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  1. #1
    SitePoint Addict rosem's Avatar
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    should I refund or not?

    Alright, so on Feb 02 I was contacted via aim by someone who wanted a logo design done. He went over the details of the site, and said he couldn't send paypal - so he would be sending an MO to pay for it. I told him I wasn't going to start working on the logo until I got the MO and he was ok with that.

    I get the money order on Feb 05 and on Feb 07 I sent him the logo I made for him to these examples:

    "http://www.domainhabit.com (This one I like alot actually)"
    "http://www.domainnametalk.com"
    "http://www.dbforums.com/"

    Baiclly a nicely styled all text logo for a forum he was making.

    So I send him my sample and the converstation goes like this:

    http://www.rosem.com/work/random/htmltalk.jpg
    [16:47] *****: Oh man, that looks nice.
    [16:47] *****: Let me ask you
    [16:47] *****: It can be resized without losing quality right?
    [16:47] rosemFSU: yup, 100% vector
    [16:48] rosemFSU: done in illustrator
    [16:48] *****: Very nice, so is it complete?
    [16:48] rosemFSU: yes, if you like it
    [16:49] rosemFSU: lol
    [16:49] *****: Yeah I like it, can those colors be a little darker?
    [16:49] *****: They are kind of light, it'll look too template-ish

    [17:00] *****: Yeah, colors darker, so it doesn't look as template-ish, that's basically my biggest concern.
    [17:00] rosemFSU: ok

    I tell him I would work on the color and send him a new update.

    So I then update it to this:
    http://www.rosem.com/work/random/htmltalk2.jpg

    We then have another conversation:

    [17:04] *****: Is there anyway you can make it silver? Kind of like that old GE logo?
    [17:04] rosemFSU: example?
    [17:04] *****: http://www.domainhabit.com/
    [17:05] *****: http://www.vbulletinskinz.com/previews/db.jpg
    [17:05] rosemFSU: yeah, I'll try it out
    [17:05] *****: Thnx man
    [17:05] rosemFSU: np

    Alright, so 2 days later we have this conversation:

    [18:27] *****: Did you redo logo yet? Honestly? Because I sold htmltalk.com domain lol.
    [18:28] *****: Well, "pending sale"
    [18:28] *****: He has to pay first.
    [18:28] rosemFSu: yeah
    [18:28] *****: Let me see
    [18:28] rosemFSU: www.rosem.com/work/random/htmltalk3.jpg
    [18:29] *****: Not bad. So....what do I do now?
    [18:31] rosemFSU: I dunno
    [18:31] rosemFSU: I can't keep chaning things for you
    [18:31] rosemFSU: lol
    [18:31] rosemFSU: how much are you getting for the domain?
    [18:31] *****: $500
    [18:31] *****: So I decided to let it go.
    [18:31] rosemFSU: ask for $550
    [18:31] rosemFSU: lol
    [18:31] rosemFSU: and tell him it comes with a logo now
    [18:31] *****: Hmm
    [18:32] *****: He ain't gonna take it, he went from $250 to $500, and he complained about the $250 price tag being too high, it took him 3 weeks.
    [18:32] *****: To be convinced to pay $500
    [18:32] rosemFSU: ah
    [18:32] *****: But I'll slip it in there, see what he says.
    [18:33] rosemFSU: ok

    So then today he comes online and says:

    [17:08] *****: Hey
    [17:09] rosemFSU: hey
    [17:10] *****: The guy that bought the domain, htmltalk.com, he says he wants to design his own logo.
    [17:10] *****: So...
    [17:10] *****: Ya....
    [17:10] *****: :'(
    [17:11] rosemFSU: hmm
    [17:11] *****: hmm
    [17:12] *****: It will be nice for your portfolio!
    [17:15] rosemFSU: haha
    [17:16] *****: So uhhh.....is there anyway I can get a refund? lol

    After teling him that I don't think I should refund him - the conversation gets longer and longer, especially after he comes up with many excuses as to why I would refund him. I kept telling him that I did the work, and he liked it - and it's not my fault that he sold the site.

    What do you guys think, is not refunding him the right thing to do? Or is keeping his money for the work I've done wrong?

    I always try to keep everyone happy, and I usually always refund a client if they are not happy or I am taking to long - but this made me mad as I did all the work and he was happy with it, until he didn't have a use for the logo anymore.

    Anyway, I wanna hear what other people have to say on this.

    Thanks,
    Mike

  2. #2
    SitePoint Zealot ngi112's Avatar
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    How much did he pay for the logo? If it's something silly like 20 bucks, then simply refund him and move on bro.
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  3. #3
    SitePoint Addict rosem's Avatar
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    $50 - and it's not the money, just the principle behind it. I can't be working for free.

  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard Lil_Red's Avatar
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    What does your contract say about refunds?

  5. #5
    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
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    I wouldn't give a refund. You did the work he asked of you and he went and sold the site which isn't your problem. Maybe a partial refund is in order since the job was technically not completed but for the amount specified I wouldn't bother.

    And if the this isn't isn't specified in your contract you should consider doing so in the future.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosem
    After teling him that I don't think I should refund him - the conversation gets longer and longer, especially after he comes up with many excuses as to why I would refund him. I kept telling him that I did the work, and he liked it - and it's not my fault that he sold the site.

    What do you guys think, is not refunding him the right thing to do? Or is keeping his money for the work I've done wrong?
    You can't go back and get the time you spent on it back, and I think it's rude of him to even ask for a refund in this situation. Good work in getting the money up front, becuase someone who believes he deserves his money back after you provided the product wouldn't have paid you at the end.

  7. #7
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    Why on earth would you even consider refunding him? You did the work, you get paid. Simple!

  8. #8
    SitePoint Addict smittenbite's Avatar
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    you dont need to give him a refund. he probably knew he didnt deserve it from the very beginning anyways cause of the way he said it "uhhhh......" and then he ended it with 'lol'.
    nothing.

  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
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    It sounds like he consumed a lot of your time knowing he was going to sell the domain anyways. He contracted you to create a logo for him in bad faith so I'd say he doesn't deserve a refund. As lazy_yogi says, you can't get that time back.
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  10. #10
    SitePoint Addict shaxs's Avatar
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    Yeah I agree, dont offer this idiot a refund

  11. #11
    SitePoint Evangelist bronze trophy Derek Sheppard's Avatar
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    I agree also - no refund. This is why you get money up front.

  12. #12
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Call me cynical, but the first thing that would occur to me in this case would be that he is lying, has not in fact sold the template and is trying to take advantage of you by getting a refund and then later using the logo which he hasn't ended up paying for.

    So no, don't refund him.

    Sam
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  13. #13
    Word Painter silver trophy Shyflower's Avatar
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    I wouldn't refund him. Sounds to me like he used up over the price of the logo in just wasting your time.
    Linda Jenkinson
    "Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean." ~Unknown

  14. #14
    SitePoint Addict jtresidder's Avatar
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    Not only would I not refund this guy, but I wouldn't work with him again (or at the very least, quote 3 or 4 times the amount you think the job is worth). This confrontation might be minor, but the next one may not be and you know for a fact that his version of 'reasonable' is different to yours. It's just not worth the risk, IMHO.

  15. #15
    SitePoint Zealot willoworks's Avatar
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    I would send him the logo in an email and thank him for the business - you've already been paid and you are delivering what he ordered.

  16. #16
    + platinum's Avatar
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    you have done the work, no need to refund him.

    If someone payed you to build a house, and you did so, they can't turn around and say "oh I've sold the block of land, can I get a refund on the house?". Bad luck buddy!


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