Is abortion murder?

[Elledan]

Originally posted by TWTCommish


Are you a moron, Elledan? Haven't you ever known a handicapped person who was glad to be alive in spite of their ailment?

Now that you're asking, no. I know a couple of adults and teens who are in some way handicapped, and they absolutely don't like it. The families of those teens are suffering under the handicap of their child and I've heard from many of them that they would do anything to have a normal, healthy body. Is that asked too much?

Of course I don't enjoy it -- but it's better than never being born. Like I said: why not stupid people, too? Plenty of handicapped people get more out of life than some unintelligent people.

Ah, so being born is everything what counts, eh? How about children who have such a low IQ that they're hardly more than plants? I know one guy who is like that. The only thing he can do by himself is drooling. His parents are obviously suffering. I don't wish anyone to get such a child because it's more a punishment than anything else.

In short: your theory is complete crap. Refining who reproduces and why is a sick idea that will never, ever, ever work. Ever.

Thanks to people like you the Human race is doomed. Is a future without handicapped people a bad future? By your standards it is.

Holy crap, you really don't get it, do you? Ya know, statistically, you should have been able to GUESS correctly by now...but no, you even defy the odds.

We are similar to apes...as a result, we've created a group of creatures we call primates. We figure that, seeing as how we move and act in similar ways (and have a similar makeup), we should categorize ourselves with them. This is a decision man has made based on the similiarities we have to apes. However, it does not mean they are truly in the same class as we are...it does not mean they should have the same rights. As you'll full well notice, there is a enough difference between apes and humans that we have complete control of all and they have control of virtually nothing.

Humans and apes both have the same ancestor, 'nuff said.

Don't we share more common DNA with pigs than we do with apes anyway? Oh, and I'll tell you what is really pathetic: a teenager who's convinced that 99% of the people that have come before him are wrong, that he's got it all figured out and has it right, and who actually references Star Trek in a philosophical discussion.

Ah, so the opinion of the majority is worth more than that of one single individual? I bet Galileo would have agreed with you. Or maybe not...

You never did answer: are you one of those types who thinks that Star Trek is a reasonable model for our society?

FYI the political and economical system used in Star Trek is Socialism, with parts from Communism. I do agree with many parts of those systems, so my answer is positive.

It's an effective system, much more effective than democracy and capitalism can ever become.

[TWTCommish]

Now that you're asking, no. I know a couple of adults and teens who are in some way handicapped, and they absolutely don't like it. The families of those teens are suffering under the handicap of their child and I've heard from many of them that they would do anything to have a normal, healthy body. Is that asked too much?

Ah, so being born is everything what counts, eh? How about children who have such a low IQ that they're hardly more than plants? I know one guy who is like that. The only thing he can do by himself is drooling. His parents are obviously suffering. I don't wish anyone to get such a child because it's more a punishment than anything else.

I don't wish it either...it's a BAD thing, but it is better than death. Who, exactly, are you, to try to say "This person is likely to be blind, so it's okay to end their life"? Please do not tell me you actually believe that people with disabilities tend to hate their life and pray for death.

Thanks to people like you the Human race is doomed. Is a future without handicapped people a bad future? By your standards it is.

Don't play dumb. Of course it's a bad thing, but it's not as bad as putting people to death for being born blind, or deaf, or without the use of their legs. A future without handicapped people is a good thing, but that doesn't mean we should do absolutely anything to get to that point.

Humans and apes both have the same ancestor, 'nuff said.

Oh yes, how could I forget? My mistake.

Ah, so the opinion of the majority is worth more than that of one single individual? I bet Galileo would have agreed with you. Or maybe not...

I've just realized something: your defensive mechanism in virtually every argument on these forums is to take someone says and jump to an outrageous conclusion based on it before disagreeing.

The opinion of the majority is to be considered: absolutely. If you're the only person (out of many billions of people) to believe a certain thing, then you'd be a fool not to analyze this belief carefully, and put it under much scrutiny. I have odd views on the value of college, and as a result, I've done a lot of my homework concerning that subject...more than I do on gravity, seeing as how it is so widely accepted.

It's an educated choice: pick and choose things and how much time to put into studying them. I'm sorry, but in the end, you're disagreeing with things pioneered by many great/historical men, that will be remembered long after you and I are dead. Speaking of Galileo, I wonder if he'd agree with your faulty "we should be like the Borg"-style theory...or your views on communism.

FYI the political and economical system used in Star Trek is Socialism, with parts from Communism. I do agree with many parts of those systems, so my answer is positive.

It's an effective system, much more effective than democracy and capitalism can ever become.

For an effective system, it sure does fail a lot, huh? Communism requires that most of the poeple involved think mostly of others, and work for the benefit of all, rather than themselves. Capitalism allows people to help others AND benefit themselves. Capitalism recognizes that people are motivated most when it is in their own interest to be so.

Communism relies on naive, wishful thinking. Here's a metaphor for you: I say "Let's build buildings in the sky! It'll save space on the ground." Well, this would be a good idea, if humans could fly...but we can't. Communism is like this: it's only a good idea if the very nature of what we humans are were changed...and even then it might have problems.

Oh, and we don't live in a Democracy. If we did, it would be a bad thing. Not as bad as Communism, but bad nonetheless.

I have to say, I find it rather hypocritical that you express concern for people who are handicapped, but your solution is to kill them before they've had a chance to be born. Why do you feel you'd be doing them a favor?

Oh, and don't try to play on any suffering they might have, because you obviously don't care about that. You are concerned with the survivial of this race...although, honestly, I don't see why you should be. After all, aren't you going to die long before you can see any progress? If all of your emotions are just chemicial reactions, and there is no God, then why should you concern yourself with things that will happen after your death? Shouldn't you be focusing on raw survival and self-benefit?

[TWTCommish]

I'm off on a short trip -- I shall return on Friday. By then I expect several insulting remarks: don't let me down, Elledan.

[exbabylon]

Abortion is flat out wrong. And yes, we our government, and us as a people, have the right to decide what is wrong and what isn't. I will be blunt, I believe Jesus, also God, has a special plan for every person, and it's not our place to decide that this child doesn't deserve to take part in that.

If it's not up to us as a people to decide abortion is wrong, it's also not up to us to decide if it's legal to kill, steal, commit adultry, etc. Why is it not the father's choice who has to pay child support on that kid if it's born to have it aborted? After all, it IS a part of both parents. Or why not just let the kid be born, and then decide after a few months if the kid is smart enough, if not, then dispose of it? For this act you'll have hordes of people screaming the death penalty, and there's a chance that if you don't get that you'll be in jail for life. That child is still incapable of making it's own decisions, and some will say even right and wrong are still out of it's grasp. How much different is it when a mother has an abortion?

If you believe abortion is right, I suggest you read the book "The Prophet", it is an excellent piece of work, and will bring things into perspective IF you have a semi open mind. Our goverment makes laws in order to keep the country running smoothly, properly, and to keep things as fair as possible to everyone involved. I am proud to be a part of our American Government, and I will do anything to protect it's constitution, people, and lands, however, there are some things I disagree on, and one of those things is abortion.

[Elledan]

Originally posted by TWTCommish

I don't wish it either...it's a BAD thing, but it is better than death. Who, exactly, are you, to try to say "This person is likely to be blind, so it's okay to end their life"? Please do not tell me you actually believe that people with disabilities tend to hate their life and pray for death.



Don't play dumb. Of course it's a bad thing, but it's not as bad as putting people to death for being born blind, or deaf, or without the use of their legs. A future without handicapped people is a good thing, but that doesn't mean we should do absolutely anything to get to that point.

I didn't say that they should be put to death. Their parents would simply never produce this child because they would never fertilize an egg. No abortion needed.

I've just realized something: your defensive mechanism in virtually every argument on these forums is to take someone says and jump to an outrageous conclusion based on it before disagreeing.

The opinion of the majority is to be considered: absolutely. If you're the only person (out of many billions of people) to believe a certain thing, then you'd be a fool not to analyze this belief carefully, and put it under much scrutiny. I have odd views on the value of college, and as a result, I've done a lot of my homework concerning that subject...more than I do on gravity, seeing as how it is so widely accepted.

It's an educated choice: pick and choose things and how much time to put into studying them. I'm sorry, but in the end, you're disagreeing with things pioneered by many great/historical men, that will be remembered long after you and I are dead. Speaking of Galileo, I wonder if he'd agree with your faulty "we should be like the Borg"-style theory...or your views on communism.

I've never said that Humans should become like the Borg. Mindless drones aren't flexible. I realize the usefulness of individuality, but individuality must be combined with discipline before it becomes really useful.

Just look at the army and navy. Soldiers are allowed to think for themselves when in battle, but they'll always have to obey orders from their superiors. Discipline.

For an effective system, it sure does fail a lot, huh? Communism requires that most of the poeple involved think mostly of others, and work for the benefit of all, rather than themselves. Capitalism allows people to help others AND benefit themselves. Capitalism recognizes that people are motivated most when it is in their own interest to be so.

Communism relies on naive, wishful thinking. Here's a metaphor for you: I say "Let's build buildings in the sky! It'll save space on the ground." Well, this would be a good idea, if humans could fly...but we can't. Communism is like this: it's only a good idea if the very nature of what we humans are were changed...and even then it might have problems.

Oh, and we don't live in a Democracy. If we did, it would be a bad thing. Not as bad as Communism, but bad nonetheless.

Here you're making assumptions again.Not once did I mention a system totally based on Communism. First of all, I mentioned Socialism. Second of all, I said that I agree with parts of it, thus not all of it.

I know what the weaknesses of Socialism (and Communism) are. No need for you to point them out again (although you're not right about it failing). The only reason why Communism has failed to be properly implemented again and ended up as a system to terrorize and control the people in the country was (and is) because Humans are too imperfect for such a system. No discipline and greed.

Anyway, here in the Netherlands we use a system based on Socialism and Democracy, plus some parts of other systems. It works quite good, much better than the 'system' the US uses. In no other Western country are the differences between the rich and poor so big.

I have to say, I find it rather hypocritical that you express concern for people who are handicapped, but your solution is to kill them before they've had a chance to be born. Why do you feel you'd be doing them a favor?

Mercy. Something you have never heard of, I guess. Besides, like I said in the beginning of this post, such abortions will be avoided if possible, using the system I talked earlier about. Before receiving permission to get a child, the parents will have to undergo a test of their DNA (in sperm and egg cells) to scan it for defects.

Oh, and don't try to play on any suffering they might have, because you obviously don't care about that. You are concerned with the survivial of this race...although, honestly, I don't see why you should be. After all, aren't you going to die long before you can see any progress? If all of your emotions are just chemicial reactions, and there is no God, then why should you concern yourself with things that will happen after your death? Shouldn't you be focusing on raw survival and self-benefit?

I care a lot about other people, especially if they're suffering. It's one of my goals to create (cybernetic) devices and treatments to help people regain lost functions, like vision, deafness and the ability to use their lower body again after they've become paralyzed.

Some time ago I saw this documentary on Discovery Channel about attempts to give paralyzed people the control back over bodyparts.
In it was this 11-year old girl who had been paralyzed for years after an accident. The whole time while I was watching this documentary and afterwards, even today, I can't help feeling that I want to help this girl. The unjustice of her losing the control over her whole lowerbody (from the neck down) made me realize one thing: I want to help her and everyone like her.

And FYI, I don't plan on dying at all. If I'm correct, it's possible to live on forever, until the universe ceases to exist or becomes devoid of all energy.
How, you might ask. Simple: science.

Right now I"m studying the working of the brain and the possibility of true AI. This project could lead to the development of many new technologies which might enable us to make a backup of someone's brain, and thus that person's mind, to later restore this backup again in an android. A totally artificial being thus which can in theory live forever.

I'm not the person you think I am.

[RKuhle]

Originally posted by Aes

Wow. That was brief. =)
I'm not going to tell you whether I think it is okay or not (yet) ... instead I'm going to relate some information about it. With all of the anti-abortion sentiment going around (i.e. Pro-Life) lately, people seem to be losing sight of another important aspect. This kind of stemmed (for me at least) from the whole Pro-Choice vs. Pro-Life conflict in the elections here in the states. But, forcing life isn't exactly the same as the name states. If women didn't get abortions, many of them would die. It's as simple as that. Sometimes the abortions are performed to save the woman. I mean, if abortion was outlawed, we'd be saving lives on one hand, but killing in another. Many women would die if they couldn't have an abortion due to complications. So, this is really a two sided topic I think....

Don't worry, I'm unsubscribing from this thread after this post. Otherwise I'll never get anything done today.

Colin, this is extremely off. One percent of abortions take place because of medical necessity. Another one percent take place because of rape or incest. These stats are from the last I checked, they could be different now.

"If women didn't get abortions, many of them would die." Not quite.

[RKuhle]

Originally posted by Elledan
Now that you're asking, no. I know a couple of adults and teens who are in some way handicapped, and they absolutely don't like it. The families of those teens are suffering under the handicap of their child and I've heard from many of them that they would do anything to have a normal, healthy body. Is that asked too much?
Ah, so being born is everything what counts, eh? How about children who have such a low IQ that they're hardly more than plants? I know one guy who is like that. The only thing he can do by himself is drooling. His parents are obviously suffering. I don't wish anyone to get such a child because it's more a punishment than anything else.

Elledan, you should come meet me. I've been in a wheelchair since I was 9 and I love every day of my life. I, for one, am glad my mom didn't abort her baby because of a "deficiency".

[RKuhle]

Originally posted by mjames
I believe it should be the women's choice, it is her baby. But, I do not think abortion is moral just because the mother doesn't want the baby or something. However, I feel that if the baby is known to have life-threatening problems or the mother will die if the baby is born, I think abortion is okay under those circumstances.

Ouch, someone should have knocked me off 19 years ago. Have you ever heard of cures? Treatments? Rehabilitation?

[RKuhle]

Originally posted by moospot
I believe in pro-choice and I feel that a person shouldn't be forced into adopting a system of rules that go against their beliefs because another group thinks its right. If we do outlaw abortion, they are still going to happen anyway. Why not keep it safe and in the hands of professionals?

If we do outlaw rape, murder, burglary, and domestic abuse, they are still going to happen anyway. So why outlaw them?

[RKuhle]

Originally posted by LadyLily
Personally, at times I never wanted to be alive, be born, all that stuff. I would rather be dead than go through a lot of emotional trauma. Woudl you rather be born or commit suicide later on in life? Would you want to put your mother through taht pain too? Your family? Woudl you rather be out in the streets, be put through foster care? My parents worked with those kind of kids, and they don't look too good. No personality, no self-esteem. Trust me, you never wanted to be them.

And what if the family was prone to a very deadly disease? What if the parents didn't want to suffer through their kid doing drugs or heavy alcohol? Maybe they dont' want to go through it after all. Maybe they amde a mistake. ARe we goign to stop their freedom right there and then? Take away that part of their lives from them? The fetus doens't konw a thing, isn't even feeling or concious. Give me a thought from a fetus to prove me otherwise.

"Some people are better off being dead."

[Elledan]

Originally posted by RKuhle

Elledan, you should come meet me. I've been in a wheelchair since I was 9 and I love every day of my life. I, for one, am glad my mom didn't abort her baby because of a "deficiency".

I'm glad you enjoy your life. Many others who live with a handicap hate every day of their live, because they're dependant on others, they can't do anything themselves, they can't join their friends when they're playing football or anything etc.

But if you're honest, would you choose to continue living like this, or would you want to regain full control over your body again?

Just curious: what kind of affection forced you to use a wheelchair? An affection of the legmuscles? The nerves between your legs and spine?

If you don't want to give an answer, I respect that.

[RKuhle]

Originally posted by Elledan
I'm glad you enjoy your life. Many others who live with a handicap hate every day of their live, because they're dependant on others, they can't do anything themselves, they can't join their friends when they're playing football or anything etc.

That really bothers me. Because some people have a difficult time coping with their disability it makes an abortion "ok" based on any genetical problems they may have? I have met many people with disabilities, and you're right, some of them have an extremely difficult time living with it. It took me seven years to finally realize that being in a wheelchair did not mean my life was over. It didn't mean I couldn't have fun. And it didn't mean that I couldn't make other people smile. Of course I'm a burden at times, but so what. My other qualities make up for it. That's life, you learn to make the best of what you have been given.

Maybe I can't play football, but let's look at what I can do. I can afford my very own apartment fresh out of high school. My junior year I made as much money as my dad running my business. I can go to concerts (love doing that). And I can make my friends laugh constantly. And most importantly, I can contribute to SPF in a positive way by sharing my experiences.

While we're talking about people who hate their lives, let's look at everyone who isn't handicapped. You wouldn't believe the number of people I know who hate their life because of small, insignificant things. They have a weight problem, they have braces, they don't have a boy/girl friend, etc. Should we abort them too?

But if you're honest, would you choose to continue living like this, or would you want to regain full control over your body again?

I'll be honest, of course I would take full control back. I don't have to think twice about that. But I don't dwell on it either. I don't waste my time feeling sorry for myself because I can't walk. I focus on the positive things in life, not the negative.

On another note, if a genie suddenly popped up in front of me and gave me two options: wake up tomorrow and be able to walk, or go back 5 years and be able to walk. I would take the first option without even thinking about the second. I've learned way too many things these past 5 years, I wouldn't give them up for anything, not even football.

Just curious: what kind of affection forced you to use a wheelchair? An affection of the legmuscles? The nerves between your legs and spine?

I have Muscular Dystrophy. It affects my whole body, not just my legs. Right now I'm using a voice-activated computer to type this out to you. Although it sounds like a disease of the muscles, it actually affects the myelin of your nerves.

Please note, I'm not asking you to feel sorry for me. In fact, I hate that. I'm not asking for more respect either. But I am asking that you open your mind to what people really can do.

It completely amazes me how society thinks and treats people with disabilities as helpless and not worthwhile. You wouldn't believe how many times I've been told "you can't do that". Guess what? I did it.

I've been told by doctors on 3 different occasions that I will die (within the next few days). That was 4 years ago. I've been told I can't move cross-country to a better climate to attend college, and to actually take residence there. Next Wednesday I'm moving to San Diego, California. Right now I'm in Dubuque, Iowa. Guess what? I'm doing that too.

My point is, get it out of your head that persons with disabilities, "cripples", "retards", and "gimps" can't live life to their fullest. Over the years I've been paired up with "retards" quite often (people assume I also have learning disabilities simply because I'm physically disabled). You know what I've learned? These "retards" enjoy their life so much more than the "normal" people. They must know something we don't.

Think about that next time...

[Polymath]

Well, I respect that a great deal, RKuhle.
Your post just reminded me of a time when I was in Florida with my family, aged 15 (16 years ago). On the first day I overdid the suntanning and got killer sunburn - really painful to move and my nose was practically melted off. Anyway, we went to Disneyworld - or is it land? - to the Epcot centre. Because there was a fair bit of walking involved my gran got a wheelchair, although she didn't really need it - and at one point she ditched it for an hour. I was in agony from the sunburn, it was 90 degrees, I had on long white pants, long sleeve white shirt, baseball cap, basically I was not taking any chances with the sun and I looked pretty odd all buttoned up in that heat.
Because I just wanted to mope about and not move at all, I got into the wheelchair and all of a sudden I was in the twilight zone - I swear to God, it was like I had ceased to exist. People did not make eye contact for more than a millisecond - or they looked over, around or to the side of me. It was extremely weird, the impact of it was just extraordinary and I don't mind admitting it rather freaked me out, but I stayed in the wheelchair for about 45 minutes experience of just being plain blanked out of the picture.
The point I think I'm clumsily making is, that sudden shift of perspective was just from me sitting in a wheelchair for a while, without any other complications. So anyone who can go through everything you have and maintain such a positive mental attitude deserves utmost respect.
Also, for what it's worth, I make a particular point now of never blanking out people in wheelchairs, or breaking eye contact after a millisecond - I just hope it doesn't look like I'm staring.

[RKuhle]

Originally posted by Polymath

Because I just wanted to mope about and not move at all, I got into the wheelchair and all of a sudden I was in the twilight zone - I swear to God, it was like I had ceased to exist. People did not make eye contact for more than a millisecond - or they looked over, around or to the side of me. It was extremely weird, the impact of it was just extraordinary and I don't mind admitting it rather freaked me out, but I stayed in the wheelchair for about 45 minutes experience of just being plain blanked out of the picture.

Pretty weird, huh? People always do that to me. It's funny, I never knew being in a wheelchair means that you're deaf. Everyone talks real loud and slow to me. Furthermore, most people don't talk directly to me, even if they're referring to me. They talk to the person I'm with. It annoys the hell out of my friends and my dad simply gets pissed. It always makes me laugh how ignorant people can truly be. Don't worry about staring at me, I'll just assume you're admiring my good looks.

Oh, in Florida it's Disney World. California is Disney Land. Haven't been to Disney Land yet, but I love Orlando and Disney World.

Next time you might wear some sunblock.

[Elledan]

Originally posted by RKuhle
While we're talking about people who hate their lives, let's look at everyone who isn't handicapped. You wouldn't believe the number of people I know who hate their life because of small, insignificant things. They have a weight problem, they have braces, they don't have a boy/girl friend, etc. Should we abort them too?

I never talked about abortion. I'm sorry if you got that impression. My idea is to keep people with serious genetical defects from reproducing, so that their children will not get it. Those people don't even have to be affected by this disease, just carrying it in their genes is already enough.

This is the most effective way to get rid of some of the worst genetical diseases. It'll only take a couple of generations, provided that it's carried out properly (which is probably the main concern).

I'll be honest, of course I would take full control back. I don't have to think twice about that. But I don't dwell on it either. I don't waste my time feeling sorry for myself because I can't walk. I focus on the positive things in life, not the negative.

On another note, if a genie suddenly popped up in front of me and gave me two options: wake up tomorrow and be able to walk, or go back 5 years and be able to walk. I would take the first option without even thinking about the second. I've learned way too many things these past 5 years, I wouldn't give them up for anything, not even football

You sound indeed like you've learned many things in those 5 years. I can totally find myself in your attitude.

I have Muscular Dystrophy. It affects my whole body, not just my legs. Right now I'm using a voice-activated computer to type this out to you. Although it sounds like a disease of the muscles, it actually affects the myelin of your nerves.

I've heard about this disease. It's really one of the worst things which can happen to anyone. You must be a really optimistic person to live with it.

My point is, get it out of your head that persons with disabilities, "cripples", "retards", and "gimps" can't live life to their fullest. Over the years I've been paired up with "retards" quite often (people assume I also have learning disabilities simply because I'm physically disabled). You know what I've learned? These "retards" enjoy their life so much more than the "normal" people. They must know something we don't. [/B]

I never stated that handicapped people can not live their life to their fullest. On the contrary, they enjoy life even more because to them it's special, and not something ordinary.

Anyway, if I hear about a disease which affects the body, I see it as a problem which must be solved. If I see someone who is affected by the disease, I see someone who has lost part of his/her abilities. I would like to offer those people a solution to their 'problem'.
Problem with a disease like you have is that it requires full knowledge of where and how those myelin sheaths are formed, which part of the DNA is responsible for it and which genes are responsible for the breakdown of those sheaths. Once we know that, we can use modified viruses (or nanobots, once the technology has advanced far enough), to replace the faulty DNA with properly functioning DNA.

This will require a couple of treatments over a couple of weeks, maybe months. After that you'll be fully cured.

IMHO such a treatment wouldn't even be so difficult to develop.

[RKuhle]

Originally posted by Elledan
Problem with a disease like you have is that it requires full knowledge of where and how those myelin sheaths are formed, which part of the DNA is responsible for it and which genes are responsible for the breakdown of those sheaths. Once we know that, we can use modified viruses (or nanobots, once the technology has advanced far enough), to replace the faulty DNA with properly functioning DNA.

This will require a couple of treatments over a couple of weeks, maybe months. After that you'll be fully cured.

IMHO such a treatment wouldn't even be so difficult to develop.

They've been testing treatments for many years and have had great success with animals. They started to test on humans, with success, but the FDA stepped in. In my opinion, the FDA has no grounds to step in on a voluntary experiment, such as this. I understand their concerns, but the only way to find out the true side-effects is to do testing.

[85eagle]

Abortion is a touchy subject.. I would say that it is mostly the mother's choice, but I also belive that there are other options to abortion, like giving up the baby for adoption. I don't know anyone who has done abortion, but I would regret giving up a baby that I never knew or grew to love..

[Elledan]

Originally posted by RKuhle

They've been testing treatments for many years and have had great success with animals. They started to test on humans, with success, but the FDA stepped in. In my opinion, the FDA has no grounds to step in on a voluntary experiment, such as this. I understand their concerns, but the only way to find out the true side-effects is to do testing.

I agree. If people want to volunteer for such an experimental treatment, it should be possible.

BTW are those treatments available in other countries than the US? In that case it might be possible to get such a treatment elsewhere.

[RKuhle]

Originally posted by Elledan
I agree. If people want to volunteer for such an experimental treatment, it should be possible.

BTW are those treatments available in other countries than the US? In that case it might be possible to get such a treatment elsewhere.

Hmm, I don't know. Would be worth checking into. But I doubt it, most of this has been done through the MDA, to my knowledge.

The only problem is the "transportation" of the new DNA to the faulty DNA. The body tends to reject things like this, you would need to trick the body into ignoring it.

[Elledan]

Originally posted by RKuhle
The only problem is the "transportation" of the new DNA to the faulty DNA. The body tends to reject things like this, you would need to trick the body into ignoring it.

Virii don't do anything else but inserting DNA (or RNA) into the cells of their hosts.

Modify a virus by replacing its DNA/RNA with the DNA you want to insert and inject the virii into the patient. Repeat this a few times and it should work.

The body won't reject this new DNA because DNA of every species is build up out of exactly the same components. Replacing DNA, however, could form a problem, but as long as the right proteins/enzyms are produced in the cells, many diseases could already be cured.

This make me think: if together with the DNA you insert some enzyms into a cell, those enzyms would cut the faulty piece of DNA out of the genes and (other enzyms could) insert the replacing DNA.

Such enzyms are already being used by the cell to 'cut' strings of RNA in the right length. If we would understand the mechanism by which those enzyms work, we can use it for the development of a treatment.

[Hellbent]

Originally posted by TWTCommish
Are you paying ANY attention? I'm telling you, quite plainly, why the "it's a human when it can survive on it's own" argument is bull: because whether or not it's a human should not be determined my medical science. A baby is no less human for being conceived in 2001 than if it happened to have been conceived in 1950.

Oh your "telling" me. Well holy hell I guess that makes it fact. I suppose there is no point in arguing if TWT says it it must be fact. If you will read my previous statement I never claimed it was not human. I said it does not matter. The fact is it cannot survive on it's own. If the host refuses to carry it (human or not) it will die. And I support the right of the host to terminate the parasite at will.

[TWTCommish]

I'm "telling" you so that you'll "understand." I didn't say it made it fact, so don't put words in my mouth in an attempt to make yourself look better. Of course it matters if it's a human...that is, unless you support the legalization of murder. Although I have to say, that wouldn't surprise me.

[Hellbent]

That is exactly my point. How can you murder something that does NOT have it's own life?. It seems to me that it is not murder until the child can live on it's own.

[TWTCommish]

Ugh. See, this is what I'm talking about: I already asked you about this: how do you determine when it can live on it's own? Is that with or without the aid of medical equipment?

[Hellbent]

So you want me to define it? Ok no problem. If the child cannot live without medical equipment it can be terminated in my oppinion. if it can live and mature into a normal child with the aid of medical equipment then so be it instead of terminating the child simply remove it and render it medical aid. However in either scenario if the mother does not desire to carry the child she should not be forced to do so.