flash intros

[kennethtks]

To me, when I see a flash intro, I don't just skip the intro, I skip the whole site.

Nice quote. I second that. Content is the king, not animation of the site.

[rjm1982]

"Nice quote. I second that. Content is the king, not animation of the site"

So you would prefer plain white sites with black text then?

The thing that sets the web apart from print, its that its dynamic...both in content and in design. If you prefer the 1990s BBS style internet though, have at it.

[stymiee]

"Nice quote. I second that. Content is the king, not animation of the site"

So you would prefer plain white sites with black text then?

A useless animation does nothing to enhance the user experience or improve the content of the website or the delivery of that content. A site can be dynamic and intelligent at the same time. A flash animation rarely falls under that category. A flash interface does but doesn't fall under the scopes of this discussion.

What's interesting is it seems the backers of flash animations all have them on their websites and/or offer them as a primary service.

[rjm1982]

"What's interesting is it seems the backers of flash animations all have them on their websites and/or offer them as a primary service."

Would it not be absurd to champion a technology without using it?

And offering flash as a primary service? No. Our primary service is delivering what the client wants. If the client wants flash, we do it. If its something like a loader which will cost them $$ and not help to generate revenue, we will tell them that, if they still want it, we give it, and make it as freindly as possible.

What seems more truthfull, is that people against flash, don't fully know how to use it...and therefore shouldn't possibly be able to judge its usage.

As I've said before, its not the flash thats annoying, its the site creator.

[obliquegeek]

Flash is here to stay and it will only get bigger. We all need to stop turning our backs on it a embrace it, then maybe, just maybe, somewhere down the line it will be used as it should, quietly and effectively, enhancing our experiences on the web like nothing else can, instead of detracting from them.

As for flash intros, I can't stand them. But the same goes for any splash page flash or HTML, there's just no need. I prefer the sites that, if they insist on a flash intro, have a 'watch our intro' button on the homepage. That way I get to choose without being put off.

[plnelson]

What seems more truthfull, is that people against flash, don't fully know how to use it...and therefore shouldn't possibly be able to judge its usage.

This is complete nonsense, because many of the people who are against it are not designers, but plain old site VISITORS. The visitors are PERFECTLY capable of judging its usage because they are the ones who have to sit through "loading" progress bars, or nothing at all if they are running IE with ActiveX turned off (as any sensible person should).

[plnelson]

Flash is here to stay and it will only get bigger. We all need to stop turning our backs on it a embrace it, then maybe, just maybe, somewhere down the line it will be used as it should, quietly and effectively, enhancing our experiences on the web like nothing else can, instead of detracting from them.

That's like embracing polyester leisure suits or tailfins on cars.

It doesn't enhance anything. USABILITY is the bottom line: the ability to go to a website and instantly and intuitively understand whatever you need to do to accomplish your objective there - buy something, find information, etc. There is nothing about Flash that makes those things easier, faster, or better.

Amazon's "one click" purchasing concept was a far more insightful grasp of good web design than all the Flash designers ever born will ever have.

[HAWK]

The thing I like about the web is that I get to make choices. I get to decide what I want to look at and what I want to read. It is ABOUT ME.

When you put a Flash intro onto a site, or inject big flash movies all over the place, you are taking the control away from me. You are telling me that I will watch what you have decided I should watch.

Well, you can bugger off.

[rjm1982]

pnelson, we get it, you dont like flash....

You want plain boring sites with no design sense because design is nothing to you, you've made your point.

And like i said in the other thread, your activex argument is trash...so no, "any sensible person" wouldnt have it turned off, as of IE6 sp2, there is no security risk. By default it allowed signed activex controls, and prompts for others..you cant hack a control to appear signed, the signing certificate that MS grants is based on the code, a hash is created from the code of the activex and compared against the certificate, modifying the code AT ALL will fail the signature...and MS only grants the certificates to a few select controls that meet their standards and are proven safe..

You offer alot of mis-information and opinion as fact, you know that?

[plnelson]

And like i said in the other thread, your activex argument is trash...so no, "any sensible person" wouldnt have it turned off, as of IE6 sp2, there is no security risk. By default it allowed signed activex controls, and prompts for others

EXACTLY!

Most sites do not have signed controls so the user has two choices - -
Run with ActiveX totally turned off and browse in peace . . . or . . .
Run in "prompt" mode and constantly be getting pestered about whether you "trust" this or that site. The user has no way of knowing whether to trust it, so it's just another annoying pop-up. I run with a pop-up blocker so I don't get pop-ups from websites - I certainly don't want my browser issuing them!

Thing you don't get is that the web has grown up and is now a practical tool for getting things DONE - buying stuff, researching information, comparing products and prices, downloading content, etc. Anything that facilitates that is GOOD; anything that slows people down or gets in the way or requires extra reading and dismissingf popup-ups is BAD. I don't want to ever be prompted about whether I trust a site, because that's just a waste of my time - I have no logical basis to make that evaluation.

[rjm1982]

Yeah, I think ive been asked maybe ... let see...NEVER on a legit site about active-x controls...developers just dont make them.."shady" sites often try them to force malware etc. Again, there you go using the word MOST without any kind of fact behind it. Very few sites try to run custom activex controls. Flash is a signed control, any site that uses flash is using a SIGNED control and the end user wont be asked.


And My view of the web is far from skewed, yours however, is, and with that last paragraph you've proven it.

The web IS NOT an office space, it IS NOT a store, it IS NOT practical tool for getting things done. It CAN be used for these, but thats not its only purpose. Alot of people use the internet for ENTERTAINMENT...for fun, for something to do.

Im glad that you dont represent the whole of the internet population. You want a steril, boring face on the internet.

[blain]

The web IS an office space to some people, it IS a store to others, the web IS a practical tool for getting things done to a lot of people, and it is also a source of entertainment to others.
Nobody wants a boring, sterile internet, but it is a lot of things to a lot of people, what the majority of people want is usability, a good design should not impact on usability, it should embrace it.

[brandaggio]

When a paying client request an intro it is not easy to talk them out of it.

It could be designed well enough to enhance your message Flash or no Flash. Most are not.

Flash gets a bad rap. It is WYSIWYG, truly. It is cross platform, truly. It scales and offers relatively small file size in relation to its A/V richness.

HTML and CSS still can't do many things Flash can do with ease and vice versa.

It is very unfortunate that Flash sites seem to not really be indexed by Google unless they have HTML wrappers.

For this reason I think, business wise, Flash sites are "generally" (not always - there are exceptions) less efficacous than HTML sites (e.g. product is harder to find via search if at all), especially well done, HTML/CSS sites.

If Flash could be indexed like regular old HTML pages I would prefer it for most tasks. I have heard for some time Google is supposed to be able to index Flash but I have yet to see it in the wild.

Finally, unless all content is abstracted in XML (or some other way) in a Flash site, it is not that easy for a client (or anyone other than the site author) to edit and update content, so cost of ownership is generally higher with Flash over HTML.

Depending on the job at hand, Flash can be great and if ya gotta make an intro might as well make it nice and slick.

[obliquegeek]

plnelson - what have 'poylester leisure suits' got to do with anything? (and I like tail fins!). You're just arguing for the sake of it. Usability is not the bottom line if you're disregarding all the other factors. There is no single thing that is the 'bottom line' and I think that is a big problem in web development. The 'bottom line' is always going to be a combination of the most suitable technologies to get the job done effectively and enjoyably.

There's no one way of doing things. If I want to buy some paper, then no, I probably don't want flash dancing around in front of me. It's get in, buy the paper, get out, job done. But when I'm checking my friends travelling progress around the world or checking out the website of my favourite film or band, I like a bit of flash to make things more interesting.

It all boils down to the suitability of flash to enhance the web experience. I am still not a fan of intros that last more that 5 seconds or full flash sites but, I do believe that we need to embrace flash more. Stop being scared of it and learn how to implement it effectively. Unless we take it onboard, open our minds, and find the best way to use it we will be missing out in the long run. Things like putting much of the info to XML, and having flash load in small chuncks as and when needed is what I'm talking about. Effective implementation that enhances the web for designers, users and clients.

As an observation, when anyone comes to me with a 'really cool' or 'amazing' site they've seen, 8 times out of 10 there's some flash in there bringing the site alive.

[rjm1982]

Oblique...you said something about keeping track of your friends traveling progress, which site are you refering to? I ask because we recently set something like this up, and im wondering if it would be what you are refering to..