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  1. #26
    Pointiest Petitions carrotflowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defender1
    The main reason I support the theory that Snape did it out of request and not betrayl is, as stated, Dumbledore would not beg for his life.
    He was begging for Snape to take his life.
    There's something that I'm sure will be revealed in the next book shedding light on this point.

    I see what TheOriginalH means, and it does make you think about the last few books when Harry always ends up seeming wrong about Snape. But my main reason is that Snape just being that evil all along rings false to me, it's just so nasty, too nasty I feel for the ton*e of these books. Like if it were true, any time you reread the previous books, any time Snape came up you'd just be sickened. I felt in OOTP, when we get a glimpse of Snape's past through the Occlumency lessons, part of the point was to make him more human and complex and sympathetic. For the point to just be to turn around and say nope, Snape's just that evil doesn't seem right.

  2. #27
    SitePoint Wizard Defender1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by furryyuri

    I see what TheOriginalH means, and it does make you think about the last few books when Harry always ends up seeming wrong about Snape. But my main reason is that Snape just being that evil all along rings false to me, it's just so nasty, too nasty I feel for the ton*e of these books. Like if it were true, any time you reread the previous books, any time Snape came up you'd just be sickened. I felt in OOTP, when we get a glimpse of Snape's past through the Occlumency lessons, part of the point was to make him more human and complex and sympathetic. For the point to just be to turn around and say nope, Snape's just that evil doesn't seem right.
    And more support for the "Snapes not really that evil" argument is if he was, I imagine some level of taunting or at least some comments about the act. There would've been some sort of ribbing. People that evil can't resist.
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  3. #28
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy asp_funda's Avatar
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    Cool

    I rushed to get mine at 8pm on 16th, just about at the closing time & grabbed the last copy in the store, a gal(about my age) almost cried as she was just right behind me to get it. Had it been anything else(not chocolates), I'd have given it to her just as courtsey but not HP, no way!! I didn't drive 25km for nothing
    Then it was a marathon reading from 11pm to 11am on 17th when I finished, didn't quite get it(the killing ofcourse) so re-read it in 4 hours the very same day.

    Quote Originally Posted by furryyuri
    I did read that Rowling said she won't even start writing until the new year.
    I thought that I read it at jkrowling.com that she's already written the last chapter which has been formed in his mind for some 10 years or so!!


    Quote Originally Posted by seanf
    What do you think: Did Dumbledore plead with Snape not to kill him or did he plead for Snape to kill him (Dumbledore knew he was going to die) so that Malfoy would not be forced to by the Death Eaters?
    I think that Dumbledore wasn't pleading for his life, he was too noble & a Gryffindor, remember? I think he didn't want Malfoy to kill him, didn't want him to be a killer, Malfoy was quite uncertain about killing Dumbledore as well, he almost lowered his wand



    Quote Originally Posted by Defender1
    I had actually guessed Snape as the HBP, but thought it wasn't possible as I didn't think Snape was old enough to be him because of the publish date of the Potions book.

    Well, if you remember, the Levicorpus spell which HBP invented is mentioned in "order of phoenix" as well when James uses it on Snape(Harry seeing this in Snape's memory during Occlumency lessons). This has never been mentioned anywhere else(unless you take into account Hermione's reference to the muggle torture scene in book-4). so I thought that this HBP was in Hogwarts at the same time when James was there, was just a guess but it was right.


    Quote Originally Posted by Defender1
    As far as Dumbledores death goes, I knew it was going to happen, but I was way off on when & by who. I figured somewhere in book 7, Voldermort would finish off Dumbledore. Never would I have guessed it would be in that book and by Snape of all people.
    yeah, I didn't think it would be in HBP at the hands of Snape. Ofcourse I never trusted him(particularly not after I read he informed Voldemort about the prophecy) but never thought that a low-life like Snape would kill him, Voldemort killing Dumbledore was somewhat acceptable as Voldemort being more powerful than anyone else(except Dumbledore).

    Quote Originally Posted by Defender1
    I was also disappointed about Harry leaving Ginny. Harry's practically a Weasley as it is. It just works him hooking up with Ginny and those two just seem right together. I hope that those 2 get back together in book 7.
    ..............
    Now, some may say that Harry wasn't/couldn't be in love with Ginny yet. Hell, they were only together about a month. But anyone who's been in love would have picked up on the little hints that JK was dropping everytime Harry saw Ginny kissing some other guy, showing that it was more than just a crush.
    I was neither disappointed nor surprised. I thought that Ginny & Harry would click sometime in coming issues when she was introduced in book-2. as for Harry leaving Ginny, well, that wasn't a surprise at all, I thought anyone having read all 6 books would now know what kind of person Harry is, he's noble & sacrificing. he doesn't want his loved ones to be hurt, he's already suffered a lot(his parents, Sirius, Dumbledore). if you remember, he didn't want anyone to come with him to Ministry in "order of phoenix" b'coz he didn't want them hurt, he tried to stop them at the ministry entrance as well. then he gave Ron, Hermione & Ginny his Felix when he was going to hunt the Horcrux with Dumbledore, even though his need was dire as what he was gonna do was dangerous despite Dumbledore with him, why? b'coz he wanted them(Ron, Hermione & Ginny) to be OK. so he doesn't want Ginny hurt in his pursuit of Voldemort, Ron & Hermione are a different case, they are the best friends & he know their capabilities as they have been with him in almost all dangers since book-1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Defender1

    Honestly I believe (because of the amount of emphasis put on it by JK/Dumbledore in HBP) that love (aka Ginny) would be rather crucial to helping Harry defeat Voldermort.
    well, no, the "love" referred by Dumbledore is not Ginny but the emotion. its the "love" which Harry's mum had for him b'coz of which she sacrificed her life to save Harry; b'coz of which Voldemort's curse failed and he wasn't able to touch Harry without hurting himself(in book-1). this is the "love" which flows in Harry for his parents, Sirius, his friends, b'coz of which Voldemort was not able to possess Harry(in "order of phoenix"). its this "love" which even Voldemort knows but detests and don't believe to be powerful, the fact mentioned again & again since book-1 and solidified in HBP when he comes to Dumbledore asking for the job of DADA teacher(when Dumbledore takes Harry in his memory), where he calls Dumbledore a fool to believe in the power of "love"(or something to that effect).
    also, if you remember, it was his "love" & loyalty to Dumbledore which brought Fawkes for the aid of Harry in book-2 & Dumbledore said that "he'll only be gone from Hogwarts when none there are loyal to him", which is again repeated by Harry to Scrimgeour in HBP as Harry believes Dumbledore to be still with him just like his parents & Sirius.

    I think that its been mentioned in other stories & movies as well, as in StarWars where it was his love for Luke which made Annakin kill the emperor and made him come back as a spirit to Luke, it was their love for Luke which made Yoda & Obi-Wan come back as spirits to him. Same in LOTR, it was their love for the good that kept Aragorn-Gimli-Legolas going on & on even after the fellowship broke, it was his love for Frodo that kept Sam going on with him till the end, even when Frodo deserted him.
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  4. #29
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy asp_funda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanf

    As for them getting back together, I do think that JK Rowling will gave Harry some happiness at then end, but I have a horrible feeling she will kill Ginny in the final book. Ron and Hermione aside, JK kills everyone Harry becomes truly close to.

    yeah, I have the same feeling, as Rowling did mention that the killings aren't over yet, more will die, its just the beginning.



    Quote Originally Posted by Defender1
    I would be thoroughly pissed if that's the case.
    I want a happy ending dammit.
    .....
    Also another reason why I don't see (hope!) Ginny die is Dumbledore's death seemed to me to be one helluva climax. The epitome of loss for Harry.
    well, Rowling has nasty ways of surprising us, no? HBP is the proof to that!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Defender1
    So I'm hoping things will get better in book 7.
    I wouldn't bank on it!! some happiness indeed but in the end maybe!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Defender1
    Wow, that's just horrible.
    I'm suprised he wasn't shot.

    I'm glad I get my HP books at the local supermarket.
    Screw B&Ns massive crouds.

    Order them online & you'll be more safe, no more ruddy crowd to spoil the fun!!


    Quote Originally Posted by furryyuri

    I wish we'd learned a little moreabout why he thought he was other than she smelled like flowers and was funny.

    well, if you've been careful, you'd have noticed that in Slughorn's first class, the love-potion smelt like the flowers to Harry & as Hermione said, it smelt different to each person according to what attracted them!!



    Quote Originally Posted by TheOriginalH
    Off Topic:

    First time I've ever used the spoiler tags...very neat
    I didn't even know they existed until Sean raised the curtains in this thread!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Defender1
    The main reason I support the theory that Snape did it out of request and not betrayl is, as stated, Dumbledore would not beg for his life.
    He was begging for Snape to take his life.
    There's something that I'm sure will be revealed in the next book shedding light on this point.
    you are being just over optimistic, no?


    Quote Originally Posted by furryyuri

    But my main reason is that Snape just being that evil all along rings false to me, it's just so nasty, too nasty I feel for the ton*e of these books. Like if it were true, any time you reread the previous books, any time Snape came up you'd just be sickened. I felt in OOTP, when we get a glimpse of Snape's past through the Occlumency lessons, part of the point was to make him more human and complex and sympathetic. For the point to just be to turn around and say nope, Snape's just that evil doesn't seem right.

    well, you won't believe Snape to be evil even when he informed Voldemort about the prophecy? then I think you won't consider Wormtail to be wrong even though he betrayed James & Lily Potter. that part of his memory in OOTP was just an attempt to make his image a bit good in the eyes of Harry, & it did work. But I remember Sirius said in the beginning of OOTP that there are some marks that don't come off!!
    Then also, Voldemort doesn't seem like a person who wouldn't come to know of someone who is betraying him.
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  5. #30
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy asp_funda's Avatar
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    Cool 2 big questions.....


    I'm surprised no-one's raised this yet!!
    Who took the horcrux(Slytherin's locket) and marked himself as R.A.B.?? any thoughts? I have a person in mind & might have some reasons to justify of him being that R.A.B.



    will Rowling continue after the 7th book?
    I do think she will, come to think from just a business point of view, its been a money spinner for her which has hit a jackpot everytime. it made her from nothing to everything(richest woman in UK worth $1billion). so doing away with something that good just seems like mad to me, when there's definitely scope for more. she says that she'll try her hand at something else, but I don't think that would be a wise move, nothing says that those other writings of her would have atleast half of HP's success, its may happen(maybe become more popular than HP) or it may not happen, its a risk, but HP is already a jackpot.
    Then I think that people won't sit quiet if she decides to stop after the 7th book.
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  6. #31
    Pointiest Petitions carrotflowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asp_funda

    well, if you've been careful, you'd have noticed that in Slughorn's first class, the love-potion smelt like the flowers to Harry & as Hermione said, it smelt different to each person according to what attracted them!!

    Actually that was what I was referring to when I said I wished we had a little more to go on than just that she smelled like flowers. Of course, Rowling telegraphed that they would end up together since Book 1 practically, but I still wanted to see their love develop a little before Harry just started fantasizing about her. Call me a romantic but I like a foundation for my romances, some scene in this book where they had some meaningful conversation or something. But this is just a tiny complaint because all I really care about is the magic!

    About RAB, I have been trying NOT to think about it because I would like to be surprised! OTOH I have been thinking of rereading the first 6 soon, to see if I can figure it out. I think Rowling has said that if you read carefully you'd figure it out.

    About the evil bit, yeah, that was definitely evil. I think I am making a distinction in my own mind between being evil in your past and being unbelievably evil in the present. Snape was always a serious jerk, but killing D was such an act of badness that my mouth was open for 5 minutes.

  7. #32
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    will Rowling continue after the 7th book?
    I do think she will, come to think from just a business point of view, its been a money spinner for her which has hit a jackpot everytime. it made her from nothing to everything(richest woman in UK worth $1billion). so doing away with something that good just seems like mad to me, when there's definitely scope for more. she says that she'll try her hand at something else, but I don't think that would be a wise move, nothing says that those other writings of her would have atleast half of HP's success, its may happen(maybe become more popular than HP) or it may not happen, its a risk, but HP is already a jackpot.
    Then I think that people won't sit quiet if she decides to stop after the 7th book.
    I think that Rowling's passion for Potter, for mystery and for magic is stronger than her passion for cash (and it can really afford it to be with that amount in the bank). I suspect that (imho correctly) Potter and friends will be forced to live on in peoples imaginations rather than in print after the next book. It's a stronger decision to make, but I think she'll make it, and carve her place in literary history as a result.
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  8. #33
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy asp_funda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by furryyuri

    Actually that was what I was referring to when I said I wished we had a little more to go on than just that she smelled like flowers. Of course, Rowling telegraphed that they would end up together since Book 1 practically, but I still wanted to see their love develop a little before Harry just started fantasizing about her. Call me a romantic but I like a foundation for my romances, some scene in this book where they had some meaningful conversation or something. But this is just a tiny complaint because all I really care about is the magic!

    yeah well, I'd sure have liked a bit more on HP & Ginny but then, HP is not a romantic story, its about "love"(romance{boy-girl} is a small part of it) for your closest ones, about good & bad.


    Quote Originally Posted by furryyuri

    About RAB, I have been trying NOT to think about it because I would like to be surprised! OTOH I have been thinking of rereading the first 6 soon, to see if I can figure it out. I think Rowling has said that if you read carefully you'd figure it out.
    If you just read 5th book carefully and the 6th one, then I think you'll know who is RAB(I think its him). He's not mentioned in any earlier books. Try guessing who he is, its not that hard(you need to put 2 & 2 together like Snape & the Ministry).

    Quote Originally Posted by furryyuri

    About the evil bit, yeah, that was definitely evil. I think I am making a distinction in my own mind between being evil in your past and being unbelievably evil in the present. Snape was always a serious jerk, but killing D was such an act of badness that my mouth was open for 5 minutes.
    yeah, I didn't believe it first either, Dumbledore dead, leave alone Snape killing him. That's why I read it again as I don't think I quite digested it in first go!!


    Quote Originally Posted by TheOriginalH
    I think that Rowling's passion for Potter, for mystery and for magic is stronger than her passion for cash (and it can really afford it to be with that amount in the bank). I suspect that (imho correctly) Potter and friends will be forced to live on in peoples imaginations rather than in print after the next book. It's a stronger decision to make, but I think she'll make it, and carve her place in literary history as a result.
    well, what I said was just a practical view of life.
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  9. #34
    Colonel Jack O'neill Josh_'s Avatar
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    I was surprised how the book ended, not only because of the death, but how she didn't really set it up for the next book being the last.

    I also haven't seen this brought up, but can there not be a Dumbledore ghost?

  10. #35
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy asp_funda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh_

    I was surprised how the book ended, not only because of the death, but how she didn't really set it up for the next book being the last.

    dude, the book is perfectly staged for the grand finale. The hero(Harry) has bid adieu to his gal(Ginny), has his best pals standing by his side, & is ready to go in for the kill(3 horcruxes{as I'm guessing that RAB destroyed slytherin's locket which is why he was killed} and then Voldemort). how can it be better set for the next book? I guess you are used to the endings in other 5 books where they end at the King's Cross everytime with the Dursleys, but that ending would've made this book a complete story in itself. I think that Rowling has ended this one in this way to not end it, but keep the thread hanging to be picked up again in the next book.


    Quote Originally Posted by Josh_

    I also haven't seen this brought up, but can there not be a Dumbledore ghost?
    No I don't think that there'll be a ghost of Dumbledore. He wasn't afraid of dying, so he would've gone on just like Sirius(as Nick mentioned in "order of phoenix"). besides Dumbledore would always be with Harry(in his feelings & Fawkes which I strongly believe will come back to Harry in next book, Harry was most loyal to Dumbledore, there's no doubt about it), & he's already in the Headmistress's room along with the portraits of other ex headmasters & headmistresses of Hogwarts.
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  11. #36
    Mlle. Ledoyen silver trophy seanf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asp_funda
    I think that Dumbledore wasn't pleading for his life ...
    Sorry, I should have phrased my question better. Dumbledore was not afraid of death ("... to the well-organised mind, death is but the next great adventure") so what I was asking was whether he was pleading for Snape not to turn fully to the "dark side" by committing murder. However, the more I think about it the more I believe that Dumbledore was pleading with Snape to kill him to save Draco from being forced to. I also think we may have heard the "conversation" (non-verbal) between them when Harry was making Dumbledore drink the potion.

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  12. #37
    Colonel Jack O'neill Josh_'s Avatar
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    My first impression when I read that dumbledore was pleading was that he didn't...want to believe, I guess, that snape was really still associated with voldemort

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    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy asp_funda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanf
    Sorry, I should have phrased my question better. Dumbledore was not afraid of death ("... to the well-organised mind, death is but the next great adventure")
    yes, that's right.

    Quote Originally Posted by seanf
    However, the more I think about it the more I believe that Dumbledore was pleading with Snape to kill him to save Draco from being forced to.
    Precisely that's what I understood & that's what I said!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Josh_

    My first impression when I read that dumbledore was pleading was that he didn't...want to believe, I guess, that snape was really still associated with voldemort
    well, that's what I thought at first but I read it again & then I thought otherwise.
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  14. #39
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    I finished it last night, so I can start reading threads again.

    I'm disappointed in the Dumbledore death. Not disappointed in the book (the writing itself), but just in the death. Even though I like a lot of the characters, Dumbledore was like my favorite character.

    Anyway, one thing that strikes me is how is Harry going to find the Horcruxes? When Dumbledore took Harry with him to get that one... Harry couldn't have found squat. How would he have known where to look, to swim, to use blood on the door, to find the chain, etc. When Harry asks how he can tell it's the place, he says it has "known magic." And he doesn't know if his shivers were because he was cold or because of the enchantments. ...

    So, then... he has a bit to learn still. But, how is he going to learn it? One thing I thought about was the paintings in the headmasters office. I think it might be in the books somewhere, but can the paintings be asked questions? That is to say, does the painting of the person have the same memory as the person? That one painting in Dumbledores office (related to Black, I think... name escapes me) seemed to weigh in with his opinion from time to time and does seem to have a memory... which makes you think it's possible. Perhaps not. Being a more casual fan, I may have missed something.

    The Order... is McGonagall the default leader there, too? What was the plan for such circumstances, if there was even a plan? If the Horcruxes are the key and Dumbledore told Harry not to tell anyone of their meetings, are Harry, Ron, Hermionee the only ones who know about them? Being the vital key (can't eliminate Voldemort without eliminating them) that they are, it is a shame not to have more of the Order working on finding them... did he really mean for Harry not to reveal it even after death? Hmm.

    The whole thing came up very suddenly and is kind of perplexing. It just seems a little strange for Dumbledore to just drink this unknowing potion. Why would he do so then? As intelligent as he was, you have to say he understood his value. And while he's not the type to have someone test out things for him (probably feeling that he as strong as anyone when it comes to fighting off it's effects)... why not take a cup full of it back and analyze the stuff a bit? Have someone else take a sip and work out what it does and how to cure it. Perhaps he couldn't have. Perhaps the fluid could not leave the island. Perhaps he already knew what it did. And perhaps that is why he wanted the strongest wizard to drink it and the strongest second wizard the boat would allow to make sure that he did.

    Did he do it that night because he knew he would die that evening and as he was going to die already, he may as well get that potion out of the way?

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    SitePoint Addict smittenbite's Avatar
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    wow. i went with my friend when it came out and stayed with her at b&n for SEVEN hours to wait to buy that book! the drawback was that it was really crowded and crazy in there. but the greatest part was we went 'people-watching' where we went aroudn to see all the people dressedup weird. lol.
    nothing.

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    SitePoint Wizard Dylan B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asp_funda

    If you just read 5th book carefully and the 6th one, then I think you'll know who is RAB(I think its him). He's not mentioned in any earlier books. Try guessing who he is, its not that hard(you need to put 2 & 2 together like Snape & the Ministry).

    Who do you do you think it is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dylan B
    Who do you do you think it is?
    I would guess he's going to say Regulus Black, but he may surprise us.

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    Perplexing though the Dumbledore death may be, when I look back I see it really was quite clear he would eventually die. And the circumstances.... make me think even more so. Either that or Snape would die because of the unbreakable vow.

    I'm thinking....... did Dumbledore know about the vow in any way? Maybe... just maybe he could have wanted Snape to remain a spy -- not for himself, but for the Order. Maybe he would realise it was a necessary sacrifice in order to have a spy.

    Snape didn't really seem like the "bad guy" in that even with all the opportunities he had, he didn't kill Harry. If Voldemort had been aware of part of the prophecy surely he would *want* him dead?

    The only controversial part with this is that, in a way, Dumbledore's presence is important. Wasn't he the only one He ever feared, after all?

    All in all, I felt sorry to see Dumbledore go. He was the most interesting character in the story, he was...

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    Yeah, pretty much how I feel.

    And that's the whole thing, pretty much.

    For Snape to have killed Dumbledore on his orders, he would have had to known about the vow. The main reason was that Malfoy and (mostly) Snape's life would be worth more to their cause than Dumbledore's with Snape on the inside.

    Snape said that Voldemort wanted Harry. So, that would be why he didn't kill him, supposedly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iFroggy
    Snape said that Voldemort wanted Harry. So, that would be why he didn't kill him, supposedly.
    Indeed, this is answered by Snape himself in the very beggining where he states that Harrys death is reserved for the dark lord himself.

    Also, I believe vehemently that Dumbledore will still be present and important in the 7th book in the form of a portrait (which JRK very blatently pointed out when McGonnagal took over the headmasters office).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defender1
    Also, I believe vehemently that Dumbledore will still be present and important in the 7th book in the form of a portrait (which JRK very blatently pointed out when McGonnagal took over the headmasters office).
    Yeah, like I said above... that painting is curious. Do the objects of paintings have the full memories of their time alive? If so, you can just see them (Harry, especially) asking that portrait a ton of questions...

    That would make sense

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    Quote Originally Posted by iFroggy
    Yeah, like I said above... that painting is curious. Do the objects of paintings have the full memories of their time alive? If so, you can just see them (Harry, especially) asking that portrait a ton of questions...

    That would make sense
    That's certainly the behavior they've exhibited in all the books.
    Especially in OoTP when Dumbledore sends the Sirius's uncles painting looking for Author Weasley.
    Though, I'm certain theres some difference between the real person and the paintings (in attitude, memory etc).
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    Quote Originally Posted by iFroggy

    Anyway, one thing that strikes me is how is Harry going to find the Horcruxes?

    Interesting question, I didn't give it much thought & no one else raised it as well. Well, I think that Dumbledore & Harry discussed about Voldemort's life & his mentality, his obsession towards the fame & the things of famous people. Dumbledore told Harry that Voldemort made Slytherin's ring & locket as his horcruxes, and Harry know for a fact(as they both discussed) that the cup of Hufflepuff is also a horcrux by now. Voldemort can't have had any of Gryffindor's stuff as Dumbledore said that the only known thing is his sword which harry pulled out of sorting hat & which is safe inside headmaster's office, though he might be wrong. that leaves something from Ravenclaw and maybe another belonging of Hufflepuff.
    You know, as long as Hermione's with Harry, I'm not too worried!! They figured out the ways to break Dumbledore's enchantments guarding Philosopher's Stone as well, no?


    Quote Originally Posted by iFroggy

    One thing I thought about was the paintings in the headmasters office. I think it might be in the books somewhere, but can the paintings be asked questions? That is to say, does the painting of the person have the same memory as the person? That one painting in Dumbledores office (related to Black, I think... name escapes me) seemed to weigh in with his opinion from time to time and does seem to have a memory... which makes you think it's possible.

    yes, paintings can be asked questions & they have their memory. you are referring to the painting of Phineas(Sirius's great-great-great uncle). I think that the paintings are, like the ghosts, an impression of the person, which retains his/her memory when he/she was alive. So I do think that Dumbledore's painting will be a lot of help, but only if Hogwarts remain open, b'coz I seriously doubt that the paintings can be removed from the headmaster's office.


    Quote Originally Posted by iFroggy

    The Order... is McGonagall the default leader there, too? What was the plan for such circumstances, if there was even a plan? If the Horcruxes are the key and Dumbledore told Harry not to tell anyone of their meetings, are Harry, Ron, Hermionee the only ones who know about them? Being the vital key (can't eliminate Voldemort without eliminating them) that they are, it is a shame not to have more of the Order working on finding them... did he really mean for Harry not to reveal it even after death?

    well, I don't think that Dumbledore had foreseen his sudden death, so I do think that the Order is now leaderless, don't think that McGonagall will be the leader(she doesn't seem to have done much yet to convey any authority). Moody might be in for its leadership, I don't think that anyone else would be able to takeover, Lupin can't, then obviously Tonks can't, Kingsley can't(he's guarding the Muggle PM), then Aurther & Molly Weasly look quite improbable, I don't think that there are any other senior members present, with Sirius and Emmeline Vance dead.

    And I don't think that Dumbledore wanted anyone in the Order to be on the lookout for Horcruxes. Though it would've been quite right to tell McGonagall about them when she asked Harry, I sorta agreed with Harry not telling her. We know Harry is quite a sentimental guy & he was just being sentimental that Dumbledore told him not to tell anyone & he's after all "Dumbledore's man through & through". But another thing is that though I know McGonagall has always been loyal to Dumbledore & she's quite fond of Harry(though she doesn't show it), I somehow never quite found myself looking up to McGonagall for help, you know, her character hasn't been portrayed as that of someone dependable like Dumbledore or Hermione or Sirius or Lupin.


    Quote Originally Posted by iFroggy

    The whole thing came up very suddenly and is kind of perplexing. It just seems a little strange for Dumbledore to just drink this unknowing potion. Why would he do so then? As intelligent as he was, you have to say he understood his value. And while he's not the type to have someone test out things for him (probably feeling that he as strong as anyone when it comes to fighting off it's effects)... why not take a cup full of it back and analyze the stuff a bit? Have someone else take a sip and work out what it does and how to cure it. Perhaps he couldn't have. Perhaps the fluid could not leave the island. Perhaps he already knew what it did. And perhaps that is why he wanted the strongest wizard to drink it and the strongest second wizard the boat would allow to make sure that he did.

    I don't think that you could've taken the potion away, remember, Harry wasn't able to fill the goblet with water, he had to take the water from the lake eventually. So the potion was made in such a way that you'll have to drink it, I guess that only Voldemort or RAB(one who took the horcrux) knew how to get rid of the potion without drinking it, maybe some advanced dark magic or something. so Dumbledore didn't have any choice but to drink it & I think that the reason he didn't let Harry drink it is the same as to why he froze Harry under Invisibility Cloak when he was cornered by Malfoy. Because he values Harry's life to be of utmost importance because as per the prophecy, only he can vanquish Voldemort. And he knew that if he didn't freeze Harry, Harry would attack Malfoy & Death Eaters to save Dumbledore & might be killed in the struggle, thus erasing any hopes of vanquishing Voldemort.


    Quote Originally Posted by iFroggy

    Did he do it that night because he knew he would die that evening and as he was going to die already, he may as well get that potion out of the way?
    I doubt this is the case, ie., he knew of his death beforehand. I think that it was just circumstancial decision that he saw no other way to get rid of the potion covering the horcrux


    Quote Originally Posted by iFroggy
    I would guess he's going to say Regulus Black, but he may surprise us.
    Damn, you are a spoil sport Patrick!! I wish I could've surprised you but can't, I was thinking of Regulus Black as well, for 2 reasons:
    1. we haven't come across any other person whose starting initial is "R" & last initial is "B".
    2. by reading the message in the fake locket, I concluded that the tone of the message says that it was written by a Death Eater who's betrayed Voldemort and obviously who knows that he's gonna be killed quite soon. from what we've read till know, we only know of 2 people being mentioned who've betrayed Voldemort & they were Igor Karkaroff and Regulus Black.
    so I think that its Regulus Black unless Rowling lifts the curtain from another character that we haven't read about, in the 7th book.




    Quote Originally Posted by pulitz

    Either that or Snape would die because of the unbreakable vow.
    Snape wouldn't have died if Malfoy had killed Dumbledore. Snape made a vow that he'll look over Malfoy and if it looked that Malfoy wouldn't be able to complete the task, then he would do it. So had Malfoy killed Dumbledore, then the vow would've been fulfilled & Snape would have been freed from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by pulitz

    Snape didn't really seem like the "bad guy" in that even with all the opportunities he had, he didn't kill Harry. If Voldemort had been aware of part of the prophecy surely he would *want* him dead?

    I assume that you've read the chapter titled "Spinner's End" where Narcissa Malfoy & Bellatrix Lestrange go to meet Snape & where Snape explained why he hadn't killed Harry till yet. If he had done so, then I think that all would've looked at Snape as only Dumbledore trusted Snape remember, & everyone was aware of the enmity between Snape & Harry, even Dumbledore knew about that.

    And who said Voldemort doesn't want Harry dead? He didn't turn up at Godric's Hollow 15years earlier at Potters for just a social call. He wasn't giving Harry duelling lessons at his rebirth party(in end of Book4) and at the Ministry(in end of Book5). I believe that he killed Dumbledore just because of that, so he can clear his way to Harry. Voldemort knows that he can't lay his hands on Harry as long as Dumbledore is around(he came in and saved Harry at the Ministry in just the nick of time else Voldemort would've killed him then and there). That is why Voldemort decided that Dumbledore has to be killed, so he played his cards well.

    He chose Malfoy as he was the only one who had the chance to do what he was asked of besides Snape & obviously Snape is more valuable to Voldemort than Malfoy, so Malfoy was assigned the task. Secondly, Voldemort wasn't gonna loose either way, if Malfoy died then that would've been a punishment for Lucious Malfoy(Voldemort doesn't forgive mistakes, remember), and if Draco Malfoy succeeded in killing Dumbledore, then he's got Harry's main protector & a serious threat to himself out of the way!!



    what I think is that we'll see more of Fawkes the Phoenix in book7, in an important role. because its a fact that his feather is the core of both Harry's & Voldemort's wands and the reason why Harry feels the phoenix song inside him when he's in desperate situation(like in the Chamber of Secrets when he had no hope of surviving, & then at the end of HBP before his almost certain battle with Voldemort). No one else feels the phoenix song inside him/her except Harry, so there's something that we are not aware of yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defender1

    Especially in OoTP when Dumbledore sends the Sirius's uncles painting looking for Author Weasley.
    Tsk tsk, Phineas wasn't sent to look for Aurther Weasly, it was that wizard Everard(I think that was the name) who went to look for him at the Ministry as both him & Dilys(ex-headmistress of Hogwarts) are the two popular people whose portraits are present in every important wizarding building.
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    Quote Originally Posted by asp_funda
    Tsk tsk, Phineas wasn't sent to look for Aurther Weasly, it was that wizard Everard(I think that was the name) who went to look for him at the Ministry as both him & Dilys(ex-headmistress of Hogwarts) are the two popular people whose portraits are present in every important wizarding building.
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