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  1. #26
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by CJ
    I'll visit the US, with certainty. But I can honestly say I know stuff about America, I talk with americans daily, I watch CNN sometimes, I visit american websites. Do you even know where Belgium is abouts? Do you know what language we speak here? ha!
    One point to make here....

    CNN most certainly does not represent the whole of American opinion.

    I am aware that Belgium is free....so is France and it's one of the world's most socialist country's...and our ally.

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  2. #27
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    cj,

    There isn't really much difference between people in California and New York, at least it wasn't until September 11th. New Yorkers were just closer to ground zero. Like you say, we are all just colorful. That's a wonderful way to look at things. I agree that all is not black and white.

    Personally, I am not fed up with society, yours, mine, or the worlds. Guess I am the ultimate optimist. I believe there is good in most people and at some point in time, good will overcome evil. (toh, look who's being idealistic now)

  3. #28
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    Cj,

    I believe you speak French, and other languages also but I'm not sure which ones. Why don't you tell those of us who havn't had the opportunity to visit about your country. I do want to know more about it.

  4. #29
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    I posted a thread about Belgium to give you guys more information about Belgium.


    http://sitepointforums.com/showthrea...threadid=32800

  5. #30
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    Originally posted by CJ
    And anothe rthing, wans't it Bill Clinton who brought you the huge economic advancements? And what is the economy doing now, with Bush as president? Economics is the BASIC of every world power. No economics, no power. Look at Russia....
    Nope, it wasn't Bill. Bill was in office at a very good time in history. Technology flourished. Stocks were jumping (too high).

    You want to accuse Bush of our current economy? Uh, ok, then why did it start to dwindle last year, before he was elected? Possibly the anticipation of Bush being elected? Right.

    The president has little effect on the economy. Although the economy has a great effect on the public perception of the president, which is why you think Clinton is responsible for the technology boom. If he's responsible for the boom, then he's surely responsible for the fall, right?
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  6. #31
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    Originally posted by CJ
    Ugh, somehow I knew you would rip my words apart. Anyway you people think you live in a free country. You like to think that.

    But you know what, I wouldn't want to get in to this further because you think I, as a Belgian, as a european citizen, do not know anything about America. For a fact I have seen 4 months of American history in school, like any other Belgium student has. I watch CNN regulary, just to see the american's point of view.
    It's nice to hear that you learn so much about my homeland in school, I wish I knew more about yours.

    But you know what, for an absolute complete fact, I have lived and breathed American culture and history for l8 years. Most of the other people on this forum have for many more years. Please, do not tell me that you, with 4 months education, know more about America than I. That's quite an insult.

    I don't recall anyone here saying you know nothing about America. I would have thought that you know quite a bit. After all, I did hear that your school system is better than ours.

    But you probably guess Belgium is some kind of dictator state. Well it's not, in fact Belgium is probably one of the most free countries there is, as a Belgian citizen. You can walk here in the big cities, overnight, on the streets, alone and you don't have to worry to be robbed or shot. Crime rates are the lowest in the world, and yet we are in the heart of Europe. But this is not about Belgium. You visit Belgium for 1 week, you'll see how great it is here, except for the weather.

    I'll visit the US, with certainty. But I can honestly say I know stuff about America, I talk with americans daily, I watch CNN sometimes, I visit american websites. Do you even know where Belgium is abouts? Do you know what language we speak here? ha!
    Great, I'm glad to see that you can walk around at night. So can I! Sure, there are areas of every city that nobody wants to walk in. That's what you'll find if you continue to look for what's "wrong" with America.

    On a side note, I believe Belgium is somewhere near Germany, but I wouldn't bet money on it. I'll be the first to admit that I know very little about Europe.
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  7. #32
    SitePoint Wizard Ian Glass's Avatar
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    Well, it's certinaly nice to see America getting back to normal... But, some things teed me off in this thread--namily factual inaccuricies--so I'll try and bring in some truth.

    First, I think it's imposible to tell what Gore would be doing now, but I don't think it would be much different than what Bush is doing now. In fact, I saw Albright the other day on the tube and she all but said that would be her recomendation. What else could you do?

    So, jigga, 'guss you don't like Clinton much... Don't worry, alot of people don't, but I think it unfounded. Clinton was a pritty good president--not the best, but certenly not the worst. Anyway, let me address some of the topics guy's have brought up:

    ∙ By '...just bombed them, hoped that everyone was killed...' I guess your refering to Kosovo. But, I'd like to tell you that Kosovo was a sucess -- thare's now new leader, and Melosivic (sp?) is in the Hauge. Unlike Desert Storm, he got the results we wanted, he accomplished his goals.

    ∙ Acctualy, many Democrats weren't born into wealth, but generaly Republicans were. And, as for, democrats being raised to take office, I'll have to talk to George Bush to see what he thinks... I think it's 50/50 on that one...I've never seen a politition who's parrents weren't involved in politics.

    ∙ I don't know about you, but I'd perfer to have a president that didn't use special ops, or any milatary force, just because thier 'pretty cool.'

    ∙ Gee, I've never heard anyone compare Democrats to virgans... over-sexed frat boys, yes, but never virgans.

    ∙ Clinton probliy was a draft dogger, but so was Bush, and Channy, and Ashcroft, and... This is the draft dodgeing administration. In fact, I think Powel's the only one who's seen active combat.

    ∙ Clinton wasn't the only politicion to ever screw a round. I personaly don't care who the president does.

    ∙ Democrats don't spend more money on polling, Republicans do. I remember reading that somewhere. Anyway, what's wrong with polling--don't you want a president who listens to the people?

    ∙ You're right, RKuhle, the good economy wasn't entirly Clinton's doing, though he had alot to do with it. The 'soft' economy isn't entirley Bush's fault, but he could have done better.

    BTW -- Al Gore never said he 'invented' the internet, he just said he was a 'father' of the internet, witch isn't entirly inaccurate, seeing as when a senator he did vote for it, if I'm not mistaken.

  8. #33
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    Originally posted by CJ
    I'm not saying I can't stand American society. There isn't even something as an American society, cuz I'm sure it's quite different in California than it's in New York.

    Society can also be viewed as something more broad. At the moment I'm fed up with society, in teh western world. But this doesn't mean I support terrorists. Yous ee, I'm not black and white. I think colourful.
    Actually there is an American society. The difference in California and New York is more of a "sub-society", if that.

    How on Earth can you be fed up with Western Society? You don't know it! CNN reports news, which is usually bad. So you see the "bad" things that go on here and you think you know us? Yet you proceed to state that we are black and white. Funny.
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  9. #34
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ian Glass
    ∙ Clinton probliy was a draft dogger, but so was Bush, and Channy, and Ashcroft, and... This is the draft dodgeing administration. In fact, I think Powel's the only one who's seen active combat.
    Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! LOL

    Do you even know what a draft dodger is, KID? The draft is NOT military service as you seem to think. The draft is something that has not been in existence since Vietnam...and I'm sure you don't remember that!

    It was a means by which high school grads could be called upon to enter the service and help America fight the war. If you were drafted you had no option about whether to serve. The only way to avoid the draft was be in college which is a legitimate excuse. Nobody is accused of dosging the draft by being in college.

    George W. Bush was never drafted. Neither was John Ashcroft. Neither was Dick Cheney. Note the spelling corrections.

    George W. Bush DID serve in the National Guard, but he was in college so he was never drafted. Cheney was, if I'm not mistaken, a military hero too. At any rate, he was the defense secretary during the elder Bush's administration and Gulf War and that makes him a military hero. You obviously don't know what a draft dodger is so why don't you not show your ignorance on the matter.

    Clinton NEVER even reported for service when he was drafted making him a draft dodger.

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  10. #35
    Non-Member jigga's Avatar
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    I have no problem with President Clinton, he was a great President, except for his stupid points... He did some of the dumbest things ever, that most Americans don't have a clue about. He lowered government spending substantially, closed military bases that were just built, and wrecked economies in states such as Montana, because of these closing. He stopped all pay increase for the military personnel, which essentially gave the military 8 years without any cost of living increases, which is really difficult if you are in the military... He also lowered the standards of the military and reduced the training budget.. I don't know if you read the paper much, but military effectiveness and readiness was at an all time low while Clinton was President, because he reduced the training budget so much, that military personnel were sitting at desks more than they were out in the field learning tactical stuff... Homeland Defense should come before anything else... especially if you are the last super power and you have other countries eyeing your goobledygooks.

    As for the people from the other countries or those that don't think the current system of voting is fair, well, what if you lived in Montana, Iowa, or any other state that doesn't get that many electoral votes... YOUR VOTE WOULDN"T COUNT! Basically New York, California, Texas, and Florida could just go to the polls and decide the President for the most part and guess what? They are all Democratic areas, besides Texas... Why? Because of the minorities... Democrats promise the minorities all sorts of stupid stuff... and they rarely ever deliver, the Republicans are realistic and don't promise things like that to the minorities and thus don't get their vote... Also, why in the world are we raising spending to help those that don't have jobs? If you don't have a job, it's your own fault for the most part... we should be spending money to help them find jobs, educated them, but not to allow them to live off of us... Personally, I don't give a damn if everyone that is poor dies... unless you are poor for a reason beyond your control. If you are poor because you got knocked up, your own fault, if you became poor because you didn't finish high school, go die in storm drain, I don't care... STOP TAKING MY HARD EARNED MONEY! I'm tired of hearing about how bad so and so is and all that... I think that anyone if they really wanted to, could make at least $30K a year, which is more than enough to live very good on. There are jobs out there, even with this crisis. Right now, I know the mall near me, is looking for over 500 individuals to work in the stores... 500??? But that area has a high unemployment rate??? It also has one of the highest workfare rates... why? Because people aren't trying to get jobs, because they are mooching off of my money... I hope we cut off funding one day and just let them die off... people would start looking for jobs really quick if they knew they could die if they don't...

    And as for those of you talking about how Bush brought down the economy? The economy is controlled by variables, in which the President has very little control. All that we have is monetary policy, which is the government's baility to control the economy through the spending of money on worthless projects... such as during the Great Depression, the government paid people to go around and paint fences, just so that there would be more money in the country, more people with jobs, and to spur the economy, and guess what, it worked! However, we aren't doing bad right now... There were way too many jobs out there before the economy went bad and there are still way too many, people just need to stop being so damn picky, because I can tell you this.. every McDonalds and Burger King that I've been in is busy as hell and they are looking for people like crazy... You need to swallow your pride sometimes and do what you need to do to survive. So, I guess I don't feel sorry for anyone that just got laid off... oh well, life goes on, pick yourself up, and move on, if you don't, you'll die, your family will starve, and I will still be able to sleep at night.

    As for walking around at night, I live in Detroit, one of the worst crime cities in the country and I feel totally comfortable walking around at night... all that you need to do is be smart about it. You don't walk around at night alone and you don't go into dark corners... you have to use common sense... It's not just america either, that applies everywhere..

    Also, isn't Belgium one of those countries with FREE medical coverage? That's the stupidest idea in the world... how often do most of us go to the hospital? I go there probably once every 3 years and that's to get booster shots and stuff like that, which are covered by my employer anyway... so I would be paying more of my paycheck to the government just so that I could pay for a bunch of sickly people to be cured... most of those sickly people will never be cured... and if I were them, I would consider Dr. Jack Kevorkian... in fact he's from Michigan, good guy, I think he's doing more for this world than anyone... I think that no one should have to suffer like that, and it's good to kill them off.. he should be the only one registered to do so though.. he's a good good caring man with some sick pleasures...

    And a war country? We aren't plagued with war... it's funny, because we are portrayed as a country at war, but if you walk around, we're just like we are any other day before the attack. We don't really give a damn about the war, doesn't scare us... we have an excellent military and we believe in our forces and their abilities... even with the huge cutbacks by Clinton... thank god Bush reversed them...

    And want to know else I hope dies? People that don't use their blinker when changing lanes... do you realize how easy it is to use a blinker? Those people are the people that deserve cancer, not the others that actually use their blinker, they should be saved... I think that medical treatments should be given on the basis of whether or not you piss me off while driving, but that's another story altogether...

    And yes, I'm arrogant, yes I'm uncaring, but I live in world of freeloaders and whiners... I will never ask for government assistance on anything... I'll take it if they give it to me, but I'll never go looking for it... I don't want to pay such high taxes, just so that a bunch of broke people that aren't ever going to attempt to make something of themselves can live... let them die... I'll manage the crew that picks their dead bodies up off of the streat.. I'll even light them on fire in the middle of the road if need be in order to conserve space in the landfills... If that's what it takes to get an extra 1% of my taxes reduced... I'm game!

  11. #36
    Non-Member jigga's Avatar
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    Oh and did I mention that the Democrats were the ones bribing the homeless with cigarettes trying to get them to vote for Gore? Oh, I guess that sort of slipped by. Did you guys also notice how the Democrats were trying to stop the military vote from counting in Florida??? That's just BS! How do you discount the military vote. The military is what has made this country free and will keep it free... it disturbs me to think that someone that believed that the military vote shouldn't count... could run our country... that just sickens me!

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    Non-Member jigga's Avatar
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    And at least Bush doesn't have a plastic head! None of you will ever be able to persuade me that Gore doesn't have a plastic body, his face looks totally unrealistic and plastic like... he looks very stupid! Bush looks like he is stupid, but he's an Ivy Leager, I believe, soo... that must mean something... You can add Tipper Gore to my list of people that should die... and Al Gore too... Send them to Afghanistan with Jesse Jackson, the racist! Jesse Jackson is the biggest racist this world has ever seen and if you want to know why, please visit the world's longest thread... which is quickly approaching the record, in the general forums.

  13. #38
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    damn, jigga...good call...lol

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  14. #39
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    Originally posted by RKuhle
    It's nice to hear that you learn so much about my homeland in school, I wish I knew more about yours.
    Just type "About Belgium" in Google and you'll learn more about Belgium. If you really would like to know more about iut you would have done it a long time ago.

    Originally posted by RKuhle
    Please, do not tell me that you, with 4 months education, know more about America than I. That's quite an insult..
    Could you please quote me on that? No you can't, cause I didn't say that. I said I know a bit about your country, at least I know more about it than you think I know. Secondly someone was implying I know nothing about the US. I'm a lazy you-know-what, I wouldn't post stuff for nothing.

    Originally posted by RKuhle
    How on Earth can you be fed up with Western Society? You don't know it!
    Oh come on! I live in Belgium. Belgium is in the heart of Europe, and if Belgium is not a western society I'm probably in the wrong country.

  15. #40
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    jigga,

    All I can say is I'm glad that most Americans are not like you.

    Your posts above are filled with inaccurate information, bias political rhetoric, and hate, and ignorance.

    I'm still shaking my head in amazement at your ridiculous comments.

  16. #41
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by allie
    jigga,

    All I can say is I'm glad that most Americans are not like you.

    Your posts above are filled with inaccurate information, bias political rhetoric, and hate, and ignorance.

    I'm still shaking my head in amazement at your ridiculous comments.
    why? because he was not politically correct? I think MOST of what he had to say in the way of facts (or percieved facts) is generally true. Of course he did lace it with his opinions, but that's okay. we all do. Kudos, jigga. I don't agree with everything, but I'm glad we live in a society that allows us to speak our mind.

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  17. #42
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    sketch,

    And I have the same right to express my opinion. I stand by my previous statement.

    Quote:

    " Personally, I don't give a damn if everyone that is poor dies... unless you are poor for a reason beyond your control. If you are poor because you got knocked up, your own fault, if you became poor because you didn't finish high school, go die in storm drain, I don't care..."

    How anyone could make a statement like this is beyond my comprehension.

  18. #43
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    you have that right, allie. But jigga is right about this. It's not that I don't care for those people, but I don't want my tax money going to fund someone because they make stupid decisions. If a woman is a slut and has 6 kids by multiple fathers, I don't want my tax dollars going to "help her out". I don't see tax money coming my way because I missed a car payment and I'm under the gun. Why should I reward someone who keeps making stupid decisions. Why do I need to fund a methadone program to give legal, but just as addicting drugs to heroin addicts? It doesn't make sense. there are good and legitimate government aid programs out there. But there is alot of junk that I don't want my tax money going to fund.

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  19. #44
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    Originally posted by allie
    jigga,

    All I can say is I'm glad that most Americans are not like you.

    Your posts above are filled with inaccurate
    information, bias political rhetoric, and hate, and ignorance.

    I'm still shaking my head in amazement at your ridiculous comments.
    Actually I wish more Americans were like him, not because of his opinions, but because of the fire in his gut. Most people will not say stuff like this specifically because it's "politically incorrect" or very controversial. Why are people so afraid of saying what they really think?

    Must be the whole peer pressure thing. "Oh my god, jigga doesn't agree with me! Bring out the shackles!"

    Although I don't agree with some of his positions, I do agree on many. I'm not sympathetic at all. Sorry, don't come to me with a sad face asking me for sympathy and money. Instead, come with a determined face with a solid reason that I should give my help.

    I have no problem helping people, in fact I love it. I don't like seeing people in unfortunate situations any more than the next guy, but nobody will receive pity from me. Notice how I said "help". Help is a very broad term, but it's far from "giving".
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    I don't want my tax dollars to be spent helping real "freeloaders" any more than the rest of you.

    But, to say you don't care if they die is inconceivable!

    Quoted examples:

    "if you became poor because you didn't finish high school, go die in storm drain"

    "let them die... I'll manage the crew that picks their dead bodies up off of the streat.."

    Where did you get your warped sense of "political incorrectness"?

  21. #46
    Digital Warrior Renegade's Avatar
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    First, Clinton ran to Canada after he was drafted. He hung out there, till the war was over.

    Secondly,

    Originally posted by RKuhle
    Why are people so afraid of saying what they really think?
    The reason more people like jigga don't exist, is because there are too many people like allie, always right there to label someone who speaks their mind as "inaccurate information, bias political rhetoric, and hate, and ignorance"

    . It seems that anything politically incorrect these days is racist, or infringing on someone elses "rights"

    I agree 90% with jigga, and I congratulate him on speaking his mind. Cheers!

    Clinton was not a great pres. If you believe that, its only because you are what I like to call, a "victem of the media" The media loved him because he was a great speaker, and talked big. But he did little for this country as he was always too busy with his affairs.

    Clinton shut down about a third of our military. Crippling economies in the regions the closed bases were located. For that, now, I will not forgive him. Because of Clinton, we are less prepared to fight this war on terrorism than we would have been even 10 years ago. shame on your Clinton

    He was also known as one of the highest taxing presidents we have had. Another awesome legacy to leave behind.

    CJ: Just because you watch CNN and talk to Americans, does not make you an expert on US election policy. To really get an understanding, why don't you read our Constitution/bill of rights.

    To really understand ANY country for that matter, you have to live there. Period. That goes for everyone.

    I am glad you, CJ, are proud of your homeland. And those things you mentioned are great. But your country is not perfect, neither is the US. You might be safer walking alone at night, but I bet you we have several things that you don't. And I am sure your country has made its share of mistakes.
    --There's my 1.5 cents, now where is my change!?!?

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    allie, allie, allie,

    I share your feelings every time I read pro-choice literature, and I wondered the same of you when you stated your position on another thread. These guys at least had the opportunity to live long enough to die in the storm drain.

    Note: I don't share the same beliefs as jigga in the whole "storm drain ideology".
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    Renegade,

    We will have to agree to disagree on Clinton. That's been debated to death already.

    Rkuhle,

    Glad at least someone here shares my disgust on the "storm drain ideology".

    I don't want to debate the pro choice issue. That has also been debated to death. I will however, tell you that personally, I would not abort an unwanted pregnancy. I would, however do so, under certain situations. To sum it up, I want to be the one making those choices. I don't want (nor do I trust) any group of politicians on Capital Hill making those choices for me.

  24. #49
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by allie
    I will however, tell you that personally, I would not abort an unwanted pregnancy. I
    I wouldn't either...but then again, I can't...I'm a man.

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  25. #50
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