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  1. #1
    SitePoint Enthusiast BlogPatrol's Avatar
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    Question Ad Publishing - To Pop or Not to Pop?

    What are the factors that influence your decision to serve any kind of pop advertising (e.g., pop-up, pop-under, pop-in, etc.) on a particular web site?

    I've done just a little experimenting with pop campaigns ranging from a few days to a few weeks, and so far I've found that these factors are important:

    1. Expectations of user audience. For example, if you are offering a free service, how much advertising are they willing to put up with from pop ads to still get to the content or service your site provides.
    2. Ability to shut down illegal malware ads running any kind of adware, spyware, viruses, etc.
    3. Overall ability to manage frequency of how many pop ads are served for a given time frame (per browser session, per 12-hour period, per day, etc.).
    4. Revenue comparisons. So far, I've seen that no other CPM comes even close to that paid by pop ads, which pretty much explains why I'm even bothering to consider serving them over the long term.

    I'm new to the pluses and minuses of using pop ads, so any comments or suggestions are really appreciated!
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  2. #2
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    I'd say it really depends on the factors you mentioned, and chiefly #1. Pretty much everybody (myself included) hates pop-up ads with a passion. There isn't much question about that. However, I think that users are willing to put up with them at certain types of sites. If there's something substantial being provided free, I expect and tolerate a few pop-ups. However, if more than one new window opens at any given time, I get aggravated and will usually leave the site.
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  3. #3
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    community orientated site (ie repeat visitors): No
    SE site with infrequent visitors: Yes

    Thats the way I work it.

  4. #4
    l º 0 º l silver trophybronze trophy lo0ol's Avatar
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    I think #4 is a big part for me. Pops are just too lucrative to ignore right now. I am trying to move to some other format to be able to drop pops, but right now it just doesn't work out yet.
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  5. #5
    SitePoint Enthusiast BlogPatrol's Avatar
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    Thanks for the cool feedback.

    For those of us who are using (or previously used) pop ad programs, which programs have given you the best controls to manage which ads are served, especially to avoid malware.

    I've tried PayPopUp.com, which has a neat "report illegal ads" feature. Like many brokers though, PayPopUp often subcontracts inventory with other firms so that they themselves only have limited control of which ad content is served in the pop windows. Hence, the "report illegal ads" feature. Downside: Decent rates, but still lower than others such as PopUpTraffic.com.

    PopUpTraffic.com has very high payout rates, but I haven't yet found the same level of controls. Also, when I briefly experimented with their ads, I found that the pop under ad took long enough to load that it caused me to wonder what kind of script might have been installed on my computer. (I got spooked and removed the ad script right away.) I'm planning to do some further test runs on one of my smaller sites to look more closely at what goes on when the pops are served (will post any results I find).

    I guess here's another question: who is the "ideal" ad broker for pops (for basic criteria, refer to the four talking points and replies listed above).

    Any leads to recommended companies?
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  6. #6
    SitePoint Wizard Rabies's Avatar
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    I'd say you should consider all points you raised.

    1. Stick to pop-unders only. They don't "interrupt" a person's site navigation, whereas a pop-up does.

    2. Use them only if from a reputable ad service. (I can vouch for Fastclick).

    3. Use them only if it's possible to limit them to 1 per visit or even less.


    Personally, I've been using Fastclick pop-unders since day one that they started offering them (years!). Pays more than banners. But their code is solid enough that people don't get more than 1 per 12 hrs.

    I just tried Casale Media's for the weekend and unfortunately I have now removed them. Although the account settings offer a setting for limiting frequency, when I test it on my site pop-unders appeared for every single page refresh. That's unacceptable. So I have removed them (as well as emailing Casale tech support).

    ~RB

  7. #7
    SitePoint Enthusiast BlogPatrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabies
    Personally, I've been using Fastclick pop-unders since day one that they started offering them (years!). Pays more than banners. But their code is solid enough that people don't get more than 1 per 12 hrs.

    ~RB
    I'm going to check out Fastclick as well and see how they do. Thanks, RB!
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  8. #8
    SitePoint Addict dotancohen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlogPatrol
    PopUpTraffic.com has very high payout rates, but I haven't yet found the same level of controls. Also, when I briefly experimented with their ads, I found that the pop under ad took long enough to load that it caused me to wonder what kind of script might have been installed on my computer. (I got spooked and removed the ad script right away.) I'm planning to do some further test runs on one of my smaller sites to look more closely at what goes on when the pops are served (will post any results I find).
    Are you on Windows? I don't want to start a flame war, or to take this thread off topic, but didn't you just convince yourself to dump Windows?

    Would you mind if I quote you and start a new topic on this?

    Dotan Cohen
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  9. #9
    SitePoint Enthusiast BlogPatrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotancohen
    Are you on Windows? I don't want to start a flame war, or to take this thread off topic, but didn't you just convince yourself to dump Windows?

    Would you mind if I quote you and start a new topic on this? Dotan Cohen
    Hi dotancohen,

    It's not that I've given up pop under windows, it's just that I'm still searching for that ideal balance of minimal annoyance for visitors, reliable frequency capping, trustworthiness of serving non-spy/non-adware windows, and high payouts for publishers.

    I suppose that I'm conceding that, in order to keep my service free for BlogPatrol users, I have to serve some level of pop under windows until I find better ad publishing opportunities that help to pay for the lease and support of three dedicated servers.

    I'm currently doing test campaigns using Pop Unders by CasaleMedia on some pages and FastClick on other pages. (I'm working on giving TribalFusion a try too, but it's a bit of work getting set up with them.) The performance seems to be pretty good, but I feel that it's still early to tell anything definitive. (At least I’m not seeing those scare ‘mini-windows’ that seem to be loading/downloading without any content at all.)

    I definitely encourage more discussion to find out how best to serve ads that do not propagate adware or spyware. It still scares me that I’m relying on ad networks to help guard against advertising that installs any kind of malware on visitors’ systems. I look forward to reading about how we can provide safer advertising while still keeping the cash flow in the positive.
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  10. #10
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    Most of my sites are primarily SE traffic so I use them.... My theory is they probably won't come back anyway so might as well community heavy sections I don't show them.

  11. #11
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    I use both Interclick and fastclick for popunders/inters/invues etc.

    They both are pretty good, and their rates are generally pretty close. If I had to chose between the two I'd be stuck. I prefer the Interclick way of doing things, and I also like the slightly better control fastclick give me.

  12. #12
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    If I stopped using popunders I'd lose around $5k a month in revenue.

    But I'm against any download based ads, so I won't serve those.

    Also like others I don't show them on any forums.

    I just tried Casale Media's for the weekend and unfortunately I have now removed them. Although the account settings offer a setting for limiting frequency, when I test it on my site pop-unders appeared for every single page refresh. That's unacceptable. So I have removed them (as well as emailing Casale tech support).
    I've never had an issue with that. Maybe you were blocking their cookies?
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  13. #13
    SitePoint Enthusiast BlogPatrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspen
    But I'm against any download based ads, so I won't serve those.
    Thanks, Aspen. Can you share any tips on how you detect those download-based adas? (Hopefully this isn't a question with too obvious of an answer; I'm still a novice when it comes to publishing pop ads).

    The best I can think of at the moment is to manually monitor test runs from one of my smaller sites to see what kind of pops appear. If either I or a malware detection program spots something, then I know I don't want to serve those ads or ads from that vendor.
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  14. #14
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    I dont detect them, I just don't use networks that serve them.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspen
    If I stopped using popunders I'd lose around $5k a month in revenue.

    But I'm against any download based ads, so I won't serve those.

    Also like others I don't show them on any forums.



    I've never had an issue with that. Maybe you were blocking their cookies?

    Do you mind sharing which popup networks you use?

    Also, what is your opinion on interstitials? Currently that is what I use. I am not sure whether visitors hate interstitials or popups more.

  16. #16
    SitePoint Addict AllClicks Robert's Avatar
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    BlogPatrol,

    LMK how you make out and if we can do anything for you.
    - Claxon Media - CPM banners/leaders/skys/squares
    Net 15 payments via Check, bank wire, or Paypal

    - PopUpTraffic.com - The original pop program. $3 to $4 CPMs

  17. #17
    SitePoint Enthusiast BlogPatrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllClicks Robert
    BlogPatrol,

    LMK how you make out and if we can do anything for you.
    Thanks AllClicksRobert, I've just sent you a PM to discuss a test run of your popunders. I'll be very interested to learn more about your service and to see the results!
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  18. #18
    SitePoint Member chrisfelton's Avatar
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    No to PopUps

    I use Firefox so I never notice PopUps. Personally I think a lot more money can be made by optimizing you current mix of contextual and banner advertising.
    Are you placing your ads in the right places?
    How relevant are they?
    What audience are you targeting?
    PopUps are a great way to drive away traffic.

  19. #19
    SitePoint Addict AllClicks Robert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisfelton
    PopUps are a great way to drive away traffic.
    Chris,

    With all due respect...do you have a cite for this?
    - Claxon Media - CPM banners/leaders/skys/squares
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    - PopUpTraffic.com - The original pop program. $3 to $4 CPMs

  20. #20
    SitePoint Guru
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    I don't mean this in any disrespectable way, I really don't.

    But I have tested out every Popup provider. Even ones I knew wouldn't pay. And PopUptraffic had by far the worst count of any network I used. I even used one once that only counted US pops per 72 hours. And they beat the PUT count 3:1

    PayPopUp which even admits they pick random numbers out of their butt Beat PUT like 11:1 9with a 24 hour cookie)

  21. #21
    SitePoint Enthusiast mcstang's Avatar
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    And I guess just in case you think this is just me unfairly targeting your network, let me quote another user in this thread.



    Quote Originally Posted by fireklown
    I don't mean this in any disrespectable way, I really don't.

    But I have tested out every Popup provider. Even ones I knew wouldn't pay. And PopUptraffic had by far the worst count of any network I used. I even used one once that only counted US pops per 72 hours. And they beat the PUT count 3:1

    PayPopUp which even admits they pick random numbers out of their butt Beat PUT like 11:1 9with a 24 hour cookie)
    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...5&postcount=17

    Im just going to let the screenshots and the publishers opinions speak for themselves.
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  22. #22
    SitePoint Zealot Matt_M's Avatar
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    Aspen, what popup provider do you use?

  23. #23
    Vermicious Knid moncur's Avatar
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    > Personally I think a lot more money can be made by optimizing you current mix of contextual and banner advertising.

    It depends on the site. For high-traffic sites that don't happen to be on a popular topic for contextual ads, nothing* beats popunders for CPM right now.

    I think they're on the way out, and other forms of ads are increasing to compensate, but I run them on certain sites because my audience doesn't object as long as I cap the frequency.

    * except pop-ups, but I have to draw the line somewhere.

  24. #24
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    popunders suck! I don't think many people ever look at them, and if your site has lots of return visitors, it just gets annoying...and can drive them away if its relentless.

  25. #25
    SitePoint Enthusiast JebBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulchie
    popunders suck! I don't think many people ever look at them, and if your site has lots of return visitors, it just gets annoying...and can drive them away if its relentless.
    Popunders are certainly much better the popups. Popunders do work.
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