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  1. #1
    Non-Member superharris's Avatar
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    Religion - looking for the truth?

    Religion Well... I guess people need something to believe in. I mean who wants to think that after we die well nothing.... Then again who wants to think beyond just christianity well not most American's, Christianity is more of a comfort zone then a Religion both good and bad effects. For example if a Christain kills his wife or molests his child he can just ask all mighty lord for forgivness well... It is rather convenient and almost gives you total freedom (excluding some) to do what you want as long as you say you're sorry! I am sure many of you will try to explain this by saying I am wrong etc...

    Another aspect I saw alot of is when I asked people to put down one of their hates! Many were "homophobia" when in the twisted book known as the bible it lists this as a sin but I am sure someone will have an excuse for this. That is why Christianity is the number one religion in the world, it is flexible and changes with the times. Many of the views you have now are different from Christians in the past? Oh yes ,about Jesus's death yes I would do it in a heart-beat it is just logic one person vs. many. Most decent people would die for the Human Race without hesistation. Maybe Jesus's image was hyped due to time. I hope many of you keep believing in your religion if it makes you feel safe! though I am sure you disregard it only when you are accepting an award , want something , or you're about to die. etc..
    Just look at it from a point of view that can filter all the crap and just look at the facts but even more important the chemistry of religion mixed with Human behavior.


    So many points of the stupid things Christians do say and do not believe, but I am tired now oh well.
    Last edited by superharris; Jul 19, 2001 at 01:45.

  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    ~The Artist Latterly Known as Crazy Hamster~
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  3. #3
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TheOriginalH
    http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame29.html
    Definitely!
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  4. #4
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Here comes a fishy...

    Originally posted by superharris
    For example if a Christain kills his wife or molests his child he can just ask all mighty lord for forgivness well... It is rather convenient and almost gives you total freedom (excluding some) to do what you want as long as you say you're sorry! I am sure many of you will try to explain this by saying I am wrong etc...
    There must be very few real Christians who would even think about, let alone actually commit these hanus acts.
    There is a difference between saying sorry and acting it.
    You're wrong.
    Originally posted by superharris
    Oh yes, about Jesus's death...
    I think it's his life which is the real point!? - oh and the fact that he came back to life after being brutally murdered!?

    Deacon OUT>...

  5. #5
    SitePoint Zealot DarkMonkey's Avatar
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    I love how you used that sarcastic smiley after claiming something completely rediculous. I'm sure somebody will mention all the witnesses that saw his ress******** but the simple fact is: humans just don't come back to life. I don't care what "evidence" anyone comes up with to suggest he is the son of god and really did rise from the dead but in my mind it simply did not happen. If, in the highly unlikely case, jesus did rise again I'm sure it was simply because he was never dead in the first place, there is MORE evidence of that than there is that he did something that is just not possible... Even though that evidence is highly unlikely it is MORE plausible than the IMPOSSIBLE.

    The christian idea of forgiveness is a bit odd too. The whole heaven and hell thing kinda makes it sound like a farce. Rape somebody; not believe in god; die = You go to hell. Murder somebody; become a christian; ask for forgiveness; get executed; go to heaven. The whole idea is so primitive, GOD IS NOT A MORON! ughhhhhhhh. Why would God create such a rediculous scenerario for humans to live out for70 years or whatever simply to determine who goes where? I really don't know a great deal about the bible or what you guys do at your church meetings, however i do know that the concept is completely idiotic, the whole idea was invented by HUMANS as a way to keep people in line. Conveniently (as superharris says) the bible changes with the times, even though it was supposed to be written thousands of years ago by super-lords or something (I don't know who was supposed to have written it) the original version which most still read still contains countless contradictions, idiocies and plain ignorance.

    Religion should be for YOURSELF only. I can see religion as being a great way to have a purpose in life, to make friends, to have good ideals and morals and to actually increase your life expectancy and all that, however the message behind it is not sound. Rather than relying on the "book" I would rather see people think out their own beliefs and worship whoever they worship in their own way NOT preach the same old stuff that billions are already doing based on little evidence and a 'fear' or dying or something.

    Hmmmm. I'm not looking foward to backing this post up one bit Let the attacks begin.

  6. #6
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    darkmonkey... Well, how many doctoral analyses would you like of people rising from the dead in the last, oh, say, 2 weeks? I can probably dig up around 2... 2 months? Probably around 20.

    The reality is that IF god did exist, I'm fairly sure he could handle putting a little "oomph" back into some old shell.

    If you spoke about another religion the way you just spoke about christianity (or any ideal for that matter: "It seems so weird that feminists want to do away with men completely, I mean they'll need men eventually").

    Your story is off base, your understanding of the subject matter is crude at best and insulting at worst.

    So, before you lay judgement or tell others what to do, please grab a basic understanding of what you're talking about
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  7. #7
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DarkMonkey
    something completely rediculous
    Well - that's the point isn't it.
    People have attempted to disprove it - made it their lives work infact, oh but they can't and have realised it HAPPENED(not to mention the Earthquakes and Pitch Black Sky!?).

    Whether you choose to believe or not is up to you.

    Not to discredit the Bible BUT people can come to belief in Christ without the Bible - it was only put into print about 500 years ago.
    Take a look at ACTS and see how the early 'church' was formed.
    Personally (see I can think for myself ), I don't think the whole Heaven and Hell thing is as clear cut as we think.

  8. #8
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by studiococo
    If you spoke about another religion the way you just spoke about christianity (or any ideal for that matter: "It seems so weird that feminists want to do away with men completely, I mean they'll need men eventually").
    J - what was the point you were going to make here? (interested to know - I think I can guess)

    You stopped after the brackets...?

  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    He has no understanding thus has no basis for criticism. It's not like he's saying "I don't understand [x]". He's saying [x] is foolish without having a clue what [x] is...

    If you did that to buddhists ("so what was it like to be a donkey's *** in your last life"), atheists ("you believe in nothing?! DO YOU SEE MY FIST?!), feminists ("you need men to survive, so get over it"), jews ("have you ever considered maybe wax-free candles?"), etc it would be incredibly offensive (almost unthinkable). Yet, he seems to have no problem doing it to christianity.

    That irks me btw, when you coming to visit?!
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  10. #10
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Well it's interesting that people ALWAYS take pot-shot's at Christianity.
    Hmmmmmmm.

    (J - School starts Monday 10th Sept, bang smack into Mr.RHBs conference!!! - I will probably fly in for the weekend though )

  11. #11
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Great, well, if you need somewhere to crash for the weekend we have a spare bedroom
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  12. #12
    SitePoint Zealot DarkMonkey's Avatar
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    I like how you can discredit an opinion because it was not paticularly litterate or didn't sound as coherrent as some other argument. This isn't "Is coke better than Pepsi" It is basically taking in your entire life, existene the plain of the universe and attributing it to billions of people. If you are going to do that then make it 'your' ideas. It IS rediculous ot me. I'm sure to you the idea of me calling your faith rediculous is... rediculous. It matters not to me.

    as for 'picking' on christianity well it is certainly the religion that dominates the world, it's certainly the dominent one where I come from, I have also noted (this is a personal thing. Not saying all do this) a trend to speak about the religion as if it definitly happened. Christians do this to me a lot, they will try to persuade me that it is right and to become christian or something, like I need some organised faith and a book to comprehend the idea that I'm not the center of the universe; that my thoughts and opinions have absolutely no meaning or grounding anywhere. What I am saying now will affect nobody. But at least I am speaking my mind as best i can with an odd keyboard on a laptop running mac (I don't use it much). I'm also tired.

    Feel free to take huge personal offence and the terribly damming and 'hugly ignorant and uneducated' things said above. Hopefully I will still be able to stay true to myself when you insult my lack of knowledge.

  13. #13
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, once or twice I can happily ignore, but repeated attacks on half decent spelling need addressing.

    There is no such word as "rediculous" it is ridiculous.

    Like I said, not usually so picky (I know! ), but please stop embarriseng yurself.

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  14. #14
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    I don't personally care how bad people spell

    And, dark, what about christianity is proven false (don't bring up creation, I'll throw a tantrum )?
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  15. #15
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    I'd also like to add that superharris is one of teh worst troller's I've ever seen and I think it is beneath this community to answer his baits... (myself included...)
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  16. #16
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    darkmonkey...they others are not discrediting your post simply because it comes across as "uneducated". Plenty of famous (and smart) people were considered "unintelligent".

    They are discrediting your opinion because your statements really don't have any weight behind them. You say "this is untrue" and "this is ridiculous" and "how can Christians believe this or that" without ever giving facts or staticitics to back up your words.

    First off let, let me ask you to read the following link. It is the explanation of the crucifixion. It details, from a medical viewpoint, exactly what Christ went through on the cross and in the hours leading up to it:
    http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home/hblim/ref...ification.html

    Now, you tell me, is it REALLY possible that someone could have lived through that then spent THREE DAYS in a sealed tomb with guards outside the door and still be alive? Not counting the fact that his family and friends were the ones that took his body and wrapped it in burial clothing. Do you think that he would have let them think he was dead if he really wasn't?

    I respect your right to an opinion just as you should respect MY right to an opinion. However, don't go saying "they don't respect my viewpoint" when all you are doing is spouting rhetoric about what you THINK without backing it up. Feelings only take you so far and then you have to provide facts.
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  17. #17
    SitePoint Zealot DarkMonkey's Avatar
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    I'm sorry I can't back up my radical idea that Jesus might not have risen from the dead with hard facts I suppose the only one I can really come up with is the fact that no dead thing has ever been proven to come back from the dead EVER in the history of everything. I Guess I just consider real-life things like being nice to people, being generous, relieving suffering etc. etc. as more likely a worthwhile thing to do than live your life by a book and an idea that really has little relivence to your actual situation. Hmmm. I know exactly what I'm saying but I definitly have a problem conveying my ideas without appearing to attack individuals. The point is the same, you might get somebody else arguing the exact same points as me but with fewer spelling errors and a more assured grammatical style, I don't really care all that much, debate on this subject has always been pointless, merely serving as a place where people on either side of the argument can make their feelings known. It's not like anybody is going to say 'YES' after [X person] said that I will now dedicate my life to christ. Doesn't work.

    I think I will now stop posting in these religios topics as requested by somebody earlier.

  18. #18
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    merlin chamberlain, 12 mexicans (in the national mexican paper) last year, another dozen ugandans...

    Interesting how nobody EVER came back from the dead, despite the 4-5 catholic saints who apparently did, several muslims, etc, etc, etc.

    edit: I mean, what would it take? You to see it for it to be proof? Doctor's records hand-delivered?

    Ach, n/m, this isn't worth it
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  19. #19
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DarkMonkey
    ...the only one I can really come up with is the fact that no dead thing has ever been proven to come back from the dead EVER in the history of everything...
    Try telling that to the guy that got stung by 4 box-jellyfish and was clinically dead for 15 minutes...

    http://www.finalfrontier.org.uk/mccorm.htm

    If debating this subject is pointless then why did you bother joining in?

  20. #20
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    Just as a note z7...

    While I don't doubt that story happened, being dead for 15 minutes and then being revived is not the same as being dead for 3 days and "coming back to life". There is quite a large difference between the two. Note that I used a different phrase for the two incidents.

    Not to mention the statement "Ian realised he was dying, and committed his life to Jesus Christ moments before he died". I personally don't belive that God works that way. That indeed is the argument that Monkey was trying to make. You can't just live your life and then when you're about to die say "God, I'm sorry, please let me go to heaven."

    I don't believe that is an honest repentance. It's is simply fear of death, not a realization of the fact that he was a sinner and needed a saviour.
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  21. #21
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    I thought the brain died after 5 minutes?

    The guy was about to be put into the Morge when he came back (ed: He was not 'revived') - I'd say he was pretty 'dead' wouldn't you?

    Originally posted by creole
    I personally don't belive that God works that way. That indeed is the argument that Monkey was trying to make. You can't just live your life and then when you're about to die say "God, I'm sorry, please let me go to heaven."
    I don't believe that is an honest repentance. It's is simply fear of death, not a realization of the fact that he was a sinner and needed a saviour.
    Well - it's not actually the full story - just a shortened version.
    I saw the guy share his story - God actually tested him to see if he was truly repentant.
    Last edited by z7; Jul 19, 2001 at 09:17.

  22. #22
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    ok...just based on that [quoted] statement I would have a hard time believing his faith.

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  23. #23
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Faith - eh?

  24. #24
    Fried Gold Polymath's Avatar
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    I really don't believe in this religion stuff - too farfetched and nowhere near enough evidence for my liking. But there's not that much difference to my mind between a good person and a good religious person. Or for that matter, a bad person or a bad religious person.
    A religious person could be as bad as Thomas De Torquemada or as good as Mother Teresa. For me what counts is the person underneath.
    I'm sure I'll always think deep-down that religious people have been 'hoodwinked' in some way, but that doesn't mean they are fools. On the contrary, some of the most respected minds on the planet are religious.
    There is one thing which I do not accept and never will, which is: that a book which was compiled more than two hundred years after the events it describes; on the authority of people who were only interested in presenting a very narrow point of view; with very many contemporary accounts left out; which really presents only what St Paul was espousing; and further, according to contemporary documents, this is the same St Paul who in effect hijacked the Christian religion and promoted many views directly opposite to Jesus' own brother, putting very much his own spin on the religion; I do not see how this book could ever be regarded by anyone as the literal truth.
    What I am being asked to believe is that people putting this book together, two hundred years and more after the event as I said, somehow managed to compile the absolute literal truth, with no contradiction possible.
    No way, Jose, that dog won't hunt.
    Now, it is a fact that higher-level Jesuits in training are taught all about these contemporary manuscripts, which document the rift between St Paul and Jesus' brother and how St Paul managed to get his view of Jesus promoted above everyone else's. Also how the teachings of Jesus are extremely similar to those of the Essenes, a religious group of the time who said the word of God should be open to everyone, just as Jesus did. The form of religion that Jesus taught was not new. This is well known, but you never hear it taught to the flock, not ever. And you don't see it it in the bible.
    But these manuscripts, from the first century AD, do exist, they have been authenticated, they are held by the Jesuits, their contents are taught to high-level Jesuits, they document the day-to-day life of the Essenes and contemporary affairs, and paint a very different picture of St Paul than the one you see in the 'true' book made two hundred years later.
    Aah, anyway, what I'm getting at is that there are far better sources about the truth of what happened in those times than the New Testament, and the New Testament is biased towards the views of St Paul. Don't make the mistake of believing that everything you read in the Bible is all there is to know on the topic.
    I'll find the sources for all this, I have a few books on the subject at home. I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with the Red Sea Scrolls too, they tie in with what I'm saying.
    And, erm.....that's it

  25. #25
    Next stop: PHP! Marina's Avatar
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    Good post, Polymath. I agree. It's never a good idea having only one book as a reference (even in web design .)


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