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  1. #1
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    Website Design is more than that

    Days a go friend of mine came to me, and ask me to teach him a bit of Photoshop. I thought he was going to ask about what this tools for and how to use it, and that's it. But the fact was, he expected more than that, he wanted me to show him some of my previous works, then i showed him some, and it gets annoying when he started ask, how can i have that effects, or how did i make this and that. Then I started think "ok, what does he want from me." But because he's a friend of mine, i give him a bit tutorial, but i keep some of my secret tips tho .
    The next day he came again, this time asking about Flash and Dreamweaver. Oh no.....
    and a bounch of annoying question asked.
    Then i asked him why he wanted to learn these things,
    and the answer was suprised me, "because i want to earn money like you, looks easy to get it."
    Oh i was pissed off . He thought by only learn those applications he can be a web designer and expected good money.
    what a short thinking he had. i spent thousand hours & dollars in learn things that i need in this area, and i know, that this area is more than how to use that applications.
    It's more challanging than that.
    isn't it?
    Keep diggin' guys!

  2. #2
    What's HTML?
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    Of course it's more challenging than that, so don't get your feathers ruffled. Explain to your friend what is all involved with building a website. Now I'm talking about a website here, not a web page, anyone can make a web page. I'm sure your friend will be shocked when you explain all the designing, browser rules, coding, aesthetics, and everything else we do on a daily basis.

    Also, why not use your friends new interest to your advantage? Teach them some HTML or graphics software. Later on when you're swamped you can hire them to help you out.

    As far as "revealing secrets" goes, there aren't many secrets to reveal. If you've done it, someone else can too, and they will, so why hide it? When I first started out I was starving for information, but not many people would share their knowledge and "secrets". I eventually did gain their knowledge and even some of their "secrets", it just took a lot of reading and testing. I now make it a point to help out people whenever I can with little tidbits of knowledge and experience. They may not appreciate it, but it sure does make me feel good.
    Ryan Kuhle - A Proud Advisor - Got Questions? Just Ask!
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  3. #3
    Node mutilating coot timnz's Avatar
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    When it is your friend though, just in effect trying to copy you, sometimes it is extremely fun not to tell them how to do things.

    Example, I have a friend, he isn't particulary smart at the best of times, if he sends me a message through IM, it usually looks like spaghetti, yet he has been taking typing at school for 3 years. He doesn't know how to reinstall Windows, his uncle had to show him how to defrag, he subsequently 'forgot', I told him to go to a website when he got home at school, I get a message asking what that website was. At the beginning of this year he said he wanted to 'get good at computers'. So far he hasn't done anything, and I keep on answering spam every time he hits a problem, he forgot to explain to his mother that you don't turn off a computer by hitting the power button. And now he says he is going to get a CD-RW. What am I going to do? I'm going to let him do his research, find the best product, go out, buy the product, try to install it, try installing software to burn cds, let him try to use the software, watch him create coasters. and I have told anyone he could ask for help to not help him as well. Why? you ask, because you get sick of people pestering you on how to do everything, that you may as well do it for them anyway, as it would be easier. I'm not telling him anything because I want him to learn that in order to do these things you first need the knowledge, and he can't go on in life trying to do things, asking me all the time, when he needs to actually learn these things for himself. Otherwise he is not going to get anywhere in life, and face up to life's tough realities.

    And yeah, my friend is a dummy, as if that wasn't already apparent

    </rant>

  4. #4
    SitePoint Zealot
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    Imitation is the best form of flattery....

  5. #5
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    Or maybe i can charge him for hourly rate tutorials
    hehehehe

  6. #6
    SitePoint Evangelist mad-onion's Avatar
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    I agree people asking you about things all the time gets very annoying... i basically say to myself when people ask a question would this person be happy to answer a question if i had one about something they know stuff about! If the answer is yet then i will normally help them...if its no then i let them down gently!!

    And timnz the wanna be "computa hazor" in 5 minutes thing really racks me off... you get these messages all the time on icq mainly from people at school "eh how do you hack bro" the standard reply to that is to list a number of semi related books from amazon and say start by buying and reading all of these! I dont think anyone has followed my advice and if they do by the time they finish i wont know them anymore..
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  7. #7
    Node mutilating coot timnz's Avatar
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    Exactly mad-onion, if I say to my friend from above what to do, he never does it, and then comes back a day later asking me why the thing still doesn't work! You can't win either way in some cases, but of course in others, some gentle wise, informing of the truth (ie, you actually will have to do what I say, not just read what i say to do), can do the trick nicely. But in my experience with 'friend' anything I try to do always fails. I've even tried doing to his house and physically showing/making him do the things I tell him, but the next day he has forgotten everything again.

  8. #8
    SitePoint Evangelist mad-onion's Avatar
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    Tim, is your avatar meant to be shipley?
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  9. #9
    Node mutilating coot timnz's Avatar
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    What? can't you see, it is me in a personal photograph, I had a professional photographer take that you know. How dare you insinuate that it even slightly resembles shipley , at least I don't have crooked teeth like clark! (not that clark has crooked teeth in photos!)

  10. #10
    SitePoint Evangelist mad-onion's Avatar
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    You should get a job impersonating the ship!
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  11. #11
    Node mutilating coot timnz's Avatar
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    Didn't I tell you that was my night job on, *wait while tim thinks of red light district in auckland* queen street, or in ponsonby (??)

  12. #12
    SitePoint Evangelist mad-onion's Avatar
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    K'rd and Hunters Corner are the big whore hangouts up here!

    K'rd joins queen street!! Sometimes (when i can escape my parents watchful eye) we go go driving down krd and queen street on like sat. night... if you ever up in auckland contact me and ill show you the sights <wink><wink>

    Anyway if we want to continue this convo maybe pm would be better!
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  13. #13
    I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaack! Fluffykins's Avatar
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    Originally posted by mojomaru
    Or maybe i can charge him for hourly rate tutorials
    hehehehe
    Hey, there's a lot of money to be made teaching web design software! I agree with everyone that there's a lot more to being a web designer than knowing the software. Try not to worry too much

    Ady
    v-technologies - Freelance Goodness.

  14. #14
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy
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    I understand this is more of a vent post... well here it comes.

    I have been in the Graphics and Print industry for over 6 years. In all that time, I've never had the disrespect and obnoxious clients as I have in my short life of web design and development. I am SICK and TIRED of people not giving a web designer the same respect and professional attitude they would give an advertising firm. Would you go back to an advertising firm and say, "Well, I kinda like it but can you change the background to black, make our logo really big over here, and add this piece of clipart?" H*LL NO! They would laugh you out of their office saying "What the **$#%^ do you pay us for?!?!"

    And how many of you have heard this line from a potential client???? "Well, my 14 year old nephew knows how to design web pages, so I'm just going to let him do it."

    There is a BIG difference between a DESIGNER and some kid who knows HTML...What about Color, hue and saturation, balance, layout principles, ART HISTORY, TYPOGRAPHY (that's one you seldom hear on the web)...

    Anyway, I understand with so many unprofessionals out there claiming to be 'web designers' it's not going to get any better... PLEASE if all you know is Dreamweaver or HTML - get some background in Graphic Design, Art History, and Page Layout - it'll be the best thing for your career and it will save the rest of us our reputations...

  15. #15
    Node mutilating coot timnz's Avatar
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    hehe, this has turned out to be a bit of a rant thread, but anyway,

    beley, one of the most annoying things I have found, is clients that try to tell you what to do, like you have said, it wouldn't happen in any other professions. Perhaps we should change our names to consultants, because in a lot of cases that is all we are to some clients, consultants they can consult and in the end over rule, because they want their site using all the fancy gadgets and plugins everywhere so it only works in one browser... and then you give them your informed opinion, does that count? not usually, and in the worst circumstances you end up with a site you feel embarassed to put on your portfoilo.

  16. #16
    SitePoint Wizard iTec's Avatar
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    i like this thread... quality sitepoint forum @ its best!!! :0)

    Got a question/answer for you guys.... think back to the first problem you ever had with a computer... how did you sort it out? i started using computers about 10 years ag (probably more) and im only 19.. Commodore Amiga 2000 with extended memory ;o) ... so whad i do when the stupid commy wouldnt do what i told it?? i would play with it, click a button, see what it did, memorise what it did and then hit another button till i found the answer (still do it to this day) if i didnt understand something i would play with it... windows (ive reformated about 1600000000 times since 95 for this very reason) I learnt asp, how by getting some code, looking at it and figuring out what it does.... if i delete this line, what happens....

    my advise is to lokk the annoying son of a b in a room with a computer and not let him out till he has a PH.d.. i did this with my dad, and it works, if you tell them how, they forget it, if they figure out how, they remember it...

    handy tip of the day...

  17. #17
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    What're you guys talking about? I took a 2 week course in frontpage so now I'm a professional web designer. I even got a little certificate with my name on it.

    Come visit my business. Its on geocities.
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
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  18. #18
    SitePoint Wizard iTec's Avatar
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    whats wrong with geocities??? my first website... and i bet you yours to... were on geocities so ;op

  19. #19
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Actually I made my first site before geocities existed... so ;op right back at ya
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
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  20. #20
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    Originally posted by aspen
    What're you guys talking about? I took a 2 week course in frontpage so now I'm a professional web designer. I even got a little certificate with my name on it.

    Come visit my business. Its on geocities.
    Wow, Good on You mate! , as you can see, actually we're not talking about the applications we're using in Web Design.
    Coz When we're talking about Web Design, it's not only about The application. But if we're talking about building a web page, that's a different kind of thing.

  21. #21
    :) delemtri's Avatar
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    beley: I don't mean to start anything, but again (I think we had a sort of mini-discussion about this in another thread) your post about "14-year-old web designers" is both inaccurate and slightly offensive.

  22. #22
    What's HTML?
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    Delemtri,

    Words targeted "against you" shouldn't offend you. I happen to agree with Beley. Don't get me wrong, I have read your other posts and discussions and you are extremely smart and you know what you're talking about, you're one of the few 14 year olds.

    Too many people hop on the Internet, play with FrontPage for an hour and think they can design websites. Just like many younger people who have had some success and instantly think "I'm great, nobody should try to help me or recommend solutions because I know all". Don't laugh, I was talking to someone just last week who had this exact attitude.

    I've been on the Internet for 4 years and I have been pretty successful, but am always open to new suggestions and advice. Learn and grow...
    Ryan Kuhle - A Proud Advisor - Got Questions? Just Ask!
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  23. #23
    :) delemtri's Avatar
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    I understand your point. I don't claim to be a great webdesigner, or knowledgeable, or intelligent; I just don't like it when people close their minds off to the possibility that someone my age might be.

  24. #24
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    I think someone didn't pick up on my sarcasm.. oh well try harder next time.
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
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  25. #25
    SitePoint Evangelist mad-onion's Avatar
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    I picked up on it aspen...i think most people here know you are ALOT more experienced and skilled than all those silly teachers they send on 2 week frontpage courses (my school does that!), makes me cringe!
    Some of them even have the nerve to talk down to me about webdesign/development because they have a little piece of paper and i am self taught...
    </rant>
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