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  1. #76
    SitePoint Enthusiast artycreations's Avatar
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    That's really funny. I doubt if anyone can say that outsourcing to any particular country is going to be valuable or wasteful. It comes down to a matter of Quality Vs. Price. You get what you pay for.

    U know, I liked what I read on this forum sometime back---
    I love giving clients the "Pick 2" philosophy.

    Quality
    Quick
    Cheap

    "Pick 2".

    Quality and Quick? Well it won't be cheap. (easily $1000's of dollars)
    Quality and Cheap? Well it won't be quick. (easily 6 month minimum time frame)
    Quick and Cheap? Well it won't be quality. (easily 2 minutes of my time)
    And I think it applies everywhere. Though one can be lucky with outsourcing too, but the cheaper you want it the bigger the risk is that you will not get the same quality work/experience, be it any country.

    A decision has to b based on research, investigation and quality, not just savings. In your case, you may have done your best to find quality but ended up hiring incompetent people. But it's more about making wrong choices than anything else. Thus generalizations like these made in public forums-
    Quote Originally Posted by wwb_99
    a bunch of underpaid automatons churning out third-rate code at third-world prices.
    could be well avoided. It really has nothing to do with any country per se.

  2. #77
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy
    wwb_99's Avatar
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    That is not a generalization, but rather a statement from experience. Just about every piece of software we have outsourced to one of the cheap places has needed major help in terms of architecture. After a few go rounds I realized that while they could write code that compiles and generally satisfies the requirements, there was no impetus to write great code that is maintainable nor expandable beyond the speficiations.

    Maybe there are exceptions, but I have not seen one yet. As soon as a vendor says "we have coders on India/Pakistan/China/Burma" I show them the door.

  3. #78
    SitePoint Enthusiast artycreations's Avatar
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    wwb_99, I wouldnt argue over your bad experiences with cheap labor. All I wonder is, how is it different from the problems discussed all over the forum between clients & designers/developers?

    With "generalisation" I mean, associating a few countries with "crappy work at cut-rate prices". I think it is a universal problem of clients landing up with cheap/inexperienced/incompetent labor. Just like we, as designer/developers, have issues with the clients.

    And there is absolutely no guarantee that you are full-proof against the risk of being burnt by US/European coders offering low prices!

  4. #79
    Life is short. Be happy today! silver trophybronze trophy Sagewing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwb_99
    That is not a generalization, but rather a statement from experience. Just about every piece of software we have outsourced to one of the cheap places has needed major help in terms of architecture. After a few go rounds I realized that while they could write code that compiles and generally satisfies the requirements, there was no impetus to write great code that is maintainable nor expandable beyond the speficiations.

    Maybe there are exceptions, but I have not seen one yet. As soon as a vendor says "we have coders on India/Pakistan/China/Burma" I show them the door.
    There's also the matter of approach. Indians have a development style which can deliver excellent quality but they have their own way of working. E. Europeans have yet another style. Offshore absolutely can produce great work.
    The fewer our wants, the nearer we resemble the gods. ó Socrates

    SAGEWING LLC - QUALITY WEB AND MOBILE APPS. PREMIUM OUTSOURCING SERVICES.
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  5. #80
    SitePoint Evangelist dev_cw's Avatar
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    What makes you most frustrated?
    What makes me most frustrated is dealing with clients in general. We spend many hours preparing very detailed proposals and exchanging many emails with the clients to iron out any misconceptions. However we still run into the problems listed bellow;
    1) I get very agro with clients that say they read the proposal and understood the specifics and subsequently approve the layouts and demos. Then they want to change something major after delivery and don't undersand why you have to charge them.
    2) Clients who disapear or clients that take forever to deliver the content. I have added a clause to our proposals stating that if the client is over 3 months late with content then we can cancell the project and not refund any cash, and even charge a restarting fee if they want to start up again. Obviously I use judgement when enforcing this but I have had to draw back on this 2 times since adding this clause. Be prepared to offer discouts if you are late as well, this has to go both ways.
    3) Clients who contract you based on your talents and then act as if they are the experts and steer the project in the wrong directions. Amazingly this happens more with low paying jobs. I belive that the client will respect the higher costing firm than the cheap one, so when the price is low they want to control but if the price is high then they will expect you to run the show.
    4) Clients who want cheezy websites...We are a design oriented firm and most of what we charge for is graphic layout. So we get very frustrated having to do ugly low quality sites...this should be easy money but we strugle more to make cheezy sites than to make high end ones.
    5) Clients who expect you to do free maintenance and updates for their site for ever. I don't mind helping clients out, and have spent hundreds of non-billed hours doing things for or teaching things to clients. In most cases if I say I am going to charge then they dissapear and just leave the site as is. Very few will offer to pay without my asking...but it does happen, and sometimes they offer to pay more than I would have billed. But in most cases they want it for free.

    Another thing that bothers me beside clients is contractors;
    6) Contractors who dissapear and don't reply promptly to emails etc...
    7) Contractors who don't take deadlines seriously...sometimes I feel that I am the only one in the world who cares about meeting deadlines.

  6. #81
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    Pushed by people who know nothing about web design is really a headache.
    Usually, I can do nothing but find more friends to help me work it out.
    ScriptMenu.com

    database of scriptmenu.com is For Sale
    29,000 script records - $499

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevonWright
    I've dealt with this at least 3 times in the past 6 months.

    The designer at our company has been doing absoluetly AMAZING work for website layouts....and then the clients say "Nah...I like *THIS* better" (Where *this* is them sending us a file of some crap they tossed together). If I wanted to live in a world of 1995 website layouts....I'd build a time machine and go back there.....

    What bugs me is people who take forever to sign a contract.
    It would be sad if it wasnt so true.

    A recent client wanted me to replicate this site for them

    http://www.billarnold.com.au/

  8. #83
    SitePoint Member amitcshah's Avatar
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    I can't make it in the time that is given.
    I 'will take my own time, with the way i m doing. otherwise underpressure.....
    forget it


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