SitePoint Sponsor |
|
User Tag List
Results 26 to 50 of 202
-
Sep 23, 2005, 19:54 #26
Originally Posted by worchyld
Sara
-
Sep 23, 2005, 21:01 #27
- Join Date
- Mar 2005
- Posts
- 314
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
Originally Posted by lazy_yogi
I'd rather come to a place where people actually use it or know about it (to discuss it) rather than read countless tutorials and static opinions.
Just my 2 cents.
-
Sep 23, 2005, 21:17 #28
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Posts
- 255
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
Originally Posted by Sojan80
My personal philosophy is to always be familiar with all the popular languages out there, because, sooner or later, you WILL have to deal with one of them.
You should also realize that no single language is suitable for every task. Java comes close, but it's got at least one major shortcoming in every area of development, so it's usually best to use another language.
Personally, my development goes like this:
Web Development (Web Applications, Web Pages):
Primary: PHP
Secondary: Perl, Java
Desktop Applications:
Primary: C#
Secondary: Visual FoxPro (an all time favorite, actually, unfortunately it's missing some functionality that C# delivers much better).
Performance Critical (embedded, 3d simulations, etc.):
Primary: C++
Secondary: C
I'm also quite comfortable with Java, Delphi/Pascal, VB / VB.Net, and familiar enough with Python, Ruby, and common lisp to know how to fix problems in code and tie things together (although I'm not particularly fond of any of them).
Every programmer who works with the web should be intimately familiar with html, xml (and all major xml schemas: xhtml, svg, etc.), css, and javascript as well.
You can PROBABLY get by just sticking with 1 language, but your career will never really expand out that much. There are plenty of guys who have just done work on mainframes their whole lives using COBOL or FORTRAN or something -- you know what they do now? The maintain legacy mainframe apps until the new web-based ones are ready for production. Call me crazy, but that's hardly my idea of an exciting career.
My recommendation is to try to learn as many languages as you have time. You may well discover that learning a new language makes you a better programmer in a language that you already know, or, even better, you may discover a language that you like better than whatever you're using right now.
Languages are not family. I'm baffled as to why people cling so desperately to them. You can always learn a new language, especially when dealing with C-derived languages (C, C++, D, C#, Java, PHP all being obvious examples) without much difficulty. Languages derived from BASIC or smalltalk shouldn't be too hard, either. Now, that isn't to say that there aren't always new, challenging languages out there to learn. Try tackling LISP or even good ole' x86 assembly some time.
-
Sep 23, 2005, 22:57 #29
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
- Location
- Stockholm, Sweden
- Posts
- 148
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
Originally Posted by CapitalWebHost
If you don't understand the difference between the language Ruby and the framework Ruby on Rails maybe you shouldn't make comments on how hard or easy it is to install them?If there is a way to overcome the suffering, there is no need to worry; if there is no way to overcome the suffering, there is no point to worry.
- Shantideva
-
Sep 24, 2005, 04:25 #30
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
- Location
- Romania
- Posts
- 848
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
Originally Posted by Etnu
Originally Posted by Etnu
What about Perl ?
Originally Posted by Etnu
. Sorry dude, I don't believe you.
Originally Posted by Etnu
Learning 10 languages will probably make you a good programmer. But you will be far worst in any of the 10 languages that any other programmer that focuses on just 1-2 languages
Originally Posted by Etnu
But does that make me a good programmer ? yeah right
-
Sep 24, 2005, 05:09 #31
- Join Date
- Jun 2002
- Posts
- 616
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
It's always good to know more languages than just one. I've been planning to start using Python or Ruby for the last year but so far not had the chance, may even go back to doing websites in Rebol.
-
Sep 24, 2005, 06:01 #32
- Join Date
- Jun 2003
- Location
- ether
- Posts
- 4,497
- Mentioned
- 1 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
Originally Posted by bonefry
For all you know, he might be telling the truth, its not impossible. I myself am more than proficient in Basic, C++, VC++, VB6, Java, ASP, PHP and know more than basic stuff in Perl, VB.NET, Pascal and now I'm learning Ruby & Python. So what?? Next you might be saying that you don't believe me, take a hike, do I care whether you believe or not? I know what I know, it doesn't depend on whether you believe it or not!!
The real thing is that you may know many languages, but you hardly work with more than 2-3 of them over a period of time, so you remain fluent in them while you get rusty in others. Now I've been working solely with PHP for quite some time, so I'm obviously quite rusty in others, the more time since I last used a language, the more rusty I'll be with it!!Our lives teach us who we are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Me - Photo Blog - Personal Blog - Dev Blog
iG:Syntax Hiliter -- Colourize your code in WordPress!!
-
Sep 24, 2005, 07:10 #33
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
- Location
- Romania
- Posts
- 848
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
Originally Posted by asp_funda
My reply is again: when pigs will fly
PS: if you are "more than proeficient" with Java and VC++ how came you are working in PHP again ? If only because Java and C++ programmers are much better paid, and it is still enough to use PHP only in pet projects.
Seems curious that's all.
@EDITED: BTW nobody asked what languages you know
-
Sep 24, 2005, 07:26 #34
every time it seems that for you is more important (and "cool"
) to know 750 languages than to master very well a powerful language like it is php mainly in a web development environment.
I am sure that here, those who state that they know even two or three languages (php included), don't know php at 100%.
I have been studing php for some week and my intention is to know it very well and not superficially. I'm not thinking how many languages i can learn. I want to be a web developer so my tools are xhtml, css, php, javascript ecc, and i want to know them very well.
-
Sep 24, 2005, 08:24 #35
Everyone take a deep breath....and just calm down...
Get your heelys now at flywalk.co.uk - But what are heelys?
Heelys are simply shoes with wheels in the heels!
Flywalk.co.uk - The UK Heelys Retailer
-
Sep 24, 2005, 08:42 #36
- Join Date
- Jun 2003
- Location
- Iowa, USA
- Posts
- 3,749
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
Off Topic:
I think things are derailing a bit here. Lets not bicker and argue about who knows what languages. I think it is reasonably safe to say if you can program well in a single language, then it only takes about a week of concentrated effort to pick up the syntax of another language sufficiently to be productive. I think the more subtle issue is that it takes about two years of resonably consistent work in a language to really become proficient with it.
I use to program in C, but that was more than ten years ago, and I am now so rusty I would be embarased to include it on my resume. None the less, I did program professionally in C for two years. Do I "know C"?
As to the original posters questions, "What is Ruby, and why should I care?", Ruby is an interpreted scripting language (like PHP, Python or Perl). It borrows concepts from many other languages, and is object oriented to the core, unlike many other scripting languages which originated from procedural origins. This allows you do things like assign a number to a variable, and then use methods appropriate to numeric data on that variable:
Code:>> a = 65.234356 => 65.234356 >> a.round => 65
Jason Sweat ZCE - jsweat_php@yahoo.com
Book: PHP Patterns
Good Stuff: SimpleTest PHPUnit FireFox ADOdb YUI
Detestable (adjective): software that isn't testable.
-
Sep 24, 2005, 09:43 #37
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
- Location
- Romania
- Posts
- 848
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
I used Ruby latelly for scripting jobs - i.e. something like Ant for my PHP scripts.
It worked great.
I just can't wait to take make it do more complex things.
-
Sep 24, 2005, 10:08 #38
- Join Date
- Jun 2003
- Location
- ether
- Posts
- 4,497
- Mentioned
- 1 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
Originally Posted by bonefry
Off Topic:
I learned Java first & then VC++ & then PHP, I never quite liked VC++ much(you can say I found it a bit boring, besides I like web-programming & VC++ is not originally for it, though it can be used on web as well). As to why I'm using PHP instead of Java etc. well, that's for my boss to decide as to what languages the projects will be deployed in!! I get the salary irrespective of whether I spent whole month coding PHP or VC++ or anything else.
I know VC++ jobs are quite well paying but then, I believe that if you work only for money & not for what you like, then you'll get bored with it pretty soon. You gotta like what you do to keep doing it for long & with ever increasing level of skill. I like web-programming instead of desktop applications, and I love coding in PHP & ASP. I think that should answer your question sufficiently!!
Originally Posted by bonefry
Off Topic:
I know. And nobody asked you whether you believed that guy when he said he knows that many languages. Does it answer your statement?I just mentioned them for example, to contradict you when what you said implied that people who know 5-6 languages or more are not real!! Even if you didn't mean to imply that, I got that impression from your post!! I think I've made my point!!
Originally Posted by Skyblaze
Off Topic:
Atleast I've never said that I know any language 100%.I can go on to say that I know it 80% or 85% but never more!! And I've yet to come across someone who says that he know C or C++ 100% or even PHP!!
Our lives teach us who we are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Me - Photo Blog - Personal Blog - Dev Blog
iG:Syntax Hiliter -- Colourize your code in WordPress!!
-
Sep 24, 2005, 10:14 #39
- Join Date
- Jan 2003
- Posts
- 866
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
As a guy who hires programmers, I prefer someone who specializes rather than attempts to be the jack of all trades.
-
Sep 24, 2005, 10:24 #40Atleast I've never said that I know any language 100%. I can go on to say that I know it 80% or 85% but never more!! And I've yet to come across someone who says that he know C or C++ 100% or even PHP!!
What i want to say is that if i like web programming (and i work for it) and i know that php is still the best and wide adopted tool to do that, why i have to study a language that is more general and not suited specifically for web programming? I have a tool (php) and i do anything in web programming with it......i like to know it at 100% rather than study other languages that i don't need.
-
Sep 24, 2005, 10:34 #41
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
- Location
- Romania
- Posts
- 848
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
Originally Posted by asp_funda
Originally Posted by asp_funda
On the other hand I am really excited about Ruby. The only grief I have with it is that it's a little slow. But hopefully they will release Yarv soon. From the benchmarks it shows potential.
-
Sep 24, 2005, 12:15 #42
- Join Date
- Jan 2003
- Posts
- 5,748
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
I'm also quite comfortable with Java, Delphi/Pascal, VB / VB.Net, and familiar enough with Python, Ruby, and common lisp to know how to fix problems in code and tie things together
I'd have to agree with what Bonefry has to say about it. No one that I've met knows that many languages, in a consise manner that they've had to use them from one day to the next, at some point in their career.
For all you know, he might be telling the truth, its not impossible.
To make a claim that you know this, that and those over there to me is laughable, but even more shocking, is that prospective employer's enrol their employment based on those claims
-
Sep 24, 2005, 12:28 #43
- Join Date
- Jun 2003
- Location
- ether
- Posts
- 4,497
- Mentioned
- 1 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
Originally Posted by bonefry
Infact I didn't read if Etnu was criticising Ruby or not, I know I wasn't, hell, I'm learning it & from what little bit I've learnt, I like it!!
Our lives teach us who we are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Me - Photo Blog - Personal Blog - Dev Blog
iG:Syntax Hiliter -- Colourize your code in WordPress!!
-
Sep 24, 2005, 12:37 #44
- Join Date
- Jun 2003
- Location
- ether
- Posts
- 4,497
- Mentioned
- 1 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
Originally Posted by Skyblaze
Originally Posted by Skyblaze
Originally Posted by Skyblaze
And you must've heard of it before as well, if there's a job for a PHP programmer & 2 candidates are finialised, 1 knows PHP quite well but nothing else, other knows PHP quite well & 2-3 other languages as well, the recruiter will hire the 2nd guy who knows more than 1 language. Sure he'll first look for what he needs(PHP) & other languages are just added bonus. I never say that you gotta be a jack of all trades & specialist of none, infact what I advise is that you should learn as many things you want, there's never a harm in learning a trade or tool or skill, but you should know atleast one of them very very well.
Originally Posted by Skyblaze
Our lives teach us who we are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Me - Photo Blog - Personal Blog - Dev Blog
iG:Syntax Hiliter -- Colourize your code in WordPress!!
-
Sep 24, 2005, 12:44 #45
- Join Date
- Jun 2003
- Location
- ether
- Posts
- 4,497
- Mentioned
- 1 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
Originally Posted by Dr Livingston
Our lives teach us who we are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Me - Photo Blog - Personal Blog - Dev Blog
iG:Syntax Hiliter -- Colourize your code in WordPress!!
-
Sep 24, 2005, 12:45 #46if you like to stick with one stuff, then so be it, don't let others convert you to the dark side!!
What i mean is that if i am a web developer and i have php i don't need to know also a language to do desktop applications.
-
Sep 24, 2005, 13:38 #47
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
- Location
- Atlanta, GA, USA
- Posts
- 5,011
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
Originally Posted by Skyblaze
It might take you an hour or two to go from 0% to 25% with a language, but going from 90% to 95% might take years. (I think this is the source of the conflict above relating to "how many languages do you know")
So, let's say you know PHP 70%. You've reached a point where if you study as hard as you can you might improve 1% in a week. Meanwhile, going from 0% to 30% in Ruby on Rails may take you an hour or so, and in the process you might learn techniques that you can take back to PHP. Doesn't seem to me like a bad way to spend some time.
You don't have to devote your life to Ruby or Rails instantly, you don't have to stop using PHP, you just pick up a little here and there and see if it catches your interest. If nothing else, that will help you remain certain you've made the right choice with PHP.
Originally Posted by Skyblaze
Using your unpaid time to add free content to SitePoint Pty Ltd's portfolio?
-
Sep 24, 2005, 14:45 #48
- Join Date
- Jun 2003
- Location
- Iowa, USA
- Posts
- 3,749
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
Originally Posted by samsm
Jason Sweat ZCE - jsweat_php@yahoo.com
Book: PHP Patterns
Good Stuff: SimpleTest PHPUnit FireFox ADOdb YUI
Detestable (adjective): software that isn't testable.
-
Sep 24, 2005, 15:32 #49
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
- Location
- Atlanta, GA, USA
- Posts
- 5,011
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
Originally Posted by sweatje
Using your unpaid time to add free content to SitePoint Pty Ltd's portfolio?
-
Sep 24, 2005, 16:28 #50
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Posts
- 255
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
Originally Posted by bonefry
Just simple curiosity. What frameworks are you using in Java ?
What about Perl ?
Boy, you sure claim to know a lot of languages. Sorry dude, I don't believe you.
For the record, here are languages I've written entire applications in:
Pascal / Delphi: This was the first language I learned, going back to when I was about 10.
FoxPro: My first professional programming job required it. I developed a multi-million dollar point of sales system around it.
VB: See above (utility applications).
C/C++: like most people, I learned them around the same time. I've written a level editor which generates maps that can be used in quake and unreal, a terrain simulation, and a first-person shooter that used maps exported from quake.
x86ASM: I wrote the BSP compiler for my map editor almost entirely this way, because it sped up map compilation by a factor of 10.
Java: I've written 2 different games for cell phones in Java, and I've done a lot of work through itmoonlighter.com and the like on java projects, and, like most people my age, the bulk of my university projects were in Java.
PHP: I've been working with it professionally and personally for about 4 years.
I've been programming professionally for about 8 years now. I'd say I learn on average about 1 new language a year "really well". You can make all the silly assumptions about the quality of my work that you like, but I don't get any complaints (and my salary certainly doesn't reflect that either).
That is what you get when you focus on new technologies instead of focusing on alghorithms and design patterns.
Learning 10 languages will probably make you a good programmer. But you will be far worst in any of the 10 languages that any other programmer that focuses on just 1-2 languages
Yes, if you mean the syntax. I myself can write the "Hello World" application in aprox 15 languagesBut does that make me a good programmer ? yeah right
PS: if you are "more than proeficient" with Java and VC++ how came you are working in PHP again ? If only because Java and C++ programmers are much better paid, and it is still enough to use PHP only in pet projects.
Seems curious that's all.
I am sure that here, those who state that they know even two or three languages (php included), don't know php at 100%.
I don't really believe you either. Take Ruby for example, just how much experience with this language have you got? From design to completion, how many applications?
That's not to say that everybody is a competent programmer, of course. Quite the opposite, actually. Mediocre programmers are a dime a dozen.
Languages CHANGE. If you can't adapt, you will die (not literally, i'm talking about your career), and you have no business being a software developer in the first place. Whatever language you're using right now will NOT be where the jobs are at in 25 years. Hell, it probably won't even be where the jobs are at in 5 or 10 years.
Bookmarks