SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 51
  1. #26
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    in transition
    Posts
    21,235
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Egor
    Nobody goes to them for content either. People go there for a service, which, for the most part, is brought to them through design.
    ESPN and CNN too? People definitely go there for content.

  2. #27
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    7,305
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vgarcia
    ESPN and CNN too? People definitely go there for content.
    I can't disagree with you there, but again, they could just as easily be classified as a service too. A service that provides up-to-date reports on sport and general happenings. The message, in this case being delivered as text could be terribly designed. Would you go to a site which uses a Times New Roman at 9px (non-resizable, like a graphic) for that content, or a site providing well-formatted, resizable text, given the option?

  3. #28
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Unfortunatly, most people I know go for design.

    I aim for simple and easy to navigate, with lots of good useable content.

  4. #29
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    16,875
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    You have complete control of the content of your site.

    Your visitors can override anything relating to the appearance of your site to make your site look the way that they want it to look.

    Concentrate on the things you control.
    Stephen J Chapman

    javascriptexample.net, Book Reviews, follow me on Twitter
    HTML Help, CSS Help, JavaScript Help, PHP/mySQL Help, blog
    <input name="html5" type="text" required pattern="^$">

  5. #30
    SitePoint Zealot ShytKicka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    120
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vgarcia
    Nobody goes to Amazon, Ebay, Craigslist, ESPN, or CNN for the design. Think about that.
    Well first of all, all of those with the exception of craigslist, have a tremendously amazing design. And for some reason, I visit all of those except craigslist. Maybe it is the fact that craigslist unattractive appearance stops me from visiting their website, because sometimes without the design, you can't find your way around the website.

    I would say both matter 50% - 50%.

  6. #31
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Posts
    682
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Studies show, people rate pretty sites as being more usable.

  7. #32
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    3,438
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Egor
    Nobody goes to them for content either. People go there for a service, which, for the most part, is brought to them through design.
    What? If you don't go to CNN for news content, what else is there? If you don't go to Amazon for a list of books to buy, what else is there?

    Your previous comment about content being a step by step manual. I also said that I agree design helps with viewability and organization. It's an aid but never a need.

  8. #33
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    3,438
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ShytKicka
    Well first of all, all of those with the exception of craigslist, have a tremendously amazing design. And for some reason, I visit all of those except craigslist. Maybe it is the fact that craigslist unattractive appearance stops me from visiting their website, because sometimes without the design, you can't find your way around the website.

    I would say both matter 50% - 50%.
    What would you go to Craiglist for? Now compare that for why you would go to CNN, Amazon, ESPN. Now consider why you don't go to cragslist. Perhaps because craigslist has nothing for you while the others do.

  9. #34
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    3,438
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Plebius
    Studies show, people rate pretty sites as being more usable.
    I could create a very pretty, usable site listing the ingredients of Oreos but I think its hit rate would be lower than craigslist which isn't pretty.

  10. #35
    SitePoint Zealot ShytKicka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    120
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes, but, if you adveritse a good looking site to 200K people and a bad looking site to 200K people, you'll have more returning users to the good looking one.

    Come on, let's be realistic here a little. If you don't care about looks then why don't you not put any styles together on your site. Just make your site a bunch of .txt files. I hate it when people come here and say the look means nothing yet they go out 3 days later to looking for a professional designer for their new website.

  11. #36
    SitePoint Evangelist
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    537
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I agree that content is important, but perhaps not as important as us developers would like to think.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4616700.stm
    "Internet users make up their minds about the quality of a website in the blink of an eye, a study shows.
    Researchers found that the brain makes decisions in just a 20th of a second of viewing a webpage."

    You can't digest any content in this period - all you are absorbing is visual cues.

    Also the poster that said "good looking lets your visitors come back to your website, content makes your website famous." If we take fame as being 'discussed heavily' (e.g milliondollarhomepage.com) but not being an established part of the internet fabric (e.g ebay, google etc) - I would dispute this as the inverse - fame can be a fickle and short lived entity, often undeserved, usually brought by hype. Your mates might send you a link 'look at this cool site' and it might be an interesting concept, amazing design but rarely because it's a worthy textual read. This is easily proven by discussing what sites are famous on the web currently and why they are so.

    Ultimately this is a tricky argument to have, purely down to the fact that an individuals skill base will determine which side he will defend. Standards zealots and back end coders will reject design as important (because they have feeble or no skills here), flash whizzes and photoshop artists will defend visual presentation as important while ignoring semantics (they often aren't interested or lack the knowledge)

  12. #37
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    26
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi all,

    I should have read this thread before I posted mine mins ago. I was asking a similar question on this..

    I strongly agree content and design should go hand in hand and I always take that into consideration when I work on my projects.

    However, I have dilemma when I'm designing my own. I have a tendancy to flaunt my design and creativity when I work on my own website. I am thinking since I'm a designer and I provide design services.. I need to show off as much skills and creativity I can with my own website. I guess when the visitors viewed my website, it would be really fllattery when they are immediately WOW by the design factors. My website consists of only a "profile", "portfolio", "contact us" and "solutions" link. It is not informative at all and it is flash based which means it doesn't have a good ranking as well.

    Now, I'm contemplating to adopt a more "informative" website approach. Meaning.. to do it a non flash or maybe a hybrid, make it as 100% idiot proof as possible, SEO but less of the WOW factor.

    What do you think?

  13. #38
    The MacGyver of Design bronze trophy Johan Dahlström's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Posts
    516
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by orangecabbage
    Now, I'm contemplating to adopt a more "informative" website approach. Meaning.. to do it a non flash or maybe a hybrid, make it as 100% idiot proof as possible, SEO but less of the WOW factor.

    What do you think?
    I think you're on to something good and worth striving for. Do it non-flash with CSS and proper HTML, and use Flash for special effects to add some extra spark to your site. Design your site so that it might appear visuall appealing to a broad audience, and with that I mean don't make it dull and don't pump it full with graphics. Then, top it off with some quality content to further "sell" your services and you have a recipe for success .
    http://www.johandahlstrom.se
    Not rebootin' on November 1st! (but shortly after)
    flickr



  14. #39
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    7,305
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by orangecabbage
    Hi all,

    I should have read this thread before I posted mine mins ago. I was asking a similar question on this..

    I strongly agree content and design should go hand in hand and I always take that into consideration when I work on my projects.

    However, I have dilemma when I'm designing my own. I have a tendancy to flaunt my design and creativity when I work on my own website. I am thinking since I'm a designer and I provide design services.. I need to show off as much skills and creativity I can with my own website. I guess when the visitors viewed my website, it would be really fllattery when they are immediately WOW by the design factors. My website consists of only a "profile", "portfolio", "contact us" and "solutions" link. It is not informative at all and it is flash based which means it doesn't have a good ranking as well.

    Now, I'm contemplating to adopt a more "informative" website approach. Meaning.. to do it a non flash or maybe a hybrid, make it as 100% idiot proof as possible, SEO but less of the WOW factor.

    What do you think?
    I think the major deciding factor here is your target market.

    What type of services do you offer? What kind of clients are you working with right now? What kind of clients do you want to work with? Do your clients come for a pretty picture to hang on their wall, or a solution?

    Define your market and cater for them.

  15. #40
    Web developer chrisranjana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    chennai , tamil nadu , India
    Posts
    710
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Unless visitors to your website are specifically looking for good looking websites to give awards , usability and content are the usual guiding factors.
    Chris, Programmer/Developer,
    Laravel Php Developers, Ruby on Rails programmers,
    Moodle, Opencart, Magento, Geodesic Classifieds/Auctions,
    www.chrisranjana.com

  16. #41
    SitePoint Addict WillisTi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Bristol, ENG
    Posts
    338
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    "Users visit your website for its content. Everything else is just the backdrop."
    Jakob Nielsen

  17. #42
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Site must be looks great, must be usable and user-friendly.
    Example, sorry content in Russian.

  18. #43
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    26
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi all,

    [ I've posted this under "Business and legal issues" before I chanced upon this thread. After reading this thread, I think it is more appropriate to post it here to hear your advice and suggestions on this dilemma ]

    ----------------------------------------------
    My current website is flash based and I have 80% of the visitors bookmarking it as their favourites and received lots of compliments that "hey! Your website is cool and creative and you have great design skill!" I've checked the stats that most of them stay more than 1 hour to surf my portfolio. The visitors are impressed BUT I'm not getting as much sales as the compliments I received.

    I figure out it could due to the following..

    1. As it is flash based, it is not having a good ranking on the search engines. 95% of the visitors are from others design related websites that I actively involved in and from the design directories that I posted. So I reckon, my visitors are people from my own industry and not prospects that will give me the business. Unless is some design companies that want to outsource their services BUT because of my website profile, I market myself as a business entity and not an independent freelancer. The likelihood of them engaging me on a freelance basis just by visiting my website is almost zero.

    2. Probably due to not expanding a wide contact to reach more prospects(I just started out on leveling myself from a contracted freelancer with a design firm to an independent self-employed), I've yet to reach the right market who will pay for my work. The prospects I contacted with are from cold calling lists and emailing lists and I realised they are those who don't see the importance of "branding and image" and thus are unwilling to pay reasonable fees. They belong to those who will go for any Aunty Mary's son's voluntary services. When they see my work, the first impression they have is "it is going to be very expensive!" before the enquire further and for those who did, they are actually put off by the pricing even though I did charged reasonably for a professional piece of work.

    3. The few clients that I managed to arrange an appointment with through cold calling and when I directed them to my website on the spot, they are lost and don't know where to click, I am embarrased and frustrated by their "stupidity". These few clients are clients who use their computers primarily for emails and don't actually spend time surfing nets and my website that showcase great creativity failed to impress them. lol

    4. My website is like most design studios websites which comprises only a "portfolio", "profile", "solutions", "contact us". It may lacks sufficient information to give the visitors more boosted credibility of engaging me for the work.

    Now.. I need to make a decision.. to rework my website to make it 100% idiot proof or to find the right market that will appreciate good design and creativity.

    As I'm a one man show, I'm thinking of setting every information on my website with step by step guide which is able to close a deal virtually. Includes something like "how we work", "FAQ", blog... more information that will convince the visitors and whoever emailed me from my website for an appointment, I'll have boosted confidence that the prospects have accepted the terms, know who they dealing with, what they need to prepare and what they want and what they will be expecting from my services.. and it can be considered the appointments will be almost 70% successful.

    What's holding me back from going forward to this approach is the "designer" calling in me. I do feel flattery when I received emails telling me my website looks fabulous and creative and I do want to work with clients who appreciate my design and creativity.

    I'm unsure if differentiating the website approach is going to kill or make your business or it all boils down to your sales skill for our field. Does the client ever bother to check out your website or they only care if you can actually do or "sound" you can do the work? Am I thinking too much for a start?

    I know as you move along, you are more likely to get referrals and your website doesn't matter that much. But what is the best approach for a newbie who doesn't have a decent client base to start with?

    I'm sure the veterans who have weathered the storms and ride through the waves will know if this approach works or fails. Looking forward to hearing from your advice and suggestions to help a newbie.

    Thanks!

  19. #44
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    26
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Egor
    I think the major deciding factor here is your target market.

    What type of services do you offer? What kind of clients are you working with right now? What kind of clients do you want to work with? Do your clients come for a pretty picture to hang on their wall, or a solution?

    Define your market and cater for them.

    I worked with as a contracted freelancer with an advertising agency and have just started to market myself as a business entity. A newbie in self-employing stepping feet to acquire business skills. I do not have a targeted market in mind. As a newbie, I am hoping to get any kinds of clients as long as there are clients.

    What type of services do you offer?
    I offered design services from print to web and e-commerce and CMS development as well.

    What kind of clients do you want to work with?
    I do want to work with clients who value "branding" instead of clients who are looking only for the cheapest. I'll get blood boiled when I meet those clients who don't see a difference between a professional work and work from his neighbour's 9 year old son.

    Do your clients come for a pretty picture to hang on their wall, or a solution?
    I do believe I can balance both aspects. However, for my own website, I don't know if it is too much or redundant to provide more information for my prospects other than a showcase of portfolio.

  20. #45
    SitePoint Wizard
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,191
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by F4nat1c
    Is it more important for a website to be good looking, or is the content of a website the fundamental aspect of it?

    Share your thoughts.
    hands down USABILITY. easy to use content with good looks as a bonus imho

  21. #46
    gingham dress, army boots... silver trophy redux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Salford / Manchester / UK
    Posts
    4,838
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by WillisTi
    "Users visit your website for its content. Everything else is just the backdrop."
    Jakob Nielsen
    yeah, and it shows on j's site...

    that's a rubbish simplification. design/layout can make or break whether a visitor can actually make use of your content. otherwise nielsen's statement, taken to the extreme, would indicate that a site where content is all sent as one long continuous unstyled piece of text is just as good/useful/etc as one where the content is presented in an easy to read format...
    re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
    [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
    WaSP Accessibility Task Force Member
    splintered.co.uk | photographia.co.uk | redux.deviantart.com

  22. #47
    SitePoint Addict CrabbyX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    249
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Design is undoubtedly nothing without usability (or content, whatever). One could say 'usability is nothing without design' but design, even basic design can still allow the user to prosper in a site's usability. On the subject of non-technological demographics, I don't think I've ever known anyone to be bothered by a site's design - whereas I've heard people moan about things not working, or more positively, people telling each other about useful sites.

    Anyway, IMO, usability is the more important. That's why vinnie's so popular
    michael.Crabbe

  23. #48
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    7,305
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CrabbyX
    Design is undoubtedly nothing without usability (or content, whatever). One could say 'usability is nothing without design' but design, even basic design can still allow the user to prosper in a site's usability. On the subject of non-technological demographics, I don't think I've ever known anyone to be bothered by a site's design - whereas I've heard people moan about things not working, or more positively, people telling each other about useful sites.

    Anyway, IMO, usability is the more important. That's why vinnie's so popular
    More important that what? Design? "Usability" is a separate layer on top of interface/product design and/or the intended message (content, or whatever), which, while related (or, better said, should be) to the two, can't be directly used as a comparison. "Usability" is not content, nor design; it's a measurement/description of how easy (or not so easy) something is to use.

  24. #49
    SitePoint Enthusiast angelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    97
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I wont apparently say anything new on this subject I just join to those people who think it's content that matters first and foremost. As a site owner you pursue the purpose to convey to the visitors what you placed on your site 'cause in the end it is what you did the site for. However a poor site's design with a great and unique content may play a wrong trick for the site's owner as the visitors who found the site for the first time may initially be turned off by its bad 'look-ability".
    www.oxyshare.com
    FREE file hosting service.
    Your data route

  25. #50
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    IMHO: It's all depends on web-site purposes. For design studio site more important to be good looking. For any big company's corporate web-page - the content. : )


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •