| SitePoint Sponsor |
I don't see the logic there: a baby is not a baby 200 years ago, but it might be at the same point today, because we've got the benefit of plastic? The technology outside of things shouldn't determine whether or not it's a human. That doesn't seem right at all.
First of all, what are you tryign to say? What you just said is confusing me. It seems obvious taht you are talking about technology and how it may affect this topic.
Second of all, technology can and will affect this. The US is already having to decided if Human Cloning is okay. That ties in with abortion. It's stupid to explain why it is.
Lastly,what if the mother is going to be a horirbel mother? If she knows that, and doens't waht the child, why can't she get rid of it? I mean, what if a prostetute got pregnant, and sleeping with men/women is the only way to get money. Would you want a mother that did that?
I'll take your points and questions one by one.
1 - What I'm saying about technology is that when a child is a human should not, logically, have anything to do with the technology around us today. I guess a baby 6 months old (in the womb) might be considered a human today, because it can sometimes survive on it's own, but 200 years ago, the same baby would not be a human, because their technology would not help it live on it's own outside the mother?
2 - I don't care if the mother is going to be horrible -- if she can't raise the child properly, she should give it up for adoption. I don't like the reasoning that says "It MIGHT have a bad life, so we'd better kill it, just to be safe."
3 - You cannot start allowing abortions simply because the child might have problems in their life. Where's the line drawn there, eh? We allow abortions for unintelligent people? How about people prone to weight gain, or a family that has a few alcoholics throughout it's tree? What about short people?
Personally, at times I never wanted to be alive, be born, all that stuff. I would rather be dead than go through a lot of emotional trauma. Woudl you rather be born or commit suicide later on in life? Would you want to put your mother through taht pain too? Your family? Woudl you rather be out in the streets, be put through foster care? My parents worked with those kind of kids, and they don't look too good. No personality, no self-esteem. Trust me, you never wanted to be them.
And what if the family was prone to a very deadly disease? What if the parents didn't want to suffer through their kid doing drugs or heavy alcohol? Maybe they dont' want to go through it after all. Maybe they amde a mistake. ARe we goign to stop their freedom right there and then? Take away that part of their lives from them? The fetus doens't konw a thing, isn't even feeling or concious. Give me a thought from a fetus to prove me otherwise.
Ohhh no. The burden of proof lies with you: you're the one claiming it's not a human. Tell me why it's not a human. I've detailed, maybe a dozen times, why we should not kill a child in the womb. I'm tired of repeating it. Check back in this thread. If you're 100% completely head over heels strapped for time, let me know, and I'll try to summarize things.
I couldn't help but notice that, overall, you didn't address my questions in your last post. What about all those minor defects I mentioned? Wealthy people in good social standing DO have kids who are messed up, and poor families have children who grow up to make the world a better place.
It sure would be interesting to see a list of famous people who were born into horrible circumstances. As I've mentioned many times on these forums, I was born into a very poor family...at least then. I'm proud of this. Hopefully I'll be able to lead a worthwhile life, but, according to you, I guess it might have made sense to abort me, eh?
Maybe it's time you come with new arguments...Originally posted by TWTCommish
I've detailed, maybe a dozen times, why we should not kill a child in the womb. I'm tired of repeating it.
...and stop resorting to the "you didn't answer my questions" trickI couldn't help but notice that, overall, you didn't address my questions in your last post.
I don't need new arguments -- absolutely NO ONE has given me any decent responses to the ones I have now. No one has told me when life begins, and managed to back it up with any common sense.
Oh, and go read the posts in question, and you'll see there is no trick involved. I asked where the line was drawn, and got no reply. It's funny: I rant on and on about how people don't really answer any of my questions here, and yet, I'm the one who's trying to trick everyone. I guess you don't bother to see that I rant about it because it actually happens.
You're basing your opinions on religion and asking us to use common sense? No offense, I have nothing against religion, but you're being a tiny bit hypocritical.
Sorry, I don't know what you're referring to. Fill me in.
What do you mean?
I'm asking what this means, and what prompted you to say it:
Were you referring to someone else, or something that happened earlier?You're basing your opinions on religion and asking us to use common sense? No offense, I have nothing against religion, but you're being a tiny bit hypocritical.
I was referring to you...
That's what I thought...which is why I asked you what you were referring to. How have I been hypocritical? How have I based my views on religion (and no, distant, desperate connections don't count)? That's what I'm asking.
Let me start with this - Why do you think killing is wrong - not abortion, killing?
Well, it depends. I do believe in God, and I believe that He has told us that it is wrong. However, even if I were not a religious person, I would still dissaprove of it. If not for my belief in God, I'd probably believe that people should be left alone so as to make their own choices, as long as they are not harming other people intentionally. Abortion, however, would not be "covered" by this, because I'd still maintain the belief that the child is it's own person.
I have to go to bed now, so I'll answer any further questions tomorrow. However, even if I were to answer your question with a flat out "Because God said so", it wouldn't really mean much. A lot of pro lifers do not believe in God, and many atheists think killing is wrong -- I imagine you're one of them.
I'm asking you why, not whether or not you think it's wrong - obviously you do (as I do).
I don't know how I didn't answer the questions you asked me, I may have answered them in a different fashion, not directly.
Yeah, probably all the points pro-life and pro-choice have already been said, I can't think of another good one. It's just your opinion, and probably no one is goign to change that. But sometimes you have to set aside your opinion. Even if I was pro-life, I would want to make abortion legal for some surcomstances, or even all the way. Just becuase of all the illegal abortions that would be performed. You can't stop that from happening, so why try and kill to people at once?
The opinion is obviously based on when life starts. It varies from person to person, so there will never be a true, set rule on this issue.
Well, I'm all for abortion, and what I'm about to say may or may not be in context with what's going on now, as I haven't read the last couple of pages (yes, I am strapped for time right now)
Last year, in a Biology course I took, we studied all forms of life. When a human is first conceived, it is a single-celled creature. We should all know this from health class. This single cell then divides over and over, growing and growing, until it forms what we know as a baby. Abortion mainly is done before the embryo is at a certain stage where we are just disposing of cells. Cells that haven't grown to be certain types of cells, like skin or bone, or whatever. Stem cells. I believe that you all know what those are. So even though you are in a sense 'killing' a 'human' in it's early stages, you really are simply killing cells. Like when you take out the cleaner to wipe down your countertop, it's the same thing, you're killing cells. Different types of cells, yes, but if you are so against killing life then you wouldn't clean your house.
But I also believe that abortion should not be used as a birth control. There are other, better forms that can be used, with abortion being a last resort. As with adoption, sure, go ahead, but that's something else we learned in Biology - six billion people is enough for the world. We don't want too too many other people joining us now.
I know that I will get angry posts because of what I've just said, but that is what I believe, and you don't need to agree with me.
There really is no spoon.
KCat
KCat, I agree with you 100%.
Hey -- soon we'll be living on the Moon and Mars -- then we can have more people!
Just a question I was pondering. It's scientifically impossible for two human beings to populate a planet numbering six billion (please don't go into the Bible etc.), it just is. I've just been pondering if there will ever be a time in which the human race can no longer procriate? It could be when we reach 200,000,000,000,000,000 people. I don't care, just, what do you all think? It kind of scares me a little....
Colin Anderson
Ambition is a poor excuse for those without
sense enough to be lazy.
Nah - we won't get past the radiation belts that surround the earth - same reason man didn't go to the moonOriginally posted by Aes
Hey -- soon we'll be living on the Moon and Mars -- then we can have more people!
KCat - do you mind if I crush your skull and suck you up in a giant vacuum cleaner, coz quite frankly - I don't want you to have a shot at life.
Riiight.... You're one of THOSE people are you?Originally posted by z7
Nah - we won't get past the radiation belts that surround the earth - same reason man didn't go to the moon
::stares blankly in z7's general direction::
Geez. It's like there's always someone out there who doesn't believe in the human race's ability to progress into an enlightened race....
::sigh::
What's one to do?
Colin Anderson
Ambition is a poor excuse for those without
sense enough to be lazy.
What - someone who questions the reality they are presented...Originally posted by Aes
Riiight.... You're one of THOSE people are you?
Umm yeah.
LoL. No, I mean you have more of a pessemistic view of life -- like we're doomed to live and die on Earth -- the be all end all, as it were. At least that's what it sounds like to me....
Colin Anderson
Ambition is a poor excuse for those without
sense enough to be lazy.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks