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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingoal
    Well...that's called SessionSaver in FireFox...
    Can you have multiple sessions in firefox and organized them acording to theme?
    Alexandro Colorado

  2. #52
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I don't beleive that you can, but I'm not sure. Some Firefox freak will probably answer, lol.

  3. #53
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    I don't have a big deal about browsers actually. Firefox is like a knife while Opera is like a Swiss knife. As you said it doesn't hurt to have the extras but when I just need a knife, I feel it is much easier for me to go for a knife instead of a Swiss knife. Even if you put in another 100 great features to the Swiss knife, I still just need a knife, a good knife.

    I'm not complaining but you guys seem to say Opera is better in this and that because it has A, B, ... X, Y, and Z features while other browsers don't. Comparing features with Firefox does not make it any better for everyone. Don't get me wrong, Opera is very good in my opinion and it is definitely better in terms of features/functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by charmedlover
    I think people don't realize the fact that a lot of software is filled with ads. Look at AIM and MSN, they both have ads on them - how do you think they get money? Their good looks, not in America.
    Take it this way. I have this software A that is good but has ads in it. I found another software B which suits me better, ad-free and open source. I don't see the point to pay software A just to get rid of the banner when I have a free perfect alternative software B out there. That is my point, why majority of the people I know choose Firefox over Opera.

    Don't get me wrong, Opera is really good in terms of features (again).

  4. #54
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    Can you have multiple sessions in firefox and organized them acording to theme?
    Not sure this is revelent as a generic user would not use such a feature. I don't think it is a fair comparison between FF and Opera based on the Opera's unique features because FF is designed to be a "lean" browser where the user chooses which extra feature/extension they may need w/o it bloating the core app. Perhaps comparing it to the full blown Mozilla suite or NS7 is a better test.

  5. #55
    ..back with a vengeance... Ingoal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JZA
    Can you have multiple sessions in firefox and organized them acording to theme?
    I'm not sure what you're asking, as I don't see what sessions (data view) would have to do with the total representation of the browser (theme)?

    If you're talking about profile <-> session the answer would be yes AFAIK...

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  6. #56
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    I found another software B which suits me better, ad-free and open source.
    Open source eh? I always see people mention this, and I really don't see why. Open source is not a feature for software. For example Firefox, does the open source directly benefit you? Not really. Not many users actually modify the code themselves. They do have increase updates, but it isn't like Opera doesn't have them too. While I support open source I don't think it is an advantage over commerical software, and it isn't a feature like you make it seem.

    Now I hope that all of you FF users who are posting about not liking the ads in Opera are all running Linux or FreeBSD as you write that. Windows is full of freaking ads. Incentives are a direct way of advertising a product. "Here you can have a thirty day trial of MS Office, along with a free media player and web browser - isn't MS great?"

    I'm hoping your also:

    - Watching public broadcast channels.
    - Driving on backroads without billboards.
    - Growing your own food because there are too many ads in stores.
    - Knitting you clothing because you don't want brand labels all over you, god forbid advertising!

    How much further must I go? I'm sure that everything you use isn't ad-free - simply because its better. Look at cable channels compared to public broadcasting channels. Do you want PBS instead of ABC because they don't have ads? No. ABC has better TV shows.

    Opera has better features, but has a price for that. Mozilla Firefox is free, but lacks those features.

    Plus FF probably won't be free for long as Mozilla as incoporated. Say hello to someone wanting to profit off of open source!

  7. #57
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charmedlover
    Now I hope that all of you FF users who are posting about not liking the ads in Opera are all running Linux or FreeBSD as you write that. Windows is full of freaking ads. Incentives are a direct way of advertising a product. "Here you can have a thirty day trial of MS Office, along with a free media player and web browser - isn't MS great?"

    I'm hoping your also:

    - Watching public broadcast channels.
    - Driving on backroads without billboards.
    - Growing your own food because there are too many ads in stores.
    - Knitting you clothing because you don't want brand labels all over you, god forbid advertising!

    How much further must I go?
    Don't go any further because your analogies aren't right. While I'm driving on the highway I don't have ads in my field of vision at all times. Likewise at the store or on TV. If ads were being displayed constantly as my TV shows were running then maybe you'd have a point.

    I like Opera as much as the next browser and will give it every opportunity to succeed, but your logic is a bit fallacious.

  8. #58
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vgarcia
    your logic is a bit fallacious.
    Agreed.
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  9. #59
    Proud Mac User templates911's Avatar
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    Firefox is overall just a better browser and its free . I also use Safari but when im not using it I use firefox. I did have Opera installed but it kept crashing so I uninstalled it.

  10. #60
    Barefoot on the Moon! silver trophy Force Flow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by templates911
    Firefox is overall just a better browser and its free . I also use Safari but when im not using it I use firefox. I did have Opera installed but it kept crashing so I uninstalled it.
    How can you say it's a better browser overall? What makes it better?

    For example, it's better than IE because IE is prone to be a target for spyware, ActiveX scripts, and various ads and pop-ups. Plus, IE does not take W3C web standards into account. Other than that, IE is a fairly decent browser. But because FF takes W3C standards seriously, as well as spyware and pop-up prevention, it is indeed a better browser than IE.

    IMHO, open source communities can be overrated at times. Just look at some of the open source linux projects...with too many people working on it and no coordination, bugs and bloat are prone to appear. Heck, in one of the BSD flavors, someone made a comment about some code in the kernal: "Does this belong here?" d'oh

    What is your system config that made Opera crash so much, and, were you using a beta version or final version?

    As for the add supported thing, I see where charmedlover was going with the analogies. I'm sure all of you have been surfing the net for a long time, and in that time you've come across a lot of banner ads. Isn't it true that you've learned to tune most of them out?

    For example, when SitePoint was redesigned, they placed the search box where the banner ad used to be, and it didn't register with me: http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280682

    All those ads are up in your face all the time...on the road, on your clothes, on your hats, etc...but nowadays, you've learned to tune most of it out. Same thing with the ad banner in opera. Once you get used to it, you'll tune it right out because for *you*, it's not functional and not useful for *you*, and so these kinds of things are ignored.

  11. #61
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force Flow
    As for the add supported thing, I see where charmedlover was going with the analogies. I'm sure all of you have been surfing the net for a long time, and in that time you've come across a lot of banner ads. Isn't it true that you've learned to tune most of them out?

    For example, when SitePoint was redesigned, they placed the search box where the banner ad used to be, and it didn't register with me: http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280682

    All those ads are up in your face all the time...on the road, on your clothes, on your hats, etc...but nowadays, you've learned to tune most of it out. Same thing with the ad banner in opera. Once you get used to it, you'll tune it right out because for *you*, it's not functional and not useful for *you*, and so these kinds of things are ignored.
    I personally don't care about the ads and understand it's the price I pay for not registering Opera. I just don't like faulty logic

  12. #62
    Barefoot on the Moon! silver trophy Force Flow's Avatar
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    Sure the analogy has a few flaws, but its purpose is to try to illustrate an idea and make it easier to digest.

  13. #63
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
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    Sometimes a flawed analogy is worse than no analogy. The analogies mentioned above do not support Opera's cause nor do they help illustrate an idea.

    As has been pointed out in many discussions on this and related topics, the billboard analogy is completely flawed because billboards don't pay for the road one is driving on or facilitate drivers getting to their destination, they are simply visual pollution that disrupt the landscape.

    Ads on TV don't equate to Opera's ads because Ads on TV pay for the production and distribution of the TV programing (content). Opera ads to not help pay the cost of developing or delivering content. The cost of developing content is borne by web publishers and the cost of delivering content (e.g. bandwisth) is shared by the web publisher (who pays for bandwidth from the server to the Internet backbone) and the user (who pays for Internet access via their ISP).

    If one were to try to fit Opera into a TV anology, the web publisher would be equivelant to the TV network that produces the programing, the ISP would be equivelant to the cable company that along with the TV network helps deliver the programing and Opera would be the TV set that displays the programing. As a general rule, TV sets do not display their own ads (at least none I have ever seen).
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  14. #64
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    Don't go any further because your analogies aren't right. While I'm driving on the highway I don't have ads in my field of vision at all times. Likewise at the store or on TV. If ads were being displayed constantly as my TV shows were running then maybe you'd have a point.
    As has been pointed out in many discussions on this and related topics, the billboard analogy is completely flawed because billboards don't pay for the road one is driving on or facilitate drivers getting to their destination, they are simply visual pollution that disrupt the landscape.
    Actually here in Florida (maybe not elsewhere) most billboards have to pay two legal fees on having any kind of road sign. They have to have a permit for it in the first place, renewed constantly and has to be long enough to last all day (they have permits for signs that are only allowed to be out for 2 hours a day, weird?). Then they have to pay a fee for using up the easement. This all goes into supporting roads.

    You might also compare Opera to a toll booth, which we have plenty of in FL too.

    Ads on TV don't equate to Opera's ads because Ads on TV pay for the production and distribution of the TV programing (content). Opera ads to not help pay the cost of developing or delivering content. The cost of developing content is borne by web publishers and the cost of delivering content (e.g. bandwisth) is shared by the web publisher (who pays for bandwidth from the server to the Internet backbone) and the user (who pays for Internet access via their ISP).
    Actually if you look at it from a different perspective. Although Opera doesn't directly pay the publisher, they give web developers more means to design their websites - a huge advantage to me.

    People always say that FF is better, but they never have a really convincing reason. "It's open source." Then why aren't you posting from Linux? "It's free." Not everything free is better. Usually these are the dimwits who make one post in the topic and cannot backup a single statement at all, they don't even have an arguments.

    Sure the comparisons aren't the best, but I think that they illustrate my point. There are tons of ads in the world, and the method excluding them isn't the road most people take (maybe the Omish, lol).

  15. #65
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charmedlover
    Actually here in Florida (maybe not elsewhere) most billboards have to pay two legal fees on having any kind of road sign.
    Here in Maine, billboards are illegal and there are strict rules in regards to the signage in front of a business.


    Quote Originally Posted by charmedlover
    Actually if you look at it from a different perspective. Although Opera doesn't directly pay the publisher, they give web developers more means to design their websites - a huge advantage to me.
    I've used Opera and I use Firefox for web development from a pure rendering stance, I see no advantage to either. However, the Web Developer extension for Firefox puts Firefox way ahead of Opera. As far as I'm concerned, the Web Developer extension is the best tool I have ever seen for debuging a webpage. The Web Developer extension allows me to visually home in on the cause of display issues faster than any other tool I have used.

    Quote Originally Posted by charmedlover
    Sure the comparisons aren't the best, but I think that they illustrate my point. There are tons of ads in the world, and the method excluding them isn't the road most people take (maybe the Omish, lol).
    Maybe because there are tons of ads in the world, people don't like using Opera with its ads when there are plenty of options that don't have ads.

    Personally, I think the toolbar ads are just one of many reasons why people don't adopt Opera. I personally prefer Firefox over Opera because of the ad/registration fee issue, because I like Firefox's extensions and because I don't like my software having features I don't want to use. As others have said, Opera is like a Swiss arm knife, all I really want is a scalpel.
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  16. #66
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    If you're going to use Firefox extensions to get all of the features of Opera, then what is the point? Just the fact you have to actually pay for something you'll constantly use in your life?

  17. #67
    Non-Member Musicbox's Avatar
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    opera is very stylish which uses very nice colors in the browser and some nice features it have like display site without images.....etc

  18. #68
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charmedlover
    If you're going to use Firefox extensions to get all of the features of Opera, then what is the point? Just the fact you have to actually pay for something you'll constantly use in your life?
    I only use a few select extensions and they provide different functionality than is provided by Opera. With Firefox and its extensions, I am able to customize the browser to ONLY have the functionality I WANT, nothing more nothing less. For instance I don't want or need a built in newsreader nor built in email client (I use Pegasus Mail).

    To me every extra feature that I don't want or need represents unused functionality that has the potential of containing security vaulnerabities. Like I said, earlier, I don't want a Swiss army knife, when all I need is a scalpel.

    Opera tries to be like a Swiss army knife in that it does everything (email, rss, newsreader, web browser, etc.). Firefox on the otherhand focuses on being a web browser and does it very well. With extensions, Firefox can be tuned to do and behave exactly as the user wants.

    My favorite extensions are (in order):
    1) Web Developer: Opera's web developer centric features can not compare.

    2) Flashblock: I installed this because of being slammed too often by resource intensive Flash objects that sucked down all of my resources. I don't mind ads, just don't like it when they grind my computer to a halt. To my knowedge Opera does not have a similar feature.

    3) Resize Search Box: This allows me to resize the search box on my address bar such that it has more space to view the text I enter for search strings. Opera does not have this ability.

    4) User Agent Switcher: This is great for testing UA detection routines when programing. This extension is way more powerful and flexible than Opera's UA switcher.

    5) Nuke Anything: this good for dealing with the occasional buggy site where some object is hiding other objects.

    Now these are all personal my preferences, but you see that my reasons for prefering Firefox over Opera has less to do with ads in the toolbar and more to do with what functionality I do and do not want.

    To try and blindly declare that Opera or Firefox is better than the other as a blanket statement fails to recognize that which browser is better depends upon which browser best suits the needs of each individual user. Some users will like Opera better and some will like Firefox better.

    To poo poo Firefoxes extensions as nothing more than adding Opera's functionality to Firefox is to totally fail to understand the nature of extensions and why they make Firefox so much more customizable than Opera. Wether or not extensions are a good thing or a bad thing boils down to individual preference and individual risk analisis.
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  19. #69
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musicbox
    nice features it have like display site without images.....etc
    All browsers have had the ablity to display webpages without downloading images.
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  20. #70
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    I don't believe that IE does, or at least I've never seen a way to do it before.

    To try and blindly declare that Opera or Firefox is better than the other as a blanket statement fails to recognize that which browser is better depends upon which browser best suits the needs of each individual user. Some users will like Opera better and some will like Firefox better.
    I think that I've come to realize this, although these people who randomly jump on these discussions that just scream FF is the best without really keeping up to date on this countless discussions really annoy me. I do agree that Opera fits my needs, while FF fits others'. Still even if more people are comfortable with FF does not make it a better web browser.

  21. #71
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    Ads on TV don't equate to Opera's ads because Ads on TV pay for the production and distribution of the TV programing (content). Opera ads to not help pay the cost of developing or delivering content. The cost of developing content is borne by web publishers and the cost of delivering content (e.g. bandwisth) is shared by the web publisher (who pays for bandwidth from the server to the Internet backbone) and the user (who pays for Internet access via their ISP).
    Just to add a little more. I found my imagination hilarious too. Based on the analogy, you can try and imagine your TV has an extra panel that pops out on top which displays ads when it's on. Now, that is similar to ads on Opera.

    I actually like TV commercial ads. Similar to ads on websites like Adsense, they are useful at times.

    Reading back my posts, I never said which is better. I was just trying to tell why one is being preferred over the other by majority. Both are good.

    Now, I'm out of this discussion. It is getting too hot. Have fun people!

  22. #72
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charmedlover
    I don't believe that IE does, or at least I've never seen a way to do it before.
    Internet Options ==> Advanced ==> Multimedia ==> Show Pictures
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  23. #73
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I actually like TV commercial ads. Similar to ads on websites like Adsense, they are useful at times.
    Well Opera's ads are AdSense....

    And thanks for the IE bit, I'll try and remember that.

  24. #74
    SitePoint Zealot Digitalman's Avatar
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    I have used IE then mozilla then opera 7 then firefox and now I'm thinking to switch back to opera 8 it has become so much better since opera 7.

    Opera 7 was good, but opera 8 is just fantastic everyone that is saying firefox is better than opera 8 has never really used opera 8. Not just try it for one hour really use it.

    The only really bad thing about opera is the name opera. Really big mistake of the creators how can you promote something with a name opera.

  25. #75
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Opera 8 is a huge improvement from Opera 7 and offers much more customization interface wise. It also startups much faster (Opera7 was a bit slow at that). I joined Opera sometime around the end of version 6, with a few weeks later I had Opera7 running. That was my switch from IE, at that time I hadn't even heard of Firefox!

    I also agree that the name Opera doesn't sound very inviting. It doesn't have that "coolness" factor.


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