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  1. #26
    simple tester McGruff's Avatar
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    A lot of php'ers haven't had any formal training - myself included. I think you learn quicker the more contact you have with other people. This forum is a fantastic resource for example with lots of useful information about OOP design and patterns (and testing - have you looked at that?). You might find there's an XP group in your area. Most likely they'll be talking java but the principles are broadly the same.

  2. #27
    SitePoint Wizard
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    McGruff, thanks for the advice. I was a serious lurker on here when the MVC discussions started up some time ago. Went down the MVC road but soon realised I didn't understand the terminology/principles of what was going on - but liked the driving forces behind Design Patterns very much.

    When using PHP I find reusing stuff to be dangerous if you can't assure yourself that the security is right. (viz all the problems with noobs using out of the box CMSs).

    I like you idea about meeting people, and Im aware of a PHPUG in London, who seem terribly advanced, I will see if I can meet up.

    But back to the point of this thread, the sweatje book, I haven't read it, and seemingly we aren't going to get it in Europe. But methinks that a lot of it I already grok, what is oop, using php4 (Im all PHP5 now), basic usage - well, I know a lot of it now.

    The Head First book hits the spot for me - except its written in Java, like all the really good books seem to be...

    Hang on... is there such a thing as a Java->PHP5 converter?

    I started working thru all the examples documenting the differences between the languages as I went along - like I say till I got to a really, really complicated pattern, then other things came along- and I had to stop knocking myself out. Anyone else out there care to comment. Is there a lang comparison site out there? Is there a book planned that will do the same job as Head First Design Patterns for Java?

    [edit - I really wanted to publish what I had learned, but would there be a copyright issue with the publishers]

  3. #28
    eschew sesquipedalians silver trophy sweatje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulyG
    But back to the point of this thread, the sweatje book, I haven't read it, and seemingly we aren't going to get it in Europe.
    Why would that be?
    Jason Sweat ZCE - jsweat_php@yahoo.com
    Book: PHP Patterns
    Good Stuff: SimpleTest PHPUnit FireFox ADOdb YUI
    Detestable (adjective): software that isn't testable.

  4. #29
    throw me a bone ... now bonefry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulyG
    Hang on... is there such a thing as a Java->PHP5 converter?
    No, and it's not even possible.
    The best Java->PHP5 converter is a programmer who knows both.
    So why not post your code here and maybe we can help.

  5. #30
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Beware though, that the book can only be shipped to North America and Rest of the world. Might put off one or two of the regulars in theese forums.
    [rude word] - sorry everyone, I didn't read that posting properly

    As gdtrfb recomended earlier.

    I love the TDD methodology that this book uses. I've been struggling to understand how that works in practice...and to see so many examples of it here all tied in with design patterns too is just great!

    As for the actual design pattern content, PERSONALLY, I find Head First Design Patterns book from O'Reilly provides a better explanation of the concepts. Their examples are easier for me to follow. But I also read that book first so it's what I'm familiar with.

    Combining the two books is a great way to get good pattern theory and TDD best practices examples.
    Thanks for the offer Bonefry.

    Thanks for all your replies. I will now shut up and order the book, and dig myself out.

  6. #31
    Can we go to a 48 hour day?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweatje
    They should be headed your way soon. I just received my copies last night: http://blog.casey-sweat.us/index.php?p=62
    Just got mine here in MI last night. Started it a bit and heading off to download SimpleTest this morning to follow along. Wheee, new reading material.
    mitechie.com
    "Techies just think a little differently
    ...at least that is what they keep telling me."

  7. #32
    SitePoint Member
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    Once you purchased the book about how long did it take for you to get the password in your email?

    I made the purchase and downloaded the digital edition but i have not recieved an email with my password. I have tried using my php|arch username and also tried using the password but neither work.

    I am just starting with the design patterns approach but i know most all there is to know about PHP OO programming, i just need to expand to the advanced side of things as was stated in a previous response.

    I would like to start my reading

  8. #33
    Can we go to a 48 hour day?
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    I never received my password. I already had a php|arch account and it shows up at the top of that page when I log in.
    mitechie.com
    "Techies just think a little differently
    ...at least that is what they keep telling me."

  9. #34
    SitePoint Member
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    Where at the top of the page? I am logged in and can view my account etc.. but i do not see a password anywhere.

  10. #35
    eschew sesquipedalians silver trophy sweatje's Avatar
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    You might try posting here if you are still encountering problems. Marco monitors this forum and is usually pretty good about following up on problems.

    HTH
    Jason Sweat ZCE - jsweat_php@yahoo.com
    Book: PHP Patterns
    Good Stuff: SimpleTest PHPUnit FireFox ADOdb YUI
    Detestable (adjective): software that isn't testable.

  11. #36
    Can we go to a 48 hour day?
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    I guess I'm confused...what password do you need? If you can log into php|arch you can download the pdf. What is it you're looking for?
    mitechie.com
    "Techies just think a little differently
    ...at least that is what they keep telling me."

  12. #37
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    WTH something went wrong, now when i login i dont see my order # good thing i printed the copy for my recipt I will have to contact php|a and get this straightened out ugh

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuce868
    I guess I'm confused...what password do you need? If you can log into php|arch you can download the pdf. What is it you're looking for?
    When I open the PDF it asks me for a password

  14. #39
    SitePoint Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweatje
    You might try posting here if you are still encountering problems. Marco monitors this forum and is usually pretty good about following up on problems.

    HTH
    Thanks i will try that

  15. #40
    Can we go to a 48 hour day?
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    Quote Originally Posted by codebowl
    When I open the PDF it asks me for a password
    It's the same as your php|arch password.
    mitechie.com
    "Techies just think a little differently
    ...at least that is what they keep telling me."

  16. #41
    SitePoint Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuce868
    It's the same as your php|arch password.
    That's what i thought at first but it wouldnt work, after closing my browser and noticing that it is no longer in my purchase history i may have had a typo in my email address and it created a new account, but i would have used the same password so i am not sure what's going on. I have posted in the forum as suggested and will be calling them.

    Thanks for the help suggestions

  17. #42
    get into it! bigduke's Avatar
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    Gosh man if they had even slightly considered the Eastern Economy and hadn't priced the book so high (as per our stds) I would have bought it already.
    I so want that book ... is anyone listening?

  18. #43
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    Got my copy of the book yesterday and have already given it a read over, skimming a few places, but not too many.

    First the bad,
    I found the typsetting and spell checking to be a littlle substandard. The paper weight also feels extremely light/flimsy. Of course the book is cheaper than most computer book, by a significant fraction, so I think its still a good value, but I'd prefer to pay more for better paper and proofing.

    A few of the examples aren't motivated very well and could leave some people wondering why we're using a given pattern for a given task. -- The patterns's themselves are exmplained well. I think the cache example in the Strategy chapter and the web example in the MockObjects chapter were epecially lacking in motivation/explanation of how/why the production code worked or was needed.

    The good:
    The explantion of the patterns is good; the attention to testing and differences between php4 and php5 is excellent. There's a huge number of little things I found that made me go "ooh that is a cool/good way" and I'll need to read through again to make a note of them.... There were I need to adapt.

    I think it will be an amazing resource for people seeking to transition from "merely" using PHP to "programming" PHP -- understanding patterns, testing, and "real OOP". Too many OOP tutorials/books for PHP focus on the encapsulation aspect alone -- leaving people able to make halfway decent domain classes, that often approach god-hood, but not understanding all smaller, supporting framework classes. This book should help to fill that void.

    It should also help people like myself who think they intellectually underrsstand a lot of patterns, but can't alwasy make them work in good ways in PHP. As someone who's been fighting with changing to TDD, its another useful resource that's "fluent' in the same test tool I use.

  19. #44
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    is anyone listening?
    I'll buy you two, in case one isn't enough... Are you happy now?

  20. #45
    SitePoint Evangelist jplush76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Livingston
    I'll buy you two, in case one isn't enough... Are you happy now?
    didn't you say you couldn't spend any money for your own copy of the book?
    My-Bic - Easiest AJAX/PHP Framework Around
    Now Debug PHP scripts with Firebug!

  21. #46
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    I'll buy you two, in case one isn't enough...
    Well, if it's not apparently obvious, this is my humour again, and wasn't really being serious? I was making a joke of the matter in other words

  22. #47
    SitePoint Wizard dreamscape's Avatar
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    How long did it take you all to get your print copies? I ordered mine on the 14th and am still waiting on it... and since PHP Arch provides absolutely no shipping information or status history or update information (they could use a lesson or two on well formed eCommerce systems and Customer Relationships), I have absolutely no idea where it is at in route or what date it shipped on. All I know is that it was "shipped" at some point in the last 14 days, which tells me nothing really.

    So then, I am left to ask, how long did it take for you all?

  23. #48
    SitePoint Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamscape
    How long did it take you all to get your print copies? I ordered mine on the 14th and am still waiting on it... and since PHP Arch provides absolutely no shipping information or status history or update information (they could use a lesson or two on well formed eCommerce systems), I have absolutely no idea where it is at in route or what date it shipped on. All I know is that it was "shipped" at some point in the last 14 days.

    So then, I am left to ask, how long did it take for you all?
    Yes, I was extremely annoyed by their customer service/shipping issues.

    I ordered mine on July 31st. It shipped on August 19th. And arrived on Aug 26th. If you have any sort of spam blocking, you might want to check for a mailing from an @canpar.com for the actual shipping notice. Its gets sorted to spam very easily it seems. The shipping notice will give a horrible delivery estimate (same day service....), I'd expect about a week given my experience. The email from canpar provides a link for package tracking, but they seem to sit on things for a while (three days from "receiving package" to it leaving their facility. 3 days from it arriving locally to it being delivered)

    PHP|A should at least indicate on the order confirmation that
    1) They have charged the cc, but haven't shipped the item
    2) You should check for a shipping notice sent from "@canpar.com"

    And they should find some way to fix their email handling problems... or not provide an email address for questions on their order confirmations.

  24. #49
    SitePoint Guru 33degrees's Avatar
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    Anyone get it via Amazon? I'm thinking of ordering it there but they claim a 3 to 4 week wait...

  25. #50
    eschew sesquipedalians silver trophy sweatje's Avatar
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    Hi All,

    Thanks for buying the book, I hope you find it useful.

    It may not have specifically been mentioned here; the book arrived on time, but was messed up by the printer (several pages which were fine in the proof copy arrived with all squares instead of text). It had to be re-printed and added 2-3 weeks to the schedule. At least if you orded it from php|a directly, then you had the PDF version to read in the meanwhile. Please at least take this into consideration as you formulate your opinions, and please do let everyone know what you think once you read it

    Regards,
    Jason


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