragging your feet until he gives up on it. Doesn't always work, but I just make doing the right thing 'easier' form them and keep em focused on that.

    Clients will tell you what they want 1000's of different ways:
    I want: #1 in the searches, mass mail, millions of hits

    Clients need to see a growing base of legitimate visitors coming in to interact with the site (make purchases,etc). Thats what they really need. There are plenty of ways to legitimately grow your business on the web.

    Using spam can get you blacklisted, and probably also attracts a lower quality level of purchasers. Then your stuck with more chargebacks and your merchant account just got CANCELLED. Good luck.

  21. #46
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    As everyone already suggested, tell him to go for an opt-in list. It is about the same thing as spamming but at least it is legal.

  22. #47
    SitePoint Addict Iceman90's Avatar
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    The company I am working for is sending solicited email (the people recieving it have opted int our list on our website), 2 times a week.

    What we found is doing it in-house is not ideal. We've hired a company that will manage our database, unsubscribes, bounces, etc. I'd suggest he finds a system like this. It makes it easy to send out the newsletters, and even easier having someone manage the database.

  23. #48
    SitePoint Evangelist optl's Avatar
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    You need to convince your client that spamming emails is not the most effective way of advertisement.
    For the phrase "Bethesda home architect", my clients
    websites occupy 6 of the first 8 results
    on the 1st page of Google. My Secret SEO Strategy Revealed

  24. #49
    SitePoint Enthusiast Labrocca's Avatar
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    Just have him read this thread.

  25. #50
    SitePoint Addict FizixRichard's Avatar
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    I'm not sure where this stands in the US, but this is based on things in the UK.

    When I was back in college our law lecturer was talking about the Data Protection Act, which in the EU is a legislation that is global (everyone has to abide by it) that states that you will not compromise or assist in compromising private data about individuals.


    Simply put, if you disclose data about individuals within the EU, or assist in it, without having that persons explicit permission to do so you can get fined and even go to prison.

    Also our lecturer pointed out that most purchases of email address, telephone numbers and other information used for unsolicited advertising is obtained or sold illegally.

    Just something too think about. I know there are a million companies/people out there selling peoples information and masses of SPAM floating about because of it, but if you or the client are in the EU, tread carefully because "everyone else is doing it" doesn't make it legal.
    FIZIX - Full Service Digital Agency - Engaging websites, apps and games.
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