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  1. #76
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    molona's Avatar
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    Well, just in case that you didn't have enough opinions here is mine (even if it comes a bit late)

    It is unethical, selfish and dishonest. And you know that.

    It is irrelevant if he is your friend or not. You'd be acting on preferential information because he contacted the company and told you about it, and because you know exactly what his weaks points are.

    If he never commented his business with you, you wouldn't know that this company would like to have their site changed and you would have never considered to contact that company.

    But now that you know (thanks to your "friend") you want this because it looks like easy business for you. You know that your "friend" is rubbish building sites, and clueless when it comes to e-commerce. It would be so easy to guarantee the income...

    Would you have considered to contact the company if you didn't know that they were thinking about changing the site?

    Would you have cosidered to offer your services to them if you knew that your friend was as good as you are, if not better?

    Anyway, how much do you know of the agreement he may reach with this company? Maybe he offered his services for a very cheap price, and told them that he never handled a project like that, but that he believed himself able to do so and that it would be good learning for him. Maybe, the company liked their honesty and his willingness to go further.

    Maybe he'd be subcontracting part of the work.

    I would offer him to share the project, reach an agreement with him. If he doesn't want this partnership, or if you don't want to help him, I would find some other company. This is not the only project in the world and there are more fishes in the sea.

    And learn from your "friend". He was proactive where you were not. He offered his services just in case they could need anything from him.

  2. #77
    SitePoint Member deplex's Avatar
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    Dont worry about the guy, maybe it will teach him a lesson.

    I know im probably more like this friend from college as I still use frontpage etc but at the end of the day, I only make money because I get the customers. The biggest webdev company I know who has many employees and have many large contracts still use tables and most of their sites dont work in Firefox. They still make money and get many webdesigning jobs because they are business minded.

    You have to stop thinking about your competitors as people but as enemy companies who want to steal your company/wife/life
    Weblett: Coming Soon.

  3. #78
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    molona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deplex
    You have to stop thinking about your competitors as people but as enemy companies who want to steal your company/wife/life
    Now, that's what I call positive thinking

    If we all think like this, ethics wouldn't exist, we'd all jump to our competitors throat
    Off Topic:

    BTW, did anyone try to steal your company/wife/life? Interesting comparision... very dramatic effect

  4. #79
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    Stop thinking ethics, and think $. What I am saying is don't get caught up in ohhh how will my friend feel, or how this and that, just do it! Don't go off making schmes to rip others off, but if you have an opportunity to take down a weaker rival, do it!

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarislave
    ohhh how will my friend feel
    The real point is:

    "ohhh how will I feel"

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarislave
    Stop thinking ethics, and think $. What I am saying is don't get caught up in ohhh how will my friend feel, or how this and that, just do it! Don't go off making schmes to rip others off, but if you have an opportunity to take down a weaker rival, do it!
    See we don't know if the 'Friend' confided in the original poster or asked for advice on the impending job because that question was never answered but if that is the case then it would be ethically wrong and furthermore it could be a legal issue.

    It's not about money it's about having principals. There's tons of money about if you're professional, and do some sales but if you get a reputation for ripping people off it can come back to haunt you.
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  7. #82
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    molona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frox
    The real point is:

    "ohhh how will I feel"


    I guess that this guy will not feel very well if he is asking this

  8. #83
    SitePoint Member atwba's Avatar
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    I am sure the company would appreciate having more than one option in designers. I know as a business owner, that once in the market, I would shop around for the best person for the job before making a commitment. I would keep the playing field peaceful though. If he does get the job, maybe you could still make money off of him, by offering to outsource the things he doesn't know how to do.

    Just an idea

    ~ Kristen
    Kristen@UltimateWebDesign.Org
    Ultimate Web Design. Org
    The Future is Now

  9. #84
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    yes you should go for it
    make thousands a month it's so simple
    http://tinyurl.com
    make that extra money every day
    http://tinyurl.com

  10. #85
    SitePoint Member jsjb10's Avatar
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    There are no friends in business

    Seriously, noone got anywhere by looking down to see the toes they were treading on, only by locking eyes on their horizons and moving towards it.

    Dont worry about it, if he cannot compete with you within the price bracket its his problem and he will need to go away and put the effort in to get better so that he can..

    However, if a deal has been made, dont steal it.. Go elsewhere and accept you missed out.

    End of..


  11. #86
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    I believe that everyone here is agreed that business is business and that it is an open market. Pitch on whatever job you like.

    The question here is how did the individual who posted this question find out about the 'friends' prospective involvement in the job. Did the 'friend' ask this individual for advice or collaboration or was this just word on the street?

    Our community (I mean the one I work in) is very tight. My firm works with and collaborates with about a dozen other design firms. As a result, if I know one of those firms is involved in a prospect first, I leave it alone. Odds are I'll be contracted to do the development anyway.

    Unless you've got sociopathic tendencies, you already know what's right and if you play your cards right you'll have more than enough work to keep you busy.
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  12. #87
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    Two Scenarios

    One - your best friend, who happens to be in the same business, is sitting with you in a bar and tells you he has a bid in for a particular piece of business and really hopes he gets it. He lays out what he thinks he can do for them, and what he has learned about what they need. You were vaguely aware they were in the market, but until this moment had no real plans to go after the business. You decide to see if you can slide in a bid in time and get the business.

    Two - a company puts out a request for proposal for a new website, and it turns out that you want to respond to it, along with everyone else from your local webmaster community that is looking for work. Either you take a vow of poverty or you compete against people you know, and, sometimes, actually like.

    In the first case, if you go after the business, you are a snake in the grass. If there is any justice in the world, not only do you lose the business, but your girlfriend, whom you adore, leaves for your friend.

    In the second case, hey, that's business. In most businesses, if you are a nice enough guy to get along with the people you run into at industry events, you end up competing against your friends all the time.

    I can't tell which scenario your situation is closer to.

    On proposing to do the work together - I wouldn't. I would rather miss a dozen pieces of business (not that I do web design) than pick up a partner I didn't really like.

  13. #88
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    From personal expierance.

    Am currently sitting in an office working on a very complex website which is a total mess, things don't work, whoever wrote the code had no idea what they were doing. The graphics look like my 10 yo made them on a high food additive day. And the company who wanted the website "last year" are not happy.

    Thus far they have paid for

    1. The moron who made the mess in the first place.

    2. My company, and that's an on going bill.

    3. A graphics company to redo the various flashy bits.

    End of day they are going to pay approx 4x the budget for this project.

    Now presupposing your ex friend knows zip about designing a decent web site, then you are at the end of the day doing the company in question a favour.

    People still publish webpages from frontpage

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salient
    Now presupposing your ex friend knows zip about designing a decent web site, then you are at the end of the day doing the company in question a favour.

    People still publish webpages from frontpage
    In your argument, you are asuming that the initial poster knows more than the 'friend' about web development. This may be the case however a quick peruse of recent posts show that he is also quite new to eCommerce and back end development. He's learning quick but... so may be the 'friend'.
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  15. #90
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Tyssen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarislave
    Stop thinking ethics, and think $.
    At the risk of sounding like a tree-hugger, that's the sort of attitude that is killing this planet.

  16. #91
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    I'm with you Tyssen. You don't have to sacrifice ethics to be successfull. As a matter of fact, ethics, character and long-term success kind of go hand-in-hand.
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development


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