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  1. #26
    SitePoint Member mortgages12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stymiee
    If a processor holds funds in your account you can bet it's for a good reason
    That's the sad part. They don't even know the reason why I was frozen, I didn't even have any money in my account. I'm not high volume, actually there was no recent activity for 3+ weeks. I've been a customer for 5+ years, not many transactions over $100.

    This is a company that does this regularly to many people. I didn't care before but now that it has happened to me I have nothing but contempt and disgust for Paypal.

  2. #27
    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mortgages12
    That's the sad part. They don't even know the reason why I was frozen, I didn't even have any money in my account.
    Somebody knew. They don't just hold money on a whim. In fact, they can't. They have to have a darn good reason or else they will find themselves in a world of trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by mortgages12
    I'm not high volume, actually there was no recent activity for 3+ weeks.
    The less you process the more likely a processor will hold your funds. Why? Because when you process large volumes the processor knows they can seize funds whenever they need to because it is always coming in. They can't do that with low volume merchants because they don't know when the next sale will occur if ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by mortgages12
    I've been a customer for 5+ years, not many transactions over $100.
    The length of time you've been a merchant rarely, if ever, a factor. There's no such thing as loyalty with credit card processing. The stakes are too high.

    Quote Originally Posted by mortgages12
    This is a company that does this regularly to many people. I didn't care before but now that it has happened to me I have nothing but contempt and disgust for Paypal.
    How do you know they do it regularly? How many Paypal accounts do you have? How many transaction go through without a hitch vs how many are held for investigation? I bet you don't know. The amount of transaction that go through Paypal without issue dwarfs the number that Paypal has to investigate. Unfortuantely people complain long before they compliment.

    And guess what? Every processor holds funds regularly. Every single one. Every day every processor holds funds from some of their merchants. The security and fraud departments are the fastest growing department at every processing bank. Every single one. Internet sales make up a small percentage of all sales. Yet they acount for 75% off all fraud.

    Once again, the risk assumed by the processors with each transaction is tremendous. Being outside of the industry most people don't have a clue to just how much risk there is in processing credit cards. When a merchant screws someone, it's usually the processor who pays for it.

  3. #28
    SitePoint Member mortgages12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stymiee
    Somebody knew. They don't just hold money on a whim. In fact, they can't. They have to have a darn good reason or else they will find themselves in a world of trouble.
    Really? It's too bad no one @ Paypal can give me a reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by stymiee
    How do you know they do it regularly?
    Oh, just a hunch: http://paypalsucks.com/forums/

    Quote Originally Posted by stymiee
    Unfortuantely people complain long before they compliment.
    Not the case here. I've had nothing but praise for Paypal for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by stymiee
    And guess what? Every processor holds funds regularly. Every single one.
    No funds were involved here, my account was empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by stymiee
    Being outside of the industry most people don't have a clue to just how much risk there is in processing credit cards.
    With you being on the inside of the industry it's understandable that you would defend them. If it happened to you I'm sure you would be singing a different tune though, put yourself in the consumer's shoes for a minute here.

    Now that you have chatted with someone who has had their Paypal account frozen would you still recommend them? How many horror stories have to be told before you would stop recommending them?

  4. #29
    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mortgages12
    A bunch of whiners. 99% of them probably have no idea they screwed up so they think everything is Paypal's fault. They don't know how things work but they know how they want it to work and when it doesn't it's not their fault.
    Quote Originally Posted by mortgages12
    With you being on the inside of the industry it's understandable that you would defend them. If it happened to you I'm sure you would be singing a different tune though, put yourself in the consumer's shoes for a minute here.
    If I didn't know what I know I'd be frustrated that I didn't have my money. Who wouldn't be? Wouldn't mean I'm right though.
    Quote Originally Posted by mortgages12
    Now that you have chatted with someone who has had their Paypal account frozen would you still recommend them? How many horror stories have to be told before you would stop recommending them?
    I would still recommend Paypal when they are appropriate as I always have. They're great for low volume merchants. And they've done nothing wrong. Unhappy customers are part of doing business. Paypal happens to make far more people happy then not. It's just the unhappy people who scream the loudest.

  5. #30
    SitePoint Member mortgages12's Avatar
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    My stance was the same as yours regarding those paypalsucks whiners and who the hell cares about Paypal's unhappy customers anyway.

    Things change when it personally happens to you though. But I'm just an unhappy customer screaming, chock it up, who cares. They're still, oh so good. They froze my empty account, can't tell me why and won't unfreeze it. Still seems like a good enough comapny to get your merchant account from though.

    End of rant. I'm done.

  6. #31
    SitePoint Addict paypalrb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mortgages12
    That's the sad part. They don't even know the reason why I was frozen, I didn't even have any money in my account.
    When you say "frozen", do you mean you can't log in, or just that when you log in your account has a negative balance? If you received a Buyer Complaint or chargeback on a previous transaction, and there was no money in the account, your account balance would be negative and you would need to add funds to restore your balance to zero.
    Sell more worldwide!
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  7. #32
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    This seems to almost be going backwards. I have actually cancelled my Verisign's gateway (I got it just as a backup but never needed it). Since Paypal got Verisign, I have received emails asking me to switch. So I am just cancelling everything with Paypal - I was only doing about $1,000 a week with them and migrate everyone over to my merchant account

  8. #33
    SitePoint Addict paypalrb's Avatar
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    [Quote from previous page]
    - Can I send a direct mail campaign to the shipping address provided by a PayPal customer?
    - Can I send marketing emails to the email addresses provided by PayPal customers?
    - How can I use the information I collect from customers who use my Direct Payment checkout?
    First of all, I'm sorry that it took so long to get back to this - however, I now have answers for you.

    For transactions where PayPal provides you a customer's information, such as a shipping address, under PayPal's Privacy Policy you cannot use this information for marketing communications without the customer's consent. This applies for payments received through Express Checkout as well as other payment methods, such as PayPal's Website Payments Standard.

    The Privacy Policy states, in part:

    Your Use of Information and Our Services
    In order to facilitate the transactions between PayPal members, our service allows you limited access other users' contact or shipping information. As a seller you may have access to the User ID, email address and other contact or shipping information of the purchaser, and as a purchaser you may have access to the User ID, email address and other contact information of the seller.

    By entering into our User Agreement, you agree that, with respect to other users' personally identifiable information that you obtain through the site or through an PayPal-related communication or PayPal-facilitated transaction, you will only use this information for: (a) PayPal-related communications that are not unsolicited commercial messages, (b) using services offered through PayPal (e.g. insurance, shipping and fraud complaints), and (c) any other purpose that such user expressly agrees to after adequate disclosure of the purpose(s).

    In all cases, you must provide users with the opportunity to remove themselves from your database and review any information you have collected about them. In addition, under no circumstances, except as defined in this Section, can you disclose personally identifiable information about another PayPal user to any third party without our consent and the consent of such other user after adequate disclosure. Note that law enforcement personnel and other rights holders are given different rights with respect to information they access.

    PayPal does not tolerate spam. Therefore, without limiting the foregoing, you may not add a PayPal user to your mail list (email or physical mail) without their express consent after adequate disclosure, even if said user has previously made a purchase from you.
    (Underlines added for emphasis)

    In the case of Direct Payment transactions, you are obtaining the customer's information from the customer, and not from PayPal, so your use of that information would not fall under PayPal's Privacy Policy. (It would be subject to your own privacy policy and you should comply with all applicable laws.)

    So, to answer the original questions:

    - Can I send a direct mail campaign to the shipping address provided by a PayPal customer?
    Yes, if you presented the user with an opt-in for direct physical marketing communications on your website and they chose to opt-in. You must also provide a means to opt-out at any time.

    - Can I send marketing emails to the email addresses provided by PayPal customers?
    Yes, if you presented the user with an opt-in for email marketing communications on your website and they chose to opt-in. You must also provide a means to opt-out at any time.

    - How can I use the information I collect from customers who use my Direct Payment checkout?
    You may use this information in any way that is permitted under your own privacy policy, provided that you comply with all applicable laws.


    I think there may have been some confusion due to the business rules for Express Checkout usage with Website Payments Pro, when it is used along with the Direct Payment option. The rules basically state that you should not be asking customers for information such as a shipping or billing address prior to offering them the Express Checkout option; however, that is to ensure that they are able to bypass these fields on your website and expedite their checkout by using the information already available in their PayPal accounts. Once they have returned to your website to complete their purchase, you still have an opportunity to ask them whether they would like to receive direct mail and email communications from you for marketing purposes. As long as you comply with PayPal's Privacy Policy, you can still ask PayPal users to opt-in to your marketing lists.
    Sell more worldwide!
    PayPal Website Payments Pro and Virtual Terminal
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  9. #34
    SitePoint Addict paypalrb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paypalrb
    - How can I use the information I collect from customers who use my Direct Payment checkout?
    You may use this information in any way that is permitted under your own privacy policy, provided that you comply with all applicable laws.
    Unfortunately, I did not include the restrictions listed in the Pro agreement, which you must follow in using Direct Payment:

    Unless you obtain consents from us and each applicable Association, card issuing bank and Cardholder, you must not use, disclose, sell or disseminate any Cardholder information obtained in connection with a Card transaction (including the names, addresses and Card account numbers of Cardholders) except for purposes of authorizing, completing and settling Card transactions and resolving any chargebacks, retrieval requests or similar issues involving Card transactions, other than pursuant to a court or governmental agency request, subpoena or order.
    Sell more worldwide!
    PayPal Website Payments Pro and Virtual Terminal
    now support 6 currencies and 174 countries

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by paypalrb
    Unfortunately, I did not include the restrictions listed in the Pro agreement, which you must follow in using Direct Payment:

    I'm convinced is NOT WORTH IT. Right now I basically own that info, I don't have to ask permission. I can do direct mail, grab their emails, etc. This is huge. Now I just think it was a dumb question even asking...lol


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