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  1. #1
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    Quick, blame it on the birds!

    Nov. 13 ? Investigators examining one of the separated engines from American Airlines Flight 587 found foreign debris inside, indicating that the engine may have ingested a flock of birds and then caught on fire.
    http://www.msnbc.com/news/656892.asp?cp1=1

    Maybe, maybe not but i'm finding this one a bit hard to swallow. We've had discussions about how the media works before, so i'm wondering what people think of this one. Considering what could have happened, suggesting birds were the cause is probably the one thing that would release blame from not only the Airline but the possibility of another terrorist attack.
    With the damage that this caused and the potential further damage I really woulldn't be suprised if this is someones plan. The local paper I recieved states that the Airline was warned a month ago of engine problems related to this plane. As far as birds go, i'm really impressed that they could come to this idea so soon, considering any remains would likely be incinerated.
    Everything has been figured out, except how to live. - Jean-Paul Sartre (1905-1980)

  2. #2
    Gone!
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    Yes, and if a planes engine could be "broken" by the odd bird being sucked inside then I am sure that we would have had a lot more tradedies than this through the same cause.

    Its like saying "the car accident was caused because rain got in under the bonnet", that was a really awful example and very crude but I hope you know what I mean!

  3. #3
    Anyone seen my cypher? OneChance's Avatar
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  4. #4
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    not saying the airline isn't at fault, nor am I saying Kennedy airport isn't at fault, but realistically, it could be birds. If you know anything about NYC, then you know Kennedy sits on Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge. The plane was flying over Jamaica Bay. It's very possible it could be birds.

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  5. #5
    One website at a time mmj's Avatar
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    Well I know it's a reality in single engine aircraft and it has happened throughout history. By the way, has anyone ever seen Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade? See it again.

    It is extremely rare though that the failure of only one engine on a two engine plane could have caused this. Had the engine not detached from the wing, doing major damage to the wing, the plane would have been able to continue flying safely.

    Therefore, surely for this to happen this aircraft must have had a major weakness or problem, don't you think?
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  6. #6
    SitePoint Addict Seer's Avatar
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    Originally posted by OneChance
    Check this out: http://www.birdstrike.org/events/signif.htm
    Thanks for the link.

    Date: 03 June 1995
    Aircraft: Concorde
    Airport: John F. Kennedy (NY)
    Phase of Flight: Landing roll
    Effect on Flight: Aircraft was towed to gate
    Damage: Engines
    Wildlife Species: Canada geese
    Comments from Report: Aircraft ingested a Canada goose into the #3 engine which had an uncontained failure causing parts to go into the #4 engine. Both engines were destroyed. Flames and smoke were seen coming from both engines. Cost was over $9 million. Aircraft was out of service for 5 days. The NY Port Authority paid $5.3 million in compensation for losses.

    I would never have guessed a bird could do such damage. Canadian Geese are pretty big birds, i've been chased by a few on occasion.

    "History: The first fatal accident occurred in 1912. Since 1960, about 400 aircraft have been destroyed and over 370 people killed as a result of bird and other wildlife strikes."

    That statistic just nearly doubled in one day.
    Everything has been figured out, except how to live. - Jean-Paul Sartre (1905-1980)

  7. #7
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by mmj
    Well I know it's a reality in single engine aircraft and it has happened throughout history. By the way, has anyone ever seen Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade? See it again.

    It is extremely rare though that the failure of only one engine on a two engine plane could have caused this. Had the engine not detached from the wing, doing major damage to the wing, the plane would have been able to continue flying safely.

    Therefore, surely for this to happen this aircraft must have had a major weakness or problem, don't you think?
    umm, yeah, but we're not talking about sparrows. We're talking about freakin' geese or likely other mid-size bird. One story I read had a 757 virtually belly flopping in an emergency landing because it inhaled a FLOCK of geese. I have my money on the birds in those situations.
    B-b-b-bird-bird-bird. Da bird is da word. B-b-b-bird-bird-bird Bird is da word!

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  8. #8
    SitePoint Addict Seer's Avatar
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    Here's a chilling one...

    http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/11/13/plane.crash.sailor/

    "A U.S. Navy sailor who had just returned to the United States from war duty in the Arabian Sea aboard the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise was killed in Monday's jetliner crash in New York, Navy officials said."

    I read in the local paper that another victim was one of the WTC survivors.

    That's really disheartening.
    Everything has been figured out, except how to live. - Jean-Paul Sartre (1905-1980)

  9. #9
    SitePoint Addict Seer's Avatar
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    Some additional info.

    "Narrative
    On July 9, 1998, at 1130 gmt, an American Airlines Airbus A300, N70072,
    lost an engine in flight for unknown reasons. Upon landing, and after
    taxiing off the runway, the brakes caught fire and all main landing
    gear tires deflated. The incident is being investigated by the British
    Air Accidents Investigation Branch."
    http://nasdac.faa.gov/lib/vtopic.exe...&RN=DCA98WA066



    Examination of the CFM 56-3 engine,
    manufactured by CFM International, revealed that a first-stage fan blade failed,
    which caused the engine to vibrate. A metallurgical examination indicated that the
    blade failed because of "soft-body" impact damage. Results from the investigation
    indicate that the engine ingested frozen blue lavatory fluid ("blue ice") that had
    been leaking from the lavatory service panel forward of the engine inlet.

    http://nasdac.faa.gov/lib/vtopic.exe...27%29&ss=4&RN=

    On January 16, 1989, a Boeing 737-300, operating as Continental Airlines flight 137,
    was diverted to Des Moines, Iowa, after an in-flight engine shutdown. The flight
    ended without injury to passengers or crew. The engine manufacturer has documented at least 10 prior occurrences of ice
    ingestion into CFM International or General Electric engines. These occurrences
    began in November 1979 and involved Boeing 737-300, McDonnell Douglas DC-10, and
    Airbus A300 airplanes. Mbst of the occurrences were recorded at cruise condition
    and at altitudes from flight level 290 to flight level 350.

    FAA LTR DTD: 1/26/96

    The FAA has completed its review of the service experience of Boeing 707, 737, 757,
    and 767 series airplanes; McDonnell Douglas DC-8, DC-10, and MD-11 series airplanes;
    Lockheed L1011 series airplanes; Airbus A300, A310, A320 series airplanes; and
    British Aerospace BAe-146 series airplanes to determine if inspections of the engine
    mount/pylon structures should be conducted following encounters with severe
    turbulence in which the airplane experiences large variations in roll and yaw
    attitude. The FAA's review showed no record of permanent deformations of the engine
    mount structure due to severe turbulence. Based on results of the review, the FAA
    concludes that inspection requirements in the present maintenance procedures are
    sufficient and that no additional inspection requirements are warranted.

    NTSB LTR DTD: 3/21/96

    The Safety Board notes that the FAA has completed its review of the service
    experience of Boeing 707, 737, 757, and 767; McDonnell Douglas DC-8, DC-10, and MD-
    11; Lockheed L-1011; Airbus A300, A310, and A320; ;and British Aerospace BAe-146
    series airplanes. That review found no record of permanent deformations of the
    engine mount structures because of severe turbulence. Because the FAA review meets
    the intent of this recommendation, the Safety Board classifies Safety Recommendation
    A-94-10 "Closed Acceptable Action."

    http://nasdac.faa.gov/lib/vtopic.exe...27%29&ss=4&RN=
    Everything has been figured out, except how to live. - Jean-Paul Sartre (1905-1980)

  10. #10
    Digital Warrior Renegade's Avatar
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    I didn't see anything in birdstrike.org that said the engine fell off, and explosions were the result of bird strikes. Maybe I didn't read far enough.

    This tragedy seems a bit extreme to be a bird.. of any size...
    --There's my 1.5 cents, now where is my change!?!?

  11. #11
    SitePoint Wizard Ian Glass's Avatar
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    If you want another sad coincidence: Apparently, one of the widows’s, of a firefighter who died at the WTC, father was on the plane. She also lived in the neighborhood where the plane crashed. I don’t remember where I herd this, but I think it was on a newsbreak or something.

    Now, that sucks. That really, really sucks...

  12. #12
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    If that's true it is tragic. Life can be so cruel.
    There was a similar coincidence on Sept 11th involving brits. If I remember correctly, a man was working in the WTC who's sister was on one of the planes. I believe he survived, but what bitter irony. Her plane shouldn't have been anywhere near NY, he had no idea she was on it till much later.
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  13. #13
    SitePoint Wizard Ian Glass's Avatar
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    I haven't heard anything else about that for a few days. That's one of those stories that I thing would be reported on extensively, so I'm beginning to doubt its validity. I hope it's not true.
    There was a similar coincidence on Sept 11th involving brits. If I remember correctly, a man was working in the WTC who's sister was on one of the planes. I believe he survived, but what bitter irony. Her plane shouldn't have been anywhere near NY, he had no idea she was on it till much later.
    There are any number of those coincidences when you're talking buildings where 50,000 people work. Far, far too many...


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