flash-html=bad design?

**coiL** · Oct 2, 2001, 07:43

I was just wondering what everyone's views are on sites that have flash introductions with no html link for skipping or viewing a html only site. Is this generally considered bad designing?

**Atrus** · Oct 2, 2001, 07:52

Hi!

Yes, very bad, indeed. What does this cost you? A small link saying "skip intro"! This way you only make it possible for people without the plugin (working on some unix, ie) to come in at all.

Atrus.

**cpeat** · Oct 2, 2001, 08:08

I think this is very bad as people would get board of the intro every tiem you went to that site. They would also stop going there because of the intro.

I say down with no html or flash link to the site if some one does this they dont know whtat they are doing

- Chris

**ollspin** · Oct 2, 2001, 08:11

i know i always look for the skip button when i see the start of an intro cos i just wanna get to the content . . . is it really worth having an intro if most people (i assume) skip it?

**psalzer** · Oct 2, 2001, 08:20

I still think flash intros will disappear. Of course, I thought they'd be gone by now, so I'm not exactly batting 1000% on this issue, but as far as I can see the only purpose they serve is to keep people from the content of a site and discourage people from returning. I don't even like to have to choose skip intro because even that takes a while to come up a lot of the time, especially on a dial-up, but sometimes even with broadband it's longer than I'm willing to wait. Flash has its purposes, no doubt, but I hope the intro doesn't continue to be one of them for long. But if you're going to have one, certainly have a skip intro option, and make sure it's available to a visitor quickly.

**Jeremy W.** · Oct 2, 2001, 08:27

I think the issue here really is: If it doesn't have a purpose, or you can't justify the use of an element, get rid of it.

Therefore, if a splash page has no purpose or it is interrupting the "quest for information" or if it's a flash intro it's just the same to me.

So, if you had a flash intro which actually had a purpose and was useful, and that users could say "don't show me this ever again" it might be worth considering, otherwise say "bye bye".

**coiL** · Oct 2, 2001, 08:51

Sort of on the same topic.. Is it true that a flash intro page can stop search engine bots from being able to index your page? Does anybody know?

Oh and I definetly think that flash sites should have a skip button, most of the intro's look the same to me anyway.

**paroxysm** · Oct 2, 2001, 12:23

I won't say it's bad.
It's unethical.

**Atrus** · Oct 3, 2001, 05:38

coiL, yes, if there's no link in the old sense, search engines won't be able to follow you any further. Some even stop at image maps or don't fetch the frames.
Additionally all of them can't follow JS redirections, javascript: -type hyperlinks, flash content, etc

Google, btw, is supposed to be the only search engine as of now, that follows links which contain a ?. So backwards compatibility is not only an issue of courtesy to people using text based browsers (not only command line tools but also think of screen readers that can't read from graphics files and also braille readers that need text to start from).

This must have been discussed a lot of times. I'm sorry for elaborating that much (again?) ...

Regards,

Atrus.

**creole** · Oct 3, 2001, 06:32

Originally posted by paroxysm
I won't say it's bad.
It's unethical.

Not putting a "Skip" button on a Flash intro is "unethical"? That might be going a bit far don't you think? Bad decision maybe, unethical? No.

http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/di...term=unethical

**Sarah** · Oct 3, 2001, 07:39

I can remember looking up a site which I had been told was really good and that my client wanted something similiar and all I got was a grey screen... nothing else - basically it was a flash intro which I couldn't see (flash turned off as it drives me nuts) but then I couldn't get into the site to see anything else either because there was no link... I mean how bad is that. I certainly didn't ever go back and I almost wanted to email and say crazy to do that but couldn't do that either (probably a wise idea - sorry babbling now)

But its a bit like everything else browsers etc if you have no problem with a (large ish?) % of your users not being able to view it then go ahead - personally use the script which shows either the flash intro or a gif (if flash is turned off) posted on a another thread..... will look for it if you need it.

just my 5 p worth

Sarah

**humanz** · Oct 3, 2001, 15:31

Flash entros with no skip link at the top of the page = bad design.
I have only seen a few that were worth waiting for and a few that were short and sweet enough that they were ok.

I wish i could just get into the site..if the site impressed me enough i would gladly go to a link to view what ever flash the site wanted to show me..but first let me in.

humanz

**paroxysm** · Oct 6, 2001, 11:56

'Unethical' means alot of things to me.
It usually means unfair. Oh well it was meant to be a joke in the first place.

**guysmy** · Oct 7, 2001, 22:27

Consider intergrating the Flash and html...even if it's an intro.

Put a small Flash box in your layout...like a little TV screen.

Scrap the Flash unless it's necessary to communicate something to your target audience. If it's just eye candy...you're slow down people's navigation...

You're visitor will leave

**redemption** · Oct 8, 2001, 02:44

if you want a flash intro well it's gotta be really fast-loading and really cool otherwise you'd lose visitors... i know i'd be...

**cyberprince** · Oct 8, 2001, 08:07

A link to skip the into is very important.

The Flash Page as it is, could already turn a lot of people off. Having to have people wait longer to get to your content could probably lead to them leaving without even getting there.

Also not everyone has Flash Plug-ins installed.

Be careful.

**appetent** · Oct 22, 2001, 07:56

Flash intros have limted value these days. Generally, it's not big and not clever anymore (and perhaps never was!). Of course, if it is a blinder (e.g. the fabulous www.ultrashock.com intros, past and present), they can entertain and build up to the main site. However, even the best intro should be 'skipable' if the user desires.

The other consideration is the use of a graphical preloader to ensure required parts of the site are available before use and to let the user know what is going on.

**sbdi** · Nov 10, 2001, 19:24

I'm pretty sure when I speak for most 56k'ers when I say I dont like to sit around waiting for some nice 5mb flash movie to load without being given the option to skip it

**Ian Glass** · Nov 10, 2001, 19:34

I'm sure you're all familiar with the now infamous article on Useit.com: http://useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html

WWJD: What Would Jakob Do?

**Sarah** · Nov 12, 2001, 03:56

wow - I pretty much agree with that article... although you still have to know how to use it as clients still think that it looks good...

**geiger** · Nov 16, 2001, 22:12

okay. figure this. there's a nice little road everyone's been riding down for the past 50 years or so. now the wonderful government decided to make a 'scenic' ride around the forest. it's longer. but it looks better.

what the question here is- should the government leave both roads as they are, letting the citizen choose? or take away the faster road simply because it's not quite as scenic?

**OneChance** · Nov 17, 2001, 07:46

Originally posted by Sarah
wow - I pretty much agree with that article... although you still have to know how to use it as clients still think that it looks good...

I find all intros, Flash or not, to be incredibly bad design. If a client insists that I make one for their site, and they still want one after I've told them how terribly bad it is to have one, I find a new client. Hmmm, now I see why I'm broke.

**nagrom** · Nov 17, 2001, 08:22

I hate Flash intros. Most flash intros are like Ford commercials, which works ok on TV, because the audience is paralyzed anyway.
So, if you must have one, let the folks skip it. If you have a client that must have one, charge them for it by the second.

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