Web Designer v.s. Web Programmer

[Galo]

Web Designer v.s. Web Programmer
Whats the difference between the two? I'm a web designer does that mean I need to know any mark-up languages? Should I know html, xhtml or java script?

How much should a web programmer be expected to design? Should he know how to manipulate photos in PhotoShop and be able to create an appealing layout that will direct the viewers eye through a page?

I understand that the more you know the better off you are, but how much really should one be expected to know?
I enjoy designing for the web and I do think a little on how my design will work. But I'm a designer I don't want to learn java script I want to focus on design, Am I wrong?

Incas you were wondering here are my credentials
http://www.itracedesigns.com/

In company perspective a Designer should know as much as posible about the Programmer, and visa versa is true as well, Designers that Program.

I know my pixels, vectors, 2d and 3d, cdd html xhtml javascript php and im working on .net right now, only cause i am one single person developing complete applications doing graphics design as wel as coorporate design and commercial customisation in terms of selling your stuff.

Saying that i dont think one shoul limit itself to "Designer" or "Programmer", in the fields of the web, both are required when working on your own.

A team of let's say 8 ppl, 2 designer, 2 developers, 1 programmer and one tester, one is not required to know everything and can therefore be told to "Focus" on it's speciality, where the programmer is programming way better that you could ever do on your own it's told to "Focus" on it's programming skills.

Often companies will have a static workflow in this matter, whereby every participant has it's own responsibilities.

[Devious]

Until there is a clear definition of both, no one knows. Sure, people can say what they think it means, but what authority do they have?

[markifornia]

My opinion out of observation in the real world:

Web designer:
He can design outstanding "wow" effect layouts. He can or cannot handcode HTML properly. He cares or don't care about standards. He slices or do not slice his layouts (as oppose to pure css layouts). He knows Flash, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, and whatnot graphic tools. He "cannot" do any server side scripting. He may know a little client side scripting like javascript.

Web programmer:
He is an expert in a server side language like PHP, ASP, etc. He may be an expert as well with a client side language like javascript. He knows some HTML but he "cannot" design wow effect layouts. He can do "skeleton/plain" layouts that a designer may later work on. He may care or not care about web standards.

Web developer:
He is a combination of a web designer and web programmer. He may not be a total expert in both fields but he knows a substantial amount of knowledge in each of them and he can "do" things on his own. Most importantly, he cares about standards, clean code, best practices, and latest trends in general web development.

I couldn't agree more. Excellent breakdown of differences. I would fall into the 'web programmer' category - php, mysql, javascript and standard compliant xhtml/css (i do care about web standards)

Although I do know web developers that are more like CMS experts. They rely heavily on CMS (content management systems) in creating sites such as joomla, drupal, and wordpress, third party apps, etc and bringing them together.

[besteast]

The designer= design website
The programmer = make programm in use of website

[autap6]

web programmer = everything that is code (html, css, javascript, php, etc)
web designer = general layout, graphics, colors, pictures, etc

web designer = architect
web programmer = builder

[rogerkk]

Web designer is only doing the UI works.. but the Website Programmer is implementing all the functionality..... in the cms sections very important part web design.. because all the site look feel based on that desinger only..

[FinanceMan]

i think all people can be a programmer but not everybody can be a webdesigner