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  1. #1
    We like music. weirdbeardmt's Avatar
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    Please take your time with this one.

    Hey,

    I have been using stylesheets for a long time now and I am familiar with most of the techniques but it was only after viewing pages at for e.g www.glish.com have I started to think about simply using CSS for all the page design (i.e. scrapping tables).

    However, I have since seen pages that use both tables and CSS for formatting.

    My question then, refers to the integration of DIVs (with positioning elements) and tables. In a site I am developing (www.thornworx.com) I am using tables for the layout, but then div layers to show and hide information. However, I am having position problems that relate to the size of the browser window.

    I have read many tutorials on the web about this, but all have come up short. I would therefore be very grateful if someone could perhaps view the site and source, and tell me where I am going in terms of positioning the elements and what I need to do in order to fix this, and also increase my understanding of these newish (to me) concepts.

    Thanks.
    I swear to drunk I'm not God.
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  2. #2
    Xbox why have you forsaken me? moospot's Avatar
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    I'm rather new to DIVs and Layers myself, but I believe what you need is relative positioning on your elements. They need to be placed in a position relative to the menu, no matter what size the browser window is.

    Scratch that....

    I just put your code into dreamweaver and played with it a little bit and found that it is your tables that are moving and not the layers. I think you need to nest your DIVS in a table or go all the way with the layers.

  3. #3
    We like music. weirdbeardmt's Avatar
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    Originally posted by moospot

    I just put your code into dreamweaver and played with it a little bit and found that it is your tables that are moving and not the layers. I think you need to nest your DIVS in a table or go all the way with the layers.
    I knew that -- I am using absolute positioing for the layers. So I need to know how I go about nesting the table within a <div> or how I position the table absolutely and make the layers relative etc. Like you, I'm new at this, and I am also new to DW (I was recently converted from trusty ol' notepad!).
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  4. #4
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    Do you feel you need the table?

    Take a look at this http://www.sturgood.com/mywork/ajj.htm

    No tables, but basically the same effect (show/hide info) that you seem to be looking for with your home page. (Not as pretty as yours for sure, but it is still a work in progress)

    The divs need to be relative in order to scale with browser window. Resize your browser window with this page and you will see it scales. Also notice that font size is changeable without messing up layout.

    This page uses relative divs for positioning, and classes for styling. It also uses percentages to help with the scaling. And this is where some of the problems come in, in that every browser figures the percentages different. Opera being the most noticably different.

    I haven't tried it, but think I could reproduce your home page without tables. The method Glish uses does not support NS 4+. (In fact they are rather rude to netscape 4 users) There are problems with all solutions. I havent found a perfect one yet, and have been playing with table-less layouts for the last year or so.

  5. #5
    .net install meltdown
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    Wbmt,

    I spent a little time trying to position the layers/divs relatively without much success using both <div> & <span>. Because of the multiple layers following each other in the document structure, using relative positioning displays the layers one after the other either as a block using <div> or inline using <span>.

    I'm not too savvy w/ javascript, but if you can change the show/hide script to trigger only one <div> for the mouseover description and one for the descriptive text (<td class="standard">) then you should be able to position the divs using relative positioning.

    Hope that makes some sense?

  6. #6
    Happy Holidays !! Paul S's Avatar
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    Hi guys, I've worked with absolute positioning layer without problems (in both browsers: NN & IE).

  7. #7
    We like music. weirdbeardmt's Avatar
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    Originally posted by isotope235
    Wbmt,

    I spent a little time trying to position the layers/divs relatively without much success using both <div> & <span>. Because of the multiple layers following each other in the document structure, using relative positioning displays the layers one after the other either as a block using <div> or inline using <span>.

    I'm not too savvy w/ javascript, but if you can change the show/hide script to trigger only one <div> for the mouseover description and one for the descriptive text (<td class="standard">) then you should be able to position the divs using relative positioning.

    Hope that makes some sense?
    thanks -- yeh that makes sense. i'm not too bothered about the mouseover <div> could remove it. i'll have another play around.
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  8. #8
    Xbox why have you forsaken me? moospot's Avatar
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    Weirdbeard,

    Have you tried using dreamwearvers "Convert Tables to Layers" function?

  9. #9
    We like music. weirdbeardmt's Avatar
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    Originally posted by moospot
    Weirdbeard,

    Have you tried using dreamwearvers "Convert Tables to Layers" function?
    no. good idea!
    I swear to drunk I'm not God.
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  10. #10
    ALT.NET - because we need it silver trophybronze trophy dhtmlgod's Avatar
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    When I used to do some design (yes, at one point I had to) I never really used tables at all, and I got away with it ok. You just have to be careful with NN.

    But I would suggest you don't use WYSIWYG programs, the CSS/HTML they generate is terrible!!

  11. #11
    We like music. weirdbeardmt's Avatar
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    Originally posted by dhtmlgod
    When I used to do some design (yes, at one point I had to) I never really used tables at all, and I got away with it ok. You just have to be careful with NN.

    But I would suggest you don't use WYSIWYG programs, the CSS/HTML they generate is terrible!!
    when was the last time you used DW? I used to have the same opinion as you, because I started out with FP and it was really awful. I have been coding in Notepad for about 4 years now, but my mate showed me DW, and it is awesome. The code is valid, and there is no extra unnecessary rubbish.

    I recommend you have a look at it.
    I swear to drunk I'm not God.
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    Hint: Don't buy a stupid dwarf Clicky

  12. #12
    ALT.NET - because we need it silver trophybronze trophy dhtmlgod's Avatar
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    Have you seen the ASP and Javascript is produces?!

    Granted, I haven't used it since 3, but I have seen 4's ASP and it's a nightmare.

  13. #13
    We like music. weirdbeardmt's Avatar
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    Originally posted by dhtmlgod
    Have you seen the ASP and Javascript is produces?!

    Granted, I haven't used it since 3, but I have seen 4's ASP and it's a nightmare.
    NO NO NO! the asp code is terrible as is the CF and it will display but not interpret my PHP files but the HTML code is spot on and will create the most efficient JS rollovers.

    I use it for creating the HTML template, then Notepad to convert it to PHP. A bit half-cocked but it works for me!
    I swear to drunk I'm not God.
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  14. #14
    ALT.NET - because we need it silver trophybronze trophy dhtmlgod's Avatar
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    Matt, you should give HomeSite a try, its great

    It does have a little visual editor with it.



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