SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 57
  1. #26
    Non-Member melancholic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    447
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi there,

    I kind of thought there were three roles. Back when I was studying, these were the three "text-book" definitions. (off the top of my head of course)

    Web Designer - Designs the front end, worries about things like layout of the site and general design considerations. etc.

    Web Producer - Takes the design created by the web designer and makes it web ready. Slices up the image provided and adds whatever is required to attain the interactivity goals specified by the client.

    Web Developer - Develops the back end, what people have started to call "web programmer". (which is kind of redundant and general at the same time, I feel, as Programming is programming, whther it be HTML, CSS, PHP whatever... You're programming in a language regardless of markup/syntax).

    TO conclude, I feel that the confusion and redefinition has been caused by freelancers who have been forced to become jacks of all trades. Therefore, web designers are now doing web production work as well as design. CSS is now deemed to be part of the web designer patheon/portfolio.

    The title "web producer" is now obscured into web design. So you have many web producers saying that they are web designers despite not knowing what a colour wheel is!

    To the point... I guess my advice for you is that you focus on one thing and focus on it well. In the end of it, you won't be able to (won't want to) do everything on your own. But it helps knowing about other related technologies and disciplines.

    HTH

    Regards,

  2. #27
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by 000justin000
    Web Designer v.s. Web Programmer
    Whats the difference between the two? I'm a web designer does that mean I need to know any mark-up languages? Should I know html, xhtml or java script?

    How much should a web programmer be expected to design? Should he know how to manipulate photos in PhotoShop and be able to create an appealing layout that will direct the viewers eye through a page?

    I understand that the more you know the better off you are, but how much really should one be expected to know?
    I enjoy designing for the web and I do think a little on how my design will work. But I'm a designer I don't want to learn java script I want to focus on design, Am I wrong?

    Incas you were wondering here are my credentials
    http://www.itracedesigns.com/
    This is a very interesting topic... I actually covered this in an article I wrote entitled Does using CSS have any affect on SEO?

    My points were...

    A web designer is someone who designs and does not code (think of an artist), therefore a web designer must use a graphics package (such as photoshop) to design their web site layout. These applications use (very bad) html table layouts to produce the pages. They would not use CSS as this is "programming". Yes, thats right CSS is NOT designing.

    A web developer is someone who minipulates the web design to give the website its functionality. Once they have a design from the web designer, they would begin optimising the code and perhaps only then would they begin to use CSS.

    Search Engine Optimisation is NOT web design, its mainly about marketing but usually requires some web development.
    Wouldn't you agree that this is the case?

  3. #28
    Non-Member Musicbox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    india
    Posts
    1,331
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    all the answers are same to the question which is asked by the user.

  4. #29
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    145
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I too find this an interesting thread.

    It discusses something that I believe anyone hiring folks like us should know and understand.

    I discussed my views on the titles held by web professionals in my own article: http://www.yourmessageconsultant.com.../web-pros.html

    Although I did not say as much in my own article, I do believe that the better web designers understand how sites are put together from a point of view of what designs would take longer to code and develop. They know if they design a certain way that it may require a specialist such as a flash programmer, a database programmer, or someone highly skilled in the scripting languages to make their design happen.

    One point I mentioned that no one else has, is that I believe the web developer/programmer should also function as project manager for a website. They are the ones who usually do the hiring/subcontracting of all the other specialties. They are the ones who will typically deal directly with the client. And utimately, they are the ones the client will complain to if something goes wrong.
    Your Message...My Words...Combined Success
    Use my words to convey your marketing message
    Help For Web Beginners Tutorials for true web newbies.

    First Arts & Crafts directory to feature websites & crafty tips.

  5. #30
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Lithuania, Europe
    Posts
    295
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Web Designer:
    Can create graphic website design and is often (but not always) able to produce (X)HTML + CSS.

    Web Programmer/Developer:
    Can program both server-side (PHP/ASP.NET/Java/whatever) and client-side (Javascript) website/webapp logic and is always able to produce (X)HTML + CSS from given graphic layout.
    Last edited by ReeD; May 1, 2006 at 06:07.

  6. #31
    SitePoint Member Glasso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Of all these definitions Kabatak's fits best with my understanding, however coming from a largely technical background, and having a significant lack of creative juices running through my veins, outsourcing in this area is my only option.

    Having all other things squared away, does outsourcing my creativity exclude me from the Web Developers club?

  7. #32
    Galactic Overlord gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    HAWK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    12,313
    Mentioned
    878 Post(s)
    Tagged
    13 Thread(s)
    Yeah - I'm pretty much with Kabatak on this one, although s/he is a little harsh on designers.

    Yeah Glasso - I think outsourcing your creativity probably does exclude you from the developers club...

  8. #33
    SitePoint Zealot Wynnefield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    139
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What's in a name?

    I found my original post ...

    actually, i had been calling myself a web developer for several years until last year when i landed a terrific gig with a global firm, who provides worldwide contracts in about a dozen or more areas of expertise. i was hired to redesign and remarket the internet presence, develop an intranet and perform any other web-related tasks and internet-related strategies to support a new company branding campaign. i consider myself rather well-rounded in web design tools and techniques such as dreamweaver, flash, css, jscript, and seo strategies.

    i was brought into the IT department, and after being on board for several months, i discovered i had been more of a what i would describe as a web "author" or "designer" than developer. we are a fully integrated Micrsoft .NET/SQL Server based shop, developing fully interactive web-based applications for external clients, as well as for our employee base of over 13,000 members across the globe.

    i have spent the last number of months absorbed with a "learning bug" i have not had for many years and enjoying it tremendously. studying and coding .net and sql server have provided me a complete new arsenal of tools for developing more indepth, completely interactive sites and/or browser-based applications.

    whatever name i give myself (or the company provides) is not nearly as relevant as what i am now able to provide after such a brief period of learning and the internal satisfaction it provides.

    whatever you decide to call yourself, i just hope you are having as much fun as i am doing it ...
    Sincerely,

    wynne the web guy
    Last edited by Wynnefield; May 2, 2006 at 16:35.

  9. #34
    SitePoint Guru brent5392's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    636
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by kabatak
    My opinion out of observation in the real world:

    Web designer:
    He can design outstanding "wow" effect layouts. He can or cannot handcode HTML properly. He cares or don't care about standards. He slices or do not slice his layouts (as oppose to pure css layouts). He knows Flash, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, and whatnot graphic tools. He "cannot" do any server side scripting. He may know a little client side scripting like javascript.

    Web programmer:
    He is an expert in a server side language like PHP, ASP, etc. He may be an expert as well with a client side language like javascript. He knows some HTML but he "cannot" design wow effect layouts. He can do "skeleton/plain" layouts that a designer may later work on. He may care or not care about web standards.

    Web developer:
    He is a combination of a web designer and web programmer. He may not be a total expert in both fields but he knows a substantial amount of knowledge in each of them and he can "do" things on his own. Most importantly, he cares about standards, clean code, best practices, and latest trends in general web development.

    I completely agree, this was my opinion on the subject as well. I originally started in Web design, then moved into Web programming, now im in the middle, so I would be a Web developer now, *sigh* so many changes...
    PHP | MySQL | (X)HTML | CSS

  10. #35
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    10
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    well i did a web development degree and it covered the following,
    font-end : xhtml,css,javascript,photoshop,flash,swish
    back-end : asp,asp.net,vb.net,php,java,jsp,c#,advance action scripting
    databases: oracle,mysql and posgrel
    others : xml,xslt,xpath,uml

    i don't call muself a web designer but instead i call myself a developer.....

  11. #36
    Web development Company chrisranjana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    chennai , tamil nadu , India
    Posts
    706
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    There are many grey areas here

    A web designer even though he/she is handling the front end needs to do some *development* if you may call that so, when he/she needs to program using actionscripting in flash.

    Also some web developers and programmers are very adept in CSS and HTML even though they cannot create stunning graphics
    Chris, Programmer/Developer, Chrisranjana.com
    Chennai, Tamil Nadu, India.
    Php Developers

  12. #37
    SitePoint Addict Ramiro S's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    321
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Smile

    Great Topic. I agree with the definitions in general but I also think on the grey areas.

    Not all the web programmers know how to program in different languages. And I don't think this is a limitation.

    For web development I trully think that a good programmer needs to have design (css specially) and SEO knowledge and the same for the designer (Some SEO and programming).

    Right now I think the definition is not a good reference point for hiring someone. The knoledge and background is where people need to put the eye on.
    Quasar - Web Development - Free Avatars

  13. #38
    Non-Member daedalux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    153
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dotancohen
    And that's why the designer need to know the limitations of CSS and XHTML. Just like a bridge designer needs to know the limitations or steel and cement so that he won't design something that can't be built.
    Well said.

  14. #39
    Non-Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    337
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    sounds like the same to me.

  15. #40
    SitePoint Member stchatterbox's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm on my way to become a web designer, maybe taking up some freelance projects in near future. I think what I need to learn more at this time is CSS and Photoshop/Illustrator. Then probably some AJAX and Flash for the second step to make my sites more functional and interactive.

    A programmer is different in some ways. Let's take my example, I design blogs and have chosen the blog engine Wordpress as my framework, so I don't really need to program; my main task is to let it display beautifully. But of course, some PHP knowledge will help to make the display more appealing or "user-friendly".

    Thus the Wordpress team or those PHP gurus are the ones who do the programming; eg, updating the security of the engine, SEO, etc......
    One touch of nature makes the whole world Kin
    Visit my blog and Discover more!

  16. #41
    SitePoint Zealot japonica's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    108
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm a buyer (of the service) and also an employer. I agree with other people saying web designers and programmers should know a little about each other's profession or what they actually do.

    In today's business, most of the sites are database driven. So web designers are asked to learn more about back-end programming knowledge and templating system structures than before. For example, to design WordPress theme, a web designer should know a little about php codes used.

  17. #42
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dotancohen
    A swirling text news ticker would be tough!

    And that's why the designer need to know the limitations of CSS and XHTML. Just like a bridge designer needs to know the limitations or steel and cement so that he won't design something that can't be built.
    Not with FLASH. lol

  18. #43
    SitePoint Member stchatterbox's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    japonica, it is true that one needs to know some PHP codes to do the template. For example, styling how a post should display, the sidebars etc......and modifying a plugin or some additional features.
    One touch of nature makes the whole world Kin
    Visit my blog and Discover more!

  19. #44
    Non-Member lostseed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Zurconion Soon!
    Posts
    1,549
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by kabatak
    My opinion out of observation in the real world:

    Web developer:
    He is a combination of a web designer and web programmer. He may not be a total expert in both fields but he knows a substantial amount of knowledge in each of them and he can "do" things on his own. Most importantly, he cares about standards, clean code, best practices, and latest trends in general web development.
    Ah you took what I was just gonna say, I shouldnt read posts so I sound like I have my own voice haha.

  20. #45
    Non-Member lostseed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Zurconion Soon!
    Posts
    1,549
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by melancholic
    Hi there,

    Web Producer - Takes the design created by the web designer and makes it web ready. Slices up the image provided and adds whatever is required to attain the interactivity goals specified by the client.
    This sounds like an unnecessary tag for someone. There must be more to it, because when you say Web Producer it sounds like a big deal, when in reality they just get the slice tool and hangout with imageready with premade graphics taking no part in the code or design

    If it is a title I would rename it to Graphic Slicer!

  21. #46
    Non-Member melancholic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    447
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by lostseed
    This sounds like an unnecessary tag for someone. There must be more to it, because when you say Web Producer it sounds like a big deal, when in reality they just get the slice tool and hangout with imageready with premade graphics taking no part in the code or design

    If it is a title I would rename it to Graphic Slicer!
    "Graphic Slicer" sounds silly. There's more to web production than that... which IS a big deal as there's the HTML, javascript, css etc that is "required to attain the interactivity goals specified by the client" guess I was just being lazy when I generalised.

    I said "web producer" because it actually is/was a job title.

    HTML code generated by imageready/fireworks is a little shifty and shouldn't be used off the bat - or off the slice if you will.

    Web Production consists of optimising the image that is provided by the web designer for web browsers and writing HTML code, CSS and javascript. A load that has been dumped on the web designer and/or the web developer making this position more and more phased out and unheard of or regarded as being "graphic slicer".


    regards,

  22. #47
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    18
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In the web business, they're not looking for a web designer or programmer or developer or producer. They're looking for people with a certain skills set. It's about your knowledge and the way you put that knowledge into practice. You often don't see an ad up with: "looking for a web developer". You'll see an ad up with: "looking for someone who knows this and that, and this". If you do see an ad up with web developer needed, the firm will always post up the necessary skills set. Each firm has it's own view on web development, just like you guys, so they're always specific.

    However if you are looking for a name to represent yourself/work, my tip is to simply call yourself a web specialist, post up your skills set, and get done with it.

  23. #48
    SitePoint Member m1k333's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    23
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    wi prefer web programmers :d

  24. #49
    Carpe Diem = Fish of the Day fisherboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    488
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    When dealing with smaller companies I always end up writing, or at least rewriting their copy as well as doing all the designing, HTML/CSS, optimising etc.

    How to represent this to a potential customer?

    IMO Web Developer covers most of the bases. A Web Programmer to me is someone who writes PHP/ASP, sets up the database etc in other words uses programming languages as opposed to straight mark-up stuff.

    The Web Designer dolls up pretty graphics, the attractive layout.

    In between and covering the other roles is the Web Developer. More correctly it should be Web Site Developer as the other sounds like Tim Berners-Lee!

    My $0.02 (about $0.012 in US currency)
    fisherboy
    Web Site Design

  25. #50
    You Bet Your Life...Really lerxtjr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    599
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ACK! This is driving me crazy! Where the heck is the marketing person in all of this? A designer that doesn't know marketing is worthless. Most designers don't even know that a web site visitor looks at the top right of a page first, then the middle, then the left. Most design as if for magazines and newspapers as if the visitor looks at the top left reading to the bottom right and stats show that's just plain wrong on-line.

    Good designers make a pretty looking web site that doesn't earn its keep. Great designers study on-line marketing and hit it out of the park for their clients.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •