Is php staying

**hisham777** · Mar 27, 2006, 21:40

hi everybody

last night i was chatting with a friend, he is a programmer, working
in a mobile solution company.
we were talking about php and other stuff.
he mentioned that there is a risk that PHP will not stay for long ! ?

any comment from the developer in the industry.

**coffee_ninja** · Mar 27, 2006, 22:15

It's just this humble developer's opinion, but I think that risk exists, to a certain extend, with any language. Languages come and go; that's the nature of the career and the challenge it will forever present us. Generally, that's what I think.

Specifically though, I think PHP has been picked on since Ruby on Rails appeared, a couple of highly successful web applications were developed with it, and it became the darling of the blogging developement masses.

I suppose RoR is "the next big thing," but not really. Ruby isn't all that impressive without Rails, and Rails is nothing that couldn't be pulled off in PHP. In fact Zend, PHP's corporate parent, is putting together a framework for PHP right now called the Zend Framework. I've been using it in production at http://www.sudokumadness.com/ since the preview release was available about a month ago. I've gotta say, I love it. I'm sure it won't be long until someone write a code generator for ZFW that builds "scaffolding" for you, just like RoR.

Anyway, I think I got a bit off the point. I don't think PHP is going anywhere. Given some of the changes made to the language, the new framework, etc., I do think its going in a new direction. I think PHP the tinker-toy is disappearing. I think PHP the enterprise-ready powerhouse is finally showing its face.

**Hazardous** · Mar 27, 2006, 22:33

I hope it stays round, it keeps me sane

**Kailash Badu** · Mar 28, 2006, 00:03

Yes, definitely PHP is going to stay. I wonder that makes people doubt the continuity of PHP. PHP developer and implementation base is growing and is larger than any other server side scripting language. Yes ASP.NET and JSP will dominate in certain types of implementation. But PHP will also continue to rule certain domains.

ASP.NET and JSP are suitable for enterprise class intranet applications. While PHP is appropriate for small to midsize internet web applications. Developing in PHP is very agile while developing in ASP.NET is more difficult. Difficulty becomes immense in JSP. JSP is more powerful but it is also complex.

Or is anyone worried about chances of ORACLE buying Zend?

**RetroNetro** · Mar 28, 2006, 01:00

I am no PHP programmer, but I too voted YES it will stick around, why would it not?

**Jelena** · Mar 28, 2006, 02:08

I don't see a single reason why whouldn't it stay around?

**spikeZ** · Mar 28, 2006, 02:57

yes, IMO it will be around for a long time yet. The developments in 5 into the OO world have set a strong foundation for further development....
sheesh what a waffle!

Spike

**Tijmen** · Mar 28, 2006, 03:20

yes, can't see why i would disappear in te future.

**Shrike** · Mar 28, 2006, 03:22

I think the biggest reason is Zend itself. If they continue to push PHP into the enterprise arena they will eventually alienate the people who made it so popular in the first place: the hobbyist users. As my work involves PHP I would probably continue using it regardless but Zend could quite quickly find themselves knocked off their high perch.

However the Zend Framework is a good indication that Zend are continuing with the theme of ease of use, rather than power through complexity.

**auricle** · Mar 28, 2006, 03:28

I don't get the impression that either Zend or the many volunteer developers who work on the language are trying to discourage spaghetti code. Rather, they're trying to encourage OOP. The die-hard proceduralists will continue to do their thing and the newbies will continue to adopt procedural programming because it seems easier.

**Atharvashirsha** · Mar 28, 2006, 07:38

I may code PHP a few years down the line or I may not but what about improvements in applications that we make today?

Languages come and go as some one rightly said. How often do we see applications recoded just to change the language being used?

**The New Guy** · Mar 28, 2006, 07:44

Languages don't disappear. They may fall in and out of favour but there is not language graveyard.

**coffee_ninja** · Mar 28, 2006, 08:13

Originally Posted by The New Guy

Languages don't disappear. They may fall in and out of favour but there is not language graveyard.

That's unfortunate

I'd like to send some legacy MS Access and VB 6 stuff there...

**Gator99** · Mar 28, 2006, 08:41

Even if php doesn't "go enterprise", which it already has, what's going to replace it. I don't think everyone is going to jump on the ruby on rails bandwagon just to put a simple contact form on their web site.

**Kurbin** · Mar 28, 2006, 08:57

Assuming Zend doesn't make too many serious missteps, I see PHP maintaining its leadership. Especially if their framework is implemented well.

**HarryF** · Mar 28, 2006, 09:06

Think the real "risk" to PHP is that the platform becomes irrelevant, not challenges from other languages.

last night i was chatting with a friend, he is a programmer, working
in a mobile solution company.

The magic words there are "mobile solution company".

So long as the internet is primarily text based, PHP has a place. Once video over the net goes mainstream and mobile becomes the primary client, the "text based internet" is less interesting.

And re: Rails - the problem there is it's a great solution with nowhere to run. There's an interesting read here - most people focus on the 50,000 lines to 5,000 lines part. Personally I just read that as a scaling nightmare, that the PHP codebase didn't have. FastCGI is the primarly place to run rails but it's old and buggy code - see here and here - on the "stability curve", I'd guess Rails (and other frameworks requiring FastCGI) is around the same mark as PHP 3.x, when you consider the role FastCGI has to play.

**Dark Tranquility** · Mar 28, 2006, 09:32

Originally Posted by HarryF

Think the real "risk" to PHP is that the platform becomes irrelevant, not challenges from other languages.

The magic words there are "mobile solution company".

So long as the internet is primarily text based, PHP has a place. Once video over the net goes mainstream and mobile becomes the primary client, the "text based internet" is less interesting.

And re: Rails - the problem there is it's a great solution with nowhere to run. There's an interesting read here - most people focus on the 50,000 lines to 5,000 lines part. Personally I just read that as a scaling nightmare, that the PHP codebase didn't have. FastCGI is the primarly place to run rails but it's old and buggy code - see here and here - on the "stability curve", I'd guess Rails (and other frameworks requiring FastCGI) is around the same mark as PHP 3.x, when you consider the role FastCGI has to play.

thanks for the links Harry

Off Topic:

BTW, I am missing your posts and blog... missing the time you were a mentor here !

I voted yes ! I think that PHP will stay around within the next decade, afterwards I don't really know ! As Harry said, mobile market is becoming more and more important and this really threatens PHP and all the other text-based programming languages !

BTW this thread deserves to be highlighted

**Mau** · Mar 28, 2006, 11:09

Personally, Rails has not caught my eye. For some reason it just doesn't seem like a real competition to PHP. I have taken a brief look at it, but I decided that it just wasn't for me.

PHP will stay around forever. The only difference is if people are using it or not.

**Dark Tranquility** · Mar 28, 2006, 11:41

Originally Posted by Mau

PHP will stay around forever. The only difference is if people are using it or not.

nothing lasts forever ! we're speaking about the next years !
moreover if people stoip using a thing it will slowly vanish !
look at Perl for instance, compare the importance of Perl 10years ago and now!
someday PHP, that was kind of replacement for Perl ( remember People Hate Perl

), will be replaced ! the net is changing fast and is more and more Media based...

**HarryF** · Mar 28, 2006, 11:47

look at Perl for instance, compare the importance of Perl 10years ago and now!

Except Perl is not dead but rather it works fine and with CPAN, there really isn't a great deal more Perl needs doing to it. PHP is headed the same direction - people already do take it for granted - why rave about something that you take for granted?

BTW, I am missing your posts and blog... missing the time you were a mentor here !

Don't get the time these days unfortunately

**Dark Tranquility** · Mar 28, 2006, 12:16

Originally Posted by HarryF

Except Perl is not dead but rather it works fine and with CPAN, there really isn't a great deal more Perl needs doing to it. PHP is headed the same direction - people already do take it for granted - why rave about something that you take for granted?

Yes, that's right !

Originally Posted by HarryF

Don't get the time these days unfortunately

I know you are very busy, good luck in what you're doing!

**skeeterbug** · Mar 28, 2006, 16:19

Originally Posted by Dark Tranquility

thanks for the links Harry

Off Topic:

BTW, I am missing your posts and blog... missing the time you were a mentor here !

I voted yes ! I think that PHP will stay around within the next decade, afterwards I don't really know ! As Harry said, mobile market is becoming more and more important and this really threatens PHP and all the other text-based programming languages !

BTW this thread deserves to be highlighted

the text based internet isn't going anywhere. video is different than text. tv or movies didn't put books out of business. or newspapers.

the mobile *revolution* has some nugget of truth, but it is 90% hype.

**Selkirk** · Mar 28, 2006, 23:01

The question contains a bit of a bias. Perhaps in ten years, PHP will be more popular? However, in ten years, PHP will absolutely, most certainly be around.

Check out clipper, a dBase clone created in 1985. The company that created it last released a version in 1994, I think. Yet, today, it lives on with open source implementations and legacy applications. It was no where near as popular as PHP. PHP is here to stay for a very long time.

PHP's fortunes are tied to Apache and HTTP. Conceive a scenario where those go out of style and that would be bad news for PHP.