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  1. #1
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    Fees for WebDesign

    I am from India. And I have designed a site for an american firm. Its a pretty small site with just 7-8 pages + logo-graphic. Its currently on www.geocities.com/msbhalla/america

    I will be adding little bit of flash to the site.

    Basically, I wanted to know wot amount of money do the designers in America ask for the same kind of site. Please help me. Coz, I dont want to be duped by my client.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    First off, the 2 can't be compared because average wages and wage rights are much lower in india.

    That said, I would have charged (though done differently) about 20K for this site for a large number of reasons, though I would have gone as low as 5K.

    However, the site as I see it it worth about 1500$.

    Please remember this is just a first-glance opinion and is not meant in any way as pay or legal advice. It's just me @ 7:00am telling you what I see through a layer of haze
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  3. #3
    busy Steelsun's Avatar
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    Usually you agree on a price BEFORE you do the work. Now that the work is done, the client can say "Here's $100, we thought that's what it would cost..." and there won't be much you can do about it.

    How much you charge will depend on many factors, just as any other profession bases their rates:
    1) The normal rates in your area
    2) Time spent
    3) Experience
    4) Skill
    5) Client needs

    Some people charge by the page, some by the hour, some by the design.
    Brian Poirier
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  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    To be honest, the rates for work in Notty's area are irrelevent. He is in India, but his client is in the States. That means he could charge whatever he sees fit. If both parties were in the same location then it might be different, but not in this case.

    Notty, Steelsun is right though, compensation needs to be talked about beforehand. It might be too late for you to tell them how much you will charge them.
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  5. #5
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    I'm not going to argue, just take issue with your stance on "if both parties were in the same locale"...

    I've had dozens of indian IT companies and freelancers offering their services for 10-15$/hour, guaranteeing quality, providing support etc.

    The indian tech industry is such that these are actually reasonable rates.

    American companies (mine included) realise that when subbing out to india it is just plain cheaper. That's why I made my comments. Not that his work is worth less, jsut that the perception is why pay this guy in india 10 times what we'd pay his next-door neighbour who could well have 5 more years experience.
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  6. #6
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Not necessarily, you quote before hand, but you dont know exactly how many hours it will take you until its done.

    That being said to figure out how much to charge figure out your hourly rate and multiply that by how many hours you worked.

    If you don't know what hourly rate you should charge, thats something you need to sit down and decide on. But you could use $50 as a standard.
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
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  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Personally, I rarely use hourly rates. I find the people I am working with are much more at ease when I tell them "this is the amount you'll be paying for this work" -- when there's a fixed price, I have an incentive to move quickly. Where's the incentive if you're paid more for taking longer?

    I do agree with Chris, though: you should decide on an hourly rate just in case. I do thoroughly disagree on the notion of $1,500, though (and I don't know what relevance the $20K/$5K numbers are supposed to have). I think the best of the best get paid in the thousands. Unless programming is involved, it had better be mind-blowing, IMO.

  8. #8
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    being a newbie to the field of commercial web designing, I asked this question 'coz i thought he was paying me very less............



    For 6-8 pages site, I had done all the graphics, put up content on each and every page, designed the forms....(he wanted printable forms.....i made them in .pdf & .rtf)...and all this took me 3 days.......

    i m now goin to put some more flash in it......

    just tell me guys wots the average fees one shud ask for the above site...in $....

    i have took advance payments from my clients in india.....but in this case as he is too far away...i wastn able to do that

    Thanks a lot
    Last edited by nOttY nUt; Jul 17, 2001 at 07:05.

  9. #9
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    I'm not sure (I've been wondering about this myself actually). Ask him what he would think a good amount is. If it doesn't sound like enough, do some bartering.

  10. #10
    busy Steelsun's Avatar
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    Also be careful to get some compensation, especially with what appears to be your client's business.

    At first glance it appears to be a US government agency, but it is not. The US Gov has their own web designers and developers (a cushy job if you can get it).

    As someone who works in the legal/investigative field, I have seen many companies that form with the appearance of a government agency that claim to facilitate you getting something (like a tax refund, or in this case the visa lottery) that is normally free or costs a small filing fee. The companies get money from unsuspecting or poorly educated people, run up large business debt (leases, materials, services, etc), and then fade away leaving a large pool of debt, some porrer people, and an uninterested government that says they'll 'look into it.' The favorite victims of these type of fly-by-night companies are foreignors that have little recourse against them. This is a large industry with many of these companies especially preying on Central & South American's that want to come to the US.

    I'm not saying your client is one of these, but beware.
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  11. #11
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy
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    I think pretty average rates for web design and programming are $40 - $100 per hour. We personally charge around $85 / hour... and base our proposals off the estimated number of hours. If we go over the number of proposed hours because the client wanted more or was indecisive, we bill them for the extra hours. I find this keeps the client in-line, they're much less likely to change their mind every minute or hand you 40 pages of handwriting and expect you to type it...

    I would say charge what your competitors charge, on average. It doens't matter whether they're in India or America.

  12. #12
    SitePoint Co-founder Matt Mickiewicz's Avatar
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    I hope SitePoint doesn't get sued for this thread... discussion of pricing issues by people of the same industry is illegal. It's called price-fixing and it's a federal offence.
    Matt Mickiewicz - Co-Founder
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  13. #13
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    Interesting

    I thought price fixing would involve us all agreeing to charge $150 / hour for web development.

    I don't know what the law says in Canada or the U.S.

    Any lawyers in the house???

    If you own a furniture business, aren't you going to shop the competition and price your goods accordingly? (Of course, this assumes you are competing on price.)

  14. #14
    SitePoint Co-founder Matt Mickiewicz's Avatar
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    You're allowed to look at what competitor's are charging, but you can't ask them for pricing advice or even talk about pricing with them.

    When somebody in the Forums says that they would charge $5000 for that particular site, and another person says $40 per hour for the work, that's price-fixing. You're not allowed to work with your competitor's to set prices.
    Matt Mickiewicz - Co-Founder
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  15. #15
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    Talking I learn something every day...

    ... thanks Matt.

  16. #16
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    Definition

    Does SitePoint have a lawyer?

    Can a lawyer out there or a law student please post the textbook definition of price fixing?
    Last edited by rgremill; Jul 19, 2001 at 18:41.

  17. #17
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Originally posted by Matt Mickiewicz
    I hope SitePoint doesn't get sued for this thread... discussion of pricing issues by people of the same industry is illegal. It's called price-fixing and it's a federal offence.
    Matt, I thought that SitePoint was an Australian company and therefore immune to laws such as this one and COPPA. Does it matter that your servers are in the US?

    Just curious...

    I doubt you could get in trouble for what your users said on a public forum, though...or am I completely wrong?

  18. #18
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy
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    I'm pretty sure I heard that under the new digital information act (or whatever it's called) moderators of forums and chat rooms were not held liable for the actions (or posts) of its members. It should be like a newspaper classified ad, the newspaper is not held responsible for any illegal activity that results from an ad being placed.

    That's just what I heard on TechTV though... take it with a grain of salt. Thanks for the info on Price Fixing though... interesting. I never would have thought about it that way.

  19. #19
    SitePoint Guru nagrom's Avatar
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    Besides the legal schmeagle -- this IS a public forum.

    What if someone's client came through here and read this? Some of you guys would be eating eggs for a month, off your own face!

    I'm not trying to be cute or anything, I don't think its good business to ask for help with a quote in a community forum.
    (This applies to several threads around, not just this one.)

  20. #20
    SitePoint Wizard jumpthru's Avatar
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    I disagree. When you have a set price, you end up figuring out how many hours the price is worth if you went on an hourly rate. Then when you approach that number and then pass it, you lose interest in a project you are making barely any money on. That causes me to start working really slowly. With an hourly rate, you are happy you are going over what you would of made with a fixed price.

    But I guess its the opposite if you quoted correctly, and will make more with a fixed price.

    I guess you are just happier with whatever pricing model makes you more. I am just going my experience of under-charging.

    Originally posted by TWTCommish
    Personally, I rarely use hourly rates. I find the people I am working with are much more at ease when I tell them "this is the amount you'll be paying for this work" -- when there's a fixed price, I have an incentive to move quickly. Where's the incentive if you're paid more for taking longer?
    Last edited by jumpthru; Jul 19, 2001 at 22:27.

  21. #21
    SitePoint Co-founder Matt Mickiewicz's Avatar
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    Obviously, the chances of us getting prosecuted for this thread are extremely slim. But it's always safe to be on the cautious side, and as others mentioned, it's never a good idea to discuss what you should charge for a project in a public forum.

    Charge whatever makes it worth your time. If it's $20 then great. If it's $200 an hour, then good for you. But asking competitor's for pricing suggestions isn't a great idea.

    And yes, SitePoint does have lawyers, and we do employ the services of other professional services firms (namely, Grant Thornton, our accounting firm).
    Matt Mickiewicz - Co-Founder
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  22. #22
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    Wink Still no definition

    I was hoping to get a textbook definition of price fixing.

    Why aren't the SitePoint lawyers posting to this thread? You should invite them to post. (More traffic! ;-) ) That would be interesting.

    Anyway, so if a SitePoint owner asks a Yahoo exec how much they charge for advertising, that would be illegal? But it wouldn't be illegal if they checked the add rates on the Yahoo site?
    Last edited by rgremill; Jul 20, 2001 at 05:01.

  23. #23
    busy Steelsun's Avatar
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    In my main business (private investigations), I am involved in several online groups for networking and information exchange. The topic of costs, prices, etc has come up numerous times.

    Since in this line of work our main clients are usually attorneys, we get to know various aspects of the law fairly well. And someone always starts to say "watch out you are not accussed of price fixing" when we start discussing prices.

    The end result is usually (after lots of posts and some flaming), that it is generally alright to share what you charge (your rate sheet) for services or product, and what you've seen charged. But you should not say "everyone should charge X for this."

    Information on price fixing in the US is covered with the Sherman Antitrust Act and it's numerous amendments and the numerous rules & regs of the Federal Trade Commision (FTC) (perhaps the worst bureaucracy aside from the IRS).

    BTW: I am not an attorney, and this is not legal advice.
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  24. #24
    e=2.718281828459045235360 HyperBaseball's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Steelsun
    BTW: I am not an attorney, and this is not legal advice.
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  25. #25
    SitePoint Wizard jumpthru's Avatar
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