HP && The half-wit Prince

[TheOriginalH]

So anyone read it yet?

Queued at 11:45pm Friday night with my daugter and her brother, he is just completing it (I've not been locked to it all weekend, but am nearing the end myself).

Not a bad effort at all - wonder how long until the final installment...

[carrotflowers]

I finished it yesterday. My husband just started so I can't say a word! I see you haven't either, so I still can't say a word! I liked all the books a lot, although I generally thought Phoenix was a little weaker, and I felt this was was more back on form, writing - wise.

[seanf]

... I generally thought Phoenix was a little weaker, and I felt this was was more back on form, writing - wise.

I agree that Phoenix was a little weaker. HBP was fantastic and is now my favourite after Goblet of Fire having been for so long.

Huge spoiler and question below:

What do you think: Did Dumbledore plead with Snape not to kill him or did he plead for Snape to kill him (Dumbledore knew he was going to die) so that Malfoy would not be forced to by the Death Eaters?

Keep all response in [ spoiler] [/ spoiler] tags please.

Sean

[ckita]

Keep all response in [ spoiler] [/ spoiler] tags please.

Sean

yeah..especially after this...!!

http://www.yubanet.com/artman/publis...le_22620.shtml

[biggdesign]

[carrotflowers]

Not a bad effort at all - wonder how long until the final installment...

I did read that Rowling said she won't even start writing until the new year.

[Shyflower]

Good grief! I really need to get my mind off work. When I read the title of this thread, I thought HP meant Hewlett Packard at first!

[asp_funda]

I rushed to get mine at 8pm on 16th, just about at the closing time & grabbed the last copy in the store, a gal(about my age) almost cried as she was just right behind me to get it. Had it been anything else(not chocolates), I'd have given it to her just as courtsey but not HP, no way!! I didn't drive 25km for nothing
Then it was a marathon reading from 11pm to 11am on 17th when I finished, didn't quite get it(the killing ofcourse) so re-read it in 4 hours the very same day.

I did read that Rowling said she won't even start writing until the new year.

I thought that I read it at jkrowling.com that she's already written the last chapter which has been formed in his mind for some 10 years or so!!

What do you think: Did Dumbledore plead with Snape not to kill him or did he plead for Snape to kill him (Dumbledore knew he was going to die) so that Malfoy would not be forced to by the Death Eaters?

I think that Dumbledore wasn't pleading for his life, he was too noble & a Gryffindor, remember? I think he didn't want Malfoy to kill him, didn't want him to be a killer, Malfoy was quite uncertain about killing Dumbledore as well, he almost lowered his wand

I had actually guessed Snape as the HBP, but thought it wasn't possible as I didn't think Snape was old enough to be him because of the publish date of the Potions book.

Well, if you remember, the Levicorpus spell which HBP invented is mentioned in "order of phoenix" as well when James uses it on Snape(Harry seeing this in Snape's memory during Occlumency lessons). This has never been mentioned anywhere else(unless you take into account Hermione's reference to the muggle torture scene in book-4). so I thought that this HBP was in Hogwarts at the same time when James was there, was just a guess but it was right.

As far as Dumbledores death goes, I knew it was going to happen, but I was way off on when & by who. I figured somewhere in book 7, Voldermort would finish off Dumbledore. Never would I have guessed it would be in that book and by Snape of all people.

yeah, I didn't think it would be in HBP at the hands of Snape. Ofcourse I never trusted him(particularly not after I read he informed Voldemort about the prophecy) but never thought that a low-life like Snape would kill him, Voldemort killing Dumbledore was somewhat acceptable as Voldemort being more powerful than anyone else(except Dumbledore).

I was also disappointed about Harry leaving Ginny. Harry's practically a Weasley as it is. It just works him hooking up with Ginny and those two just seem right together. I hope that those 2 get back together in book 7.
..............
Now, some may say that Harry wasn't/couldn't be in love with Ginny yet. Hell, they were only together about a month. But anyone who's been in love would have picked up on the little hints that JK was dropping everytime Harry saw Ginny kissing some other guy, showing that it was more than just a crush.

I was neither disappointed nor surprised. I thought that Ginny & Harry would click sometime in coming issues when she was introduced in book-2. as for Harry leaving Ginny, well, that wasn't a surprise at all, I thought anyone having read all 6 books would now know what kind of person Harry is, he's noble & sacrificing. he doesn't want his loved ones to be hurt, he's already suffered a lot(his parents, Sirius, Dumbledore). if you remember, he didn't want anyone to come with him to Ministry in "order of phoenix" b'coz he didn't want them hurt, he tried to stop them at the ministry entrance as well. then he gave Ron, Hermione & Ginny his Felix when he was going to hunt the Horcrux with Dumbledore, even though his need was dire as what he was gonna do was dangerous despite Dumbledore with him, why? b'coz he wanted them(Ron, Hermione & Ginny) to be OK. so he doesn't want Ginny hurt in his pursuit of Voldemort, Ron & Hermione are a different case, they are the best friends & he know their capabilities as they have been with him in almost all dangers since book-1.

Honestly I believe (because of the amount of emphasis put on it by JK/Dumbledore in HBP) that love (aka Ginny) would be rather crucial to helping Harry defeat Voldermort.

well, no, the "love" referred by Dumbledore is not Ginny but the emotion. its the "love" which Harry's mum had for him b'coz of which she sacrificed her life to save Harry; b'coz of which Voldemort's curse failed and he wasn't able to touch Harry without hurting himself(in book-1). this is the "love" which flows in Harry for his parents, Sirius, his friends, b'coz of which Voldemort was not able to possess Harry(in "order of phoenix"). its this "love" which even Voldemort knows but detests and don't believe to be powerful, the fact mentioned again & again since book-1 and solidified in HBP when he comes to Dumbledore asking for the job of DADA teacher(when Dumbledore takes Harry in his memory), where he calls Dumbledore a fool to believe in the power of "love"(or something to that effect).
also, if you remember, it was his "love" & loyalty to Dumbledore which brought Fawkes for the aid of Harry in book-2 & Dumbledore said that "he'll only be gone from Hogwarts when none there are loyal to him", which is again repeated by Harry to Scrimgeour in HBP as Harry believes Dumbledore to be still with him just like his parents & Sirius.

I think that its been mentioned in other stories & movies as well, as in StarWars where it was his love for Luke which made Annakin kill the emperor and made him come back as a spirit to Luke, it was their love for Luke which made Yoda & Obi-Wan come back as spirits to him. Same in LOTR, it was their love for the good that kept Aragorn-Gimli-Legolas going on & on even after the fellowship broke, it was his love for Frodo that kept Sam going on with him till the end, even when Frodo deserted him.

[seanf]

I think that Dumbledore wasn't pleading for his life ...

Sorry, I should have phrased my question better. Dumbledore was not afraid of death ("... to the well-organised mind, death is but the next great adventure") so what I was asking was whether he was pleading for Snape not to turn fully to the "dark side" by committing murder. However, the more I think about it the more I believe that Dumbledore was pleading with Snape to kill him to save Draco from being forced to. I also think we may have heard the "conversation" (non-verbal) between them when Harry was making Dumbledore drink the potion.

Sean

[asp_funda]

Sorry, I should have phrased my question better. Dumbledore was not afraid of death ("... to the well-organised mind, death is but the next great adventure")

yes, that's right.

However, the more I think about it the more I believe that Dumbledore was pleading with Snape to kill him to save Draco from being forced to.

Precisely that's what I understood & that's what I said!!

My first impression when I read that dumbledore was pleading was that he didn't...want to believe, I guess, that snape was really still associated with voldemort

well, that's what I thought at first but I read it again & then I thought otherwise.

[carrotflowers]

Yeah, I don't miss (as I heard him referred to in another forum) CAPSLOCK Harry at all. As for your question,

MORE SPOILER BELOW
This is one thing I did not like about the book. I felt it went too far, having him do him in. It to me even seemed unbelievable, rang a little false. But I have read the pretty good interpretation you mention, that he was pleading for Snape to do it rather than spare him. I lean that way because it's way beneath D to plead for his life. Some people have even suggested that D made an Unbreakable Vow and that was why he trusted him. I guess that makes sense although I don't think that D would feel the need to resort to that. At any rate I was totally unspoiled and 100% shocked when it happened. Even after he said Avada Kedavra I still thought that it wasn't real, that D had another trick up his sleeve. And who the HBP turned out to be, I didn't see that coming either. That twist I liked.

I think GOF is still my favorite, I love the Triwizard Tournament!

[carrotflowers]

Goodness gracious, that reads like an Onion article. Ha, ha.

[Defender1]

And I thought I was a fast reader...

Finished it yesterday ~7pm.
Woulda been done saturday, but my finance was over for most of the day.

I had actually guessed Snape as the HBP, but thought it wasn't possible as I didn't think Snape was old enough to be him because of the publish date of the Potions book.
As far as Dumbledores death goes, I knew it was going to happen, but I was way off on when & by who. I figured somewhere in book 7, Voldermort would finish off Dumbledore. Never would I have guessed it would be in that book and by Snape of all people. I was also disappointed about Harry leaving Ginny. Harry's practically a Weasley as it is. It just works him hooking up with Ginny and those two just seem right together. I hope that those 2 get back together in book 7.
Honestly I believe (because of the amount of emphasis put on it by JK/Dumbledore in HBP) that love (aka Ginny) would be rather crucial to helping Harry defeat Voldermort.
Now, some may say that Harry wasn't/couldn't be in love with Ginny yet. Hell, they were only together about a month. But anyone who's been in love would have picked up on the little hints that JK was dropping everytime Harry saw Ginny kissing some other guy, showing that it was more than just a crush.
But anyway, these are just my speculations, and as Dumbledore said, I could be way off.

[seanf]

I was also disappointed about Harry leaving Ginny. Harry's practically a Weasley as it is. It just works him hooking up with Ginny and those two just seem right together. I hope that those 2 get back together in book 7

That continues the theme of a love and sacrifice though. Harry sacrifices his happiness for Ginny's safety - an act of true love.

As for them getting back together, I do think that JK Rowling will gave Harry some happiness at then end, but I have a horrible feeling she will kill Ginny in the final book. Ron and Hermione aside, JK kills everyone Harry becomes truly close to.

Maybe I'll get it. I only read the first and second though, is that a problem?

I would definitely recommend reading them in order or it will leave huge gaps in the plot or spoil the earlier books if you decide to read them at a later date.

Sean

[Defender1]

As for them getting back together, I do think that JK Rowling will gave Harry some happiness at then end, but I have a horrible feeling she will kill Ginny in the final book. Ron and Hermione aside, JK kills everyone Harry becomes truly close to.

Hmmm, ya I see your point.
I would be thoroughly pissed if that's the case.
I want a happy ending dammit.
I could see that not happening in the hopes of changing that theme as Voldermot is defeated.
Sort of goes with the old saying "it's darkest just before sunrise" or something like that.
Also another reason why I don't see (hope!) Ginny die is Dumbledore's death seemed to me to be one helluva climax. The epitome of loss for Harry.
So I'm hoping things will get better in book 7.

[asp_funda]

As for them getting back together, I do think that JK Rowling will gave Harry some happiness at then end, but I have a horrible feeling she will kill Ginny in the final book. Ron and Hermione aside, JK kills everyone Harry becomes truly close to.

yeah, I have the same feeling, as Rowling did mention that the killings aren't over yet, more will die, its just the beginning.

I would be thoroughly pissed if that's the case.
I want a happy ending dammit.
.....
Also another reason why I don't see (hope!) Ginny die is Dumbledore's death seemed to me to be one helluva climax. The epitome of loss for Harry.

well, Rowling has nasty ways of surprising us, no? HBP is the proof to that!!

So I'm hoping things will get better in book 7.

I wouldn't bank on it!! some happiness indeed but in the end maybe!!

Wow, that's just horrible.
I'm suprised he wasn't shot.

I'm glad I get my HP books at the local supermarket.
Screw B&Ns massive crouds.

Order them online & you'll be more safe, no more ruddy crowd to spoil the fun!!

I wish we'd learned a little moreabout why he thought he was other than she smelled like flowers and was funny.

well, if you've been careful, you'd have noticed that in Slughorn's first class, the love-potion smelt like the flowers to Harry & as Hermione said, it smelt different to each person according to what attracted them!!

Off Topic:

First time I've ever used the spoiler tags...very neat

I didn't even know they existed until Sean raised the curtains in this thread!!

The main reason I support the theory that Snape did it out of request and not betrayl is, as stated, Dumbledore would not beg for his life.
He was begging for Snape to take his life.
There's something that I'm sure will be revealed in the next book shedding light on this point.

you are being just over optimistic, no?

But my main reason is that Snape just being that evil all along rings false to me, it's just so nasty, too nasty I feel for the ton*e of these books. Like if it were true, any time you reread the previous books, any time Snape came up you'd just be sickened. I felt in OOTP, when we get a glimpse of Snape's past through the Occlumency lessons, part of the point was to make him more human and complex and sympathetic. For the point to just be to turn around and say nope, Snape's just that evil doesn't seem right.

well, you won't believe Snape to be evil even when he informed Voldemort about the prophecy? then I think you won't consider Wormtail to be wrong even though he betrayed James & Lily Potter. that part of his memory in OOTP was just an attempt to make his image a bit good in the eyes of Harry, & it did work. But I remember Sirius said in the beginning of OOTP that there are some marks that don't come off!!
Then also, Voldemort doesn't seem like a person who wouldn't come to know of someone who is betraying him.

[asp_funda]

I'm surprised no-one's raised this yet!!
Who took the horcrux(Slytherin's locket) and marked himself as R.A.B.?? any thoughts? I have a person in mind & might have some reasons to justify of him being that R.A.B.



will Rowling continue after the 7th book?
I do think she will, come to think from just a business point of view, its been a money spinner for her which has hit a jackpot everytime. it made her from nothing to everything(richest woman in UK worth $1billion). so doing away with something that good just seems like mad to me, when there's definitely scope for more. she says that she'll try her hand at something else, but I don't think that would be a wise move, nothing says that those other writings of her would have atleast half of HP's success, its may happen(maybe become more popular than HP) or it may not happen, its a risk, but HP is already a jackpot.
Then I think that people won't sit quiet if she decides to stop after the 7th book.

[TheOriginalH]

will Rowling continue after the 7th book?
I do think she will, come to think from just a business point of view, its been a money spinner for her which has hit a jackpot everytime. it made her from nothing to everything(richest woman in UK worth $1billion). so doing away with something that good just seems like mad to me, when there's definitely scope for more. she says that she'll try her hand at something else, but I don't think that would be a wise move, nothing says that those other writings of her would have atleast half of HP's success, its may happen(maybe become more popular than HP) or it may not happen, its a risk, but HP is already a jackpot.
Then I think that people won't sit quiet if she decides to stop after the 7th book.

I think that Rowling's passion for Potter, for mystery and for magic is stronger than her passion for cash (and it can really afford it to be with that amount in the bank). I suspect that (imho correctly) Potter and friends will be forced to live on in peoples imaginations rather than in print after the next book. It's a stronger decision to make, but I think she'll make it, and carve her place in literary history as a result.

[carrotflowers]

well, if you've been careful, you'd have noticed that in Slughorn's first class, the love-potion smelt like the flowers to Harry & as Hermione said, it smelt different to each person according to what attracted them!!

Actually that was what I was referring to when I said I wished we had a little more to go on than just that she smelled like flowers. Of course, Rowling telegraphed that they would end up together since Book 1 practically, but I still wanted to see their love develop a little before Harry just started fantasizing about her. Call me a romantic but I like a foundation for my romances, some scene in this book where they had some meaningful conversation or something. But this is just a tiny complaint because all I really care about is the magic!

About RAB, I have been trying NOT to think about it because I would like to be surprised! OTOH I have been thinking of rereading the first 6 soon, to see if I can figure it out. I think Rowling has said that if you read carefully you'd figure it out.

About the evil bit, yeah, that was definitely evil. I think I am making a distinction in my own mind between being evil in your past and being unbelievably evil in the present. Snape was always a serious jerk, but killing D was such an act of badness that my mouth was open for 5 minutes.

[asp_funda]

Actually that was what I was referring to when I said I wished we had a little more to go on than just that she smelled like flowers. Of course, Rowling telegraphed that they would end up together since Book 1 practically, but I still wanted to see their love develop a little before Harry just started fantasizing about her. Call me a romantic but I like a foundation for my romances, some scene in this book where they had some meaningful conversation or something. But this is just a tiny complaint because all I really care about is the magic!

yeah well, I'd sure have liked a bit more on HP & Ginny but then, HP is not a romantic story, its about "love"(romance{boy-girl} is a small part of it) for your closest ones, about good & bad.

About RAB, I have been trying NOT to think about it because I would like to be surprised! OTOH I have been thinking of rereading the first 6 soon, to see if I can figure it out. I think Rowling has said that if you read carefully you'd figure it out.

If you just read 5th book carefully and the 6th one, then I think you'll know who is RAB(I think its him). He's not mentioned in any earlier books. Try guessing who he is, its not that hard(you need to put 2 & 2 together like Snape & the Ministry).

About the evil bit, yeah, that was definitely evil. I think I am making a distinction in my own mind between being evil in your past and being unbelievably evil in the present. Snape was always a serious jerk, but killing D was such an act of badness that my mouth was open for 5 minutes.

yeah, I didn't believe it first either, Dumbledore dead, leave alone Snape killing him. That's why I read it again as I don't think I quite digested it in first go!!

I think that Rowling's passion for Potter, for mystery and for magic is stronger than her passion for cash (and it can really afford it to be with that amount in the bank). I suspect that (imho correctly) Potter and friends will be forced to live on in peoples imaginations rather than in print after the next book. It's a stronger decision to make, but I think she'll make it, and carve her place in literary history as a result.

well, what I said was just a practical view of life.

[Dylan B]

If you just read 5th book carefully and the 6th one, then I think you'll know who is RAB(I think its him). He's not mentioned in any earlier books. Try guessing who he is, its not that hard(you need to put 2 & 2 together like Snape & the Ministry).

Who do you do you think it is?

[MaxS]

Maybe I'll get it. I only read the first and second though, is that a problem?

[OutForLunch]

Maybe I\'ll get it. I only read the first and second though, is that a problem?

yes

[Defender1]

Maybe I'll get it. I only read the first and second though, is that a problem?

Definately don't read 6 until you've read 3-5.

[ses5909]

Bought it yesertday and have only started reading it to my son before bedtime. Won't pick it up for myself until I finished all of my work. The last book that came out I read it in a day... I don't have time for that kind of distraction right now unfortunately. But when I do... it will be wonderful.