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  1. #1
    Next stop: PHP! Marina's Avatar
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    Is abortion murder?

    This topic has already been adressed in the "Is there a God?" thread. We will continue our discussion here.

    Well, what do you think? I think that abortion is OK.

  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard Aes's Avatar
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    Re: Is abortion murder?

    Originally posted by Marina
    Well, what do you think? I think that abortion is OK.
    Wow. That was brief. =)
    I'm not going to tell you whether I think it is okay or not (yet) ... instead I'm going to relate some information about it. With all of the anti-abortion sentiment going around (i.e. Pro-Life) lately, people seem to be losing sight of another important aspect. This kind of stemmed (for me at least) from the whole Pro-Choice vs. Pro-Life conflict in the elections here in the states. But, forcing life isn't exactly the same as the name states. If women didn't get abortions, many of them would die. It's as simple as that. Sometimes the abortions are performed to save the woman. I mean, if abortion was outlawed, we'd be saving lives on one hand, but killing in another. Many women would die if they couldn't have an abortion due to complications. So, this is really a two sided topic I think....
    Colin Anderson
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  3. #3
    Fried Gold Polymath's Avatar
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    A touchy subject, so I think I'll pass the buck: it's the woman's choice, no-one else's.

  4. #4
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    Deliberately taking another life is murder, so in that respect, yes, abortion is murder - if you class a foetus as a living thing. It's a very fine line, as prior to 28 weeks, the foetus' lungs are not developed enough for it to breathe, therefore it cannot live unaided.

    All this said, I personally couldn't have an abortion. I have 2 kids and don't intend to have anymore. However, if I were to fall pregnant again, the thought of having the pregnancy terminated wouldn't even enter my mind.
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
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  5. #5
    Next stop: PHP! Marina's Avatar
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    I agree with you Aes. Sorry about my brief statement. The truth is that it's so HOT here (in my apartment) that my brain is boiling and I'll have to take a cold shower. This summer is the hottest I can remember, it's over 30 degrees celcius (don't remeber what it is in fahrenheit...). I will explain my point of view later.

  6. #6
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    Absolutley. In a recent case:

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...55E401,00.html

    a women was convicted of 2 murders. So my question is where exactly does an embryo become a human, or something resemling it? If this woman can be charged for killing an unborn child, why can the women who have an abortion, or their doctors for that matter?
    http://www.sianews.com: an independent, politically conservative news site

  7. #7
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    Originally posted by sianews
    So my question is where exactly does an embryo become a human, or something resemling it?
    A foetus/unborn child is classed as 'viable' at 28 weeks. This is the point at which the lungs should be strong enough to 'sustain life' should the baby be born early. Whether this is what the courts will go on when they decide whether or not this woman killed the baby I don't know.
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
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  8. #8
    ********* Callithumpian silver trophy freakysid's Avatar
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    After having read some of the posts at sitepointfourms, I believe there is a case for retrospective abortion.

  9. #9
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    I am against it...unless there one is going to die...ie the mother or the baby...then I can see...and if the child will not live...why prolong the whole thing...My brother and his wife lost their second child a girl...she died 18 weeks into it so that was realy sad happend about a month ago...

    But I think if you dont want a child...dont have sex, you dont have sex until you are married you dont have to worry about alot of things you do if you are not...
    http://newgrounds.com/portal/content.php?id=31235#

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  10. #10
    Misfit
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    I believe abortion is murder as well. There are many choices besides abortion, such as delivering the baby and giving it up for adoption. There are lots of people who would love to adopt a baby.

    But I think if you dont want a child...dont have sex, you dont have sex until you are married you dont have to worry about alot of things you do if you are not...
    Agreed.

  11. #11
    Next stop: PHP! Marina's Avatar
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    Hello everybody. Iím back from the shower. Hereís my humble opinion:

    I donít think that abortion is wrong because I donít consider an embryo prior to 28 weeks being a very high form of life. I also believe that every child that is born has a right to be wanted by his/hers parents.

    What I have a huge problem with are people who think that abortion is a form of contraception. Abortion is the last resort! It is NOT OK to have unprotected sex and then ďjust get an abortionĒ. Even if I donít think that it is murder, I still think that it should be avoided if it is possible. Itís not that hard to use a condom!

    to TheComputerGuy: not all married people want to have childrenÖ

  12. #12
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Okay - I can see why in some cases (such as rape victims or medical complications) why it can be necessary.

    But if a woman gets an unwanted pregnancy then it is most of the time* through irresponsibility - and that is what urk's me the most. It's the irresponsibilty it encourages that upsets me.
    So in essence, I agree with you Marina.

    But IMO life is life at the point of conception - which is also the reason that genetic testing/destruction of embryo's makes me wanna spit.

    *EDIT - Highlight MOST OF THE TIME - I had a wee accident myself once...
    Last edited by z7; Jul 19, 2001 at 11:49.

  13. #13
    32,817 silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    I have to walk a fine line because I'm so opinionated... Sometmies my opinions conflict until I say stuff out loud so forgive me if some of my statements seem self-contradictory...

    1. Pro-Life is still pro choice. I have very little problem with understanding how a woman who was raped could want an abortion (though I wouldn't encourage it, as there are so many couples who want to adopt and can't have children), how saving the mother and killing the baby is understandable, etc. However, in the large majority of cases (as stated) sex is a choice. Thus, when I say I'm "against abortion" it includes a few things in that broad statement:

    a: sex is a choice, abortion is a choice
    b: I can understand completely (though not encourage) abortion because of rape, incest, etc as well as understanding the "the mother could die" argument

    2. The whole "28 weeks" thing seems a bit... dodgy to me. I mean, a tomato is still a tomato (to me) even if it is just a seed. Thus, to me (IMHO), a fetus is still a life, @ conception. It isn't just the potential for life, it is a life. We can test the neurological responses of a fetus at 12 weeks and see that it has a developed emotional response and trigger system (we can't really test before then). So, just because something can't live independently (to me), doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to live.

    That said, I can vaguely kinda understand the 28 weeks position... It's a step in the right direction I suppose...

    3. The stem research thing is really conflicting for me (just finished my "research" yesterday into it)... I have no problem with stem research from aborted (purposefully or otherwise) fetuses, adult stem research, etc... However, the cloning for stem research is a bit of a puzzler. On one hand I truly want the medical innovations that could come (potential for life?) from it, but destroying the fetus (potential for life?) to get that seems... ugh... I mean, that fetus COULD have been another Einstein (or hitler for that matter). To me, each human life "touches" thousands of others... We're depriving the world by not letting these live...

    That said, since they're being "born" just to be killed anyways, it's hard for me to "justify" the above opinoins, but, they are still my opinions...

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  14. #14
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    Originally posted by z7
    But IMO life is life at the point of conception
    That's exactly how I see it. I had a miscarriage prior to falling pregnant with my eldest. I was only 8 weeks gone - had only found out that I was pregnant 5 days prior - so people couldn't understand why I made such a big deal about it, but to me it was a baby, my baby, regardless of how little it had developed and I was heartbroken.
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
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  15. #15
    Non-Member superharris's Avatar
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    When you think about it using Birth Control well Limits the possibility of having a child is that murder is some regard? I believe that Abortion is needed at sometimes but sometimes it is just unfair to the could-be baby give it a chance atleast I see these young girls on TV who sleep around get pregnant and then get an abortion I think these girls should accept that baby and deal with their own decisions

  16. #16
    32,817 silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Wow, this is the first unovertly non-troll post I've seen from superharris... bravo
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  17. #17
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    Pro-choice.

    Pro-responsibility.

  18. #18
    32,817 silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Pro choice
    Pro life
    Pro responsibility
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  19. #19
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    But you know what made me the maddest before my brother told me he's wife had a missscarriage... they at first thought it was going to be a mentally ill child...down syndrome...and they may want to abort...he didnt act like he was going to think that way...

    But I think it is silly when people think just because a child has problems like that, that it gives you the right to play God...people say Abort like they are killing that annoying Dos command saying Abort Retry Continue..

    You know if you dont want children when you are married, well use a condo...birth control messes up the system of you body...breaks the cells down...so intern would i rather have that instead of an abortion yes...
    http://newgrounds.com/portal/content.php?id=31235#

    I cry, and I would give my life, and your death is not invane, this I promise

  20. #20
    SitePoint Addict manipura's Avatar
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    I think it is murder, and of course I think that is wrong. But to help yourself, some extreme measures have to be taken. If you can't handle the child if you can't support it or love it. It shouldn't have ot be subjected to a life like that. Personally I don't want a child until I am finacially stable enough to have one. But if someone I loved got pregnant, I don't think I could say no to having.

    This is such a twisted subject with so many justifications to go one way, and so many to go the other way. Like the woman that made abortions legal is now traveling around the US trying to make it illegal. Whats with that?

    So many good things too it, so many bad things. Its a tough choice to make on the couples behalf. I hope it is a couple, or else the choice would probably go to killing the fetus.

    Thats my 2 cents

  21. #21
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    Perhaps abortion should be dealt with through the courts then - get a judge to decide. If the pregnancy is a result of carelessness, then have a ruling that the pregnancy should continue and the baby be given for adoption if it's not wanted by the natural parents. If the pregnancy is due to rape or incest (makes me shudder just typing that word) or could cause medical problems for the mother, then allow the abortion to go ahead.

    The only thing with this is that the courts would have to act quickly so that if it's granted, the abortion is carried out before 20 weeks - after that, it's awful. A friend of my mum's used to be a nurse and was witness to post 20 week abortions - she nearly quit because of it.

    Also, if a women really wants an abortion and the courts don't grant it there will always be some backstreet abortionist ready to take her money.
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
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  22. #22
    SitePoint Enthusiast basjen's Avatar
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    ABORTION=MURDER!


    but if you have been raped then.........
    Last edited by basjen; Jul 19, 2001 at 13:41.

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by studiococo
    Pro choice
    Pro life
    Pro responsibility

    ooh stunning.

  24. #24
    e=2.718281828459045235360 HyperBaseball's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Saz249
    Deliberately taking another life is murder, so in that respect, yes, abortion is murder


    So, is stepping on an ant or pulling a plant out of its roots murder? They're having more affect on society then something which isn't even born. Sure, you're going to say "Well, it's just an ant" or "Well, it's just a plant" but... it's just a fetus. At least the ant is going around stealing picnic baskets and the plant is taking in CO2 and releasing O2.

    All this said, I personally couldn't have an abortion. I have 2 kids and don't intend to have anymore. However, if I were to fall pregnant again, the thought of having the pregnancy terminated wouldn't even enter my mind.
    Would you consider abortion if you were raped? Please don't take that the wrong way, because rape isn't a cool thing at all, but I feel it is a legitimate question. You would honestly want to have a child of someone who committed a crime against you and then have to deal with the situation of telling the child how he/she was conceived, and explaining it to your other kids? There's no way you could keep that a secret forever.

    I'm Pro-Choice... I also feel as a guy I wouldn't have the right to make a decision involving something that will never happen to me (having kids... duh).
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  25. #25
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    I honestly can't say how I'd feel if I were raped and ended up pregnant as a result. I will admit, when I said about not contemplating abortion if I were to fall pregnant again, that I was thinking in terms of conceiving through an act of love, not violence.

    I have strong feelings about abortion, perhaps swayed by the miscarriage I had, but I can't say that being raped won't change those feelings. I guess it's one of those things you have to go through before you can know how you'll react.

    Now, HyperBaseball, with regard to my quote "Deliberately taking another life is murder.......", if you're going to quote me have the decency to take it in it's full context. What I actually said was
    Deliberately taking another life is murder, so in that respect, yes, abortion is murder - if you class a foetus as a living thing. It's a very fine line, as prior to 28 weeks, the foetus' lungs are not developed enough for it to breathe, therefore it cannot live unaided.
    I, personally, do class the foetus as a life from the moment it is conceived, but many don't and I accept that. I may not like it or agree with it, but while I'm happy to make my opinions known, I won't force others to agree with me.
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
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    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!


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