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  1. #1
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    No upgrade for IE7

    "...support for the “application/xml+xhtml” MIME type in IE. I should say that IE7 will not add support for this MIME type." -- Chris Wilson, Microsoft.

    That's one small step for other browsers...one giant leap for Microsoft. Again MS fails to approach standards and fall further behind.

  2. #2
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    And how many sites on the web actually use application/xhtml+xml? Ten?

    Support for it would be nice, but there are a million more pressing features and fixes that they should get into IE7 before thinking about application/xhtml+xml. Also remember that adding support for this means that MS has to change many things about how their DOM and CSS handling work, which eats into time they could spend fixing CSS bugs and adding CSS 2 support which they're doing.

  3. #3
    Web Design Ireland cianuro's Avatar
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    Never ceases to amaze me. Serves them right. Adding tabs and more CSS support is not what it takes. Put in some effort MS. For your own sake.

  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    And how many sites on the web actually use application/xhtml+xml? Ten?
    And they don't use it...why? (HINT: The answer is in the first post.)

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    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine
    And they don't use it...why? (HINT: The answer is in the first post.)
    Okay, but look at it this way: of all the features that web developers use that other browsers support but IE/Win doesn't (like more advanced CSS), the MIME type thing is the least used. When other issues like :hover on everything and fixing the guillotine bug are marked as more important by web developers (not even by Microsoft), why should MS care more than the other features?

    I'm not trying to start an ad nauseum argument here where we keep repeating the same things. I just want to know why you think Microsoft should care about this issue from a customer support and satisfaction perspective rather than some "I think it would be cool so they should pay their developers to work on it" perspective.

  6. #6
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    I'm not saying they should drop everything else to do this. I am saying it is another example of MS continued lack of support for standards as a whole. While other browsers support this and are moving forward onto CSS3, MS struggles with CSS and DOM support. While all the other browsers make progress on xhtml and xml, MS can't make their own work with it until IE8? In 2007 or later?

    More evidence that IE is a waste of time. Switch to FF and Opera.

  7. #7
    Web Design Ireland cianuro's Avatar
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    I think it is improtant to note that you can say switch to FF or Opera all you want, but the fact of the matter is that millions of people still use IE and many are not even aware of alternatives.

    Microsofts lack of support is holding back application developers bring their newtechnology based content and sites to this large group of people.

  8. #8
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine
    I'm not saying they should drop everything else to do this. I am saying it is another example of MS continued lack of support for standards as a whole. While other browsers support this and are moving forward onto CSS3, MS struggles with CSS and DOM support. While all the other browsers make progress on xhtml and xml, MS can't make their own work with it until IE8? In 2007 or later?
    So what do you want them to do, release nothing until they can get all this other stuff in? Be prepared to wait even longer then. I'd rather have some progress now and some later than all of it later.

    I'd also like you to know that CSS 3 isn't a Candidate Recommendation yet so MS is under no obligation to support it because it can still change. Also remember that MS was first out of the gate with XML/XSLT support, back in IE 5. Unfortunately, they implemented a working draft of the XSLT recommendation in that browser (since the final wasn't ready at the time of release) and the spec changed afterwards, which made lots of people upset at MS for implementing an unfinished spec. You may hate what Microsoft is/isn't doing, but they have valid historical reasoning for doing so when it comes to things like CSS 3.
    Quote Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine
    More evidence that IE is a waste of time. Switch to FF and Opera.
    I split my time pretty evenly between Firefox and Opera. But I still have to support IE.

    Quote Originally Posted by cianuro
    Microsofts lack of support is holding back application developers bring their new technology based content and sites to this large group of people.
    How has Microsoft held app developers back? Web developers maybe, but I think they bend over backwards and then some for application developers.

    Also, given the relative non-adoption of application/xhtml+xml I don't think many are clamoring for it over other more useful features.


    I'm just saying that at this point in time, this is a petty battle to fight. Microsoft is doing good things with their browser update, albeit a little late. Let's enjoy that for a little while before we get on the complaining bandwagon again.

  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    So what do you want them to do, release nothing until they can get all this other stuff in?
    That's pretty much what they did with IE. It has only had security fixes for six years now. IE7 fixes some css bugs but only adds two current CSS implementations.
    But I still have to support IE.
    As do we all. This is the gripe. Because IE is so far behind everything and everyone, we have to write our code twice. Once for standards and again for IE. At least with hacks in mind. We shouldn't have to do this.
    Sure, the CSS3 standards have not been finalized but FF and Opera are getting there and they aren't as big as MS. MS has already said they won't support some CSS2 items. (from IEBlog)
    this is a petty battle to fight. Microsoft is doing good things with their browser update, albeit a little late.
    Six years and counting. It's hardly petty when you can't code to standards knowing it won't work in IE. It's too bad the Justice Dept.'s ruling was ineffective against MS removing IE from Windows or, at least, make it an installable item. It would certainly have reduced the possibility of the unclean masses (regular users) using it in the first place and switching to an up to date browser.

  10. #10
    CSS & JS/DOM Adept bronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine
    That's pretty much what they did with IE. It has only had security fixes for six years now. IE7 fixes some css bugs but only adds two current CSS implementations.
    Hmm... I thought IE6 was released on 12/31/2001?

    Quote Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine
    MS has already said they won't support some CSS2 items.
    So? AFAIK even Mozilla 1.8 doesn't support CSS2's Automatic counters and numbering. I don't think Konqueror and Safari do either, however, Opera does support it.
    We miss you, Dan Schulz.
    Learn CSS. | X/HTML Validator | CSS validator
    Dynamic Site Solutions
    Code for Firefox, Chrome, Safari, & Opera, then add fixes for IE, not vice versa.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kravvitz
    So? AFAIK even Mozilla 1.8 doesn't support CSS2's Automatic counters and numbering.
    Yes it does.
    Simon Pieters

  12. #12
    CSS & JS/DOM Adept bronze trophy
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    Thanks, zcorpan. Apparently my test case was flawed. Firefox 1.5 beta 1's (moz1.8) implementation is a little different from Opera's.
    We miss you, Dan Schulz.
    Learn CSS. | X/HTML Validator | CSS validator
    Dynamic Site Solutions
    Code for Firefox, Chrome, Safari, & Opera, then add fixes for IE, not vice versa.


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