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  1. #101
    ********* Callithumpian silver trophy freakysid's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Polymath

    1)This morning I saw one of the most unique things, I saw a car with the license plate PTR 426L. Can someone calculate the odds of that happening? They must be astronomical!
    That's my car !!!

  2. #102
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by freddydoesphp

    I guess that is what makes us different, you believe this, I don't. I mean so are you saying that every kid with asmtha should pray to god because they might have a physical reaction to prayer that will suddenly heal them from asmtha? If that was the case then no kid would ever have asmtha right?
    Didn't say that - it's all 'bout Faith bro!
    In a sinless world their would be no sickness - the wages of sin are death, get it?

    And if God can cure aids, please show me a case where someone has had a physical reaction to prayer which cured them of the AIDS virus. If this was in fact truth, don't you think every aids clinic in the country would be forcing their patients to pray all day long?

    God doesn't cure cancer, healthly living and cemo/radiation cures cancer, sorry dude
    Well, I met a guy about 3 weeks ago who would beg to differ as he has seen hundreds of AIDS orphans healed in Africa (Uganda to be exact) + God has used him to heal people from Cancer.
    Maybe he is a liar - Hmmm.

    If you force people to pray to a God they don't believe - will they be healed?! - I doubt it!

    Anyway - it's the weekend, read you on Monday! (works over - goin' home, yippee!)

    Peace.
    Out.

  3. #103
    Dumb PHP codin' cat
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    I met a guy yesterday who said he could make a million dollars out of hundred for me. Point is - If we believe everything everyone tell us where would we be? Its cool for you to believe it just seems a little naive to me. If I was to witness with my own eyes, without a doubt of any natural influence someone being healed of aids, I might be interested, but if this phenomen was really going on, don't you think the western media would be eating it up and we would see it all over television?
    Please don't PM me with questions.
    Use the forums, that is what they are here for.

  4. #104
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Err no, coz they (The Media) hate Christianity.
    Maybe one day they (The Media) will (cover amazing miracles without sceptisism)? When God really opens the throttle (on his power) - he is preparing us (the church) at the mo...

    BYE!
    Last edited by z7; Jul 16, 2001 at 08:33.

  5. #105
    Fried Gold Polymath's Avatar
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    freakysid.
    LOL !!!

  6. #106
    Xbox why have you forsaken me? moospot's Avatar
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    What a thread! I'm gonna ramble for a few minutes. So bear with me if my thoughts are unorganized.

    There can be many things said for and against organized religion. I personally believe that we all use our own energy to enforce our will. This is linked to karma in a way as you basically get out of things what you put in. This is similar to prayer, but some people need an idol to worship instead of a belief system. Wiccans or pagans may call this spell casting. Indeed, many people have different names and differnt ways of achieving the same goals.

    Can the wiccan who wishes something and casts a spell to achieve something be any different from the person who prays for something? The goal is the same, the beliefs are not. I do take part to the fact that most people won't open their minds and accept that people are different. Every person has unique needs and beliefs and what may be right for Joe is not necessarily right for Bob. Why is this so hard to accept? Why are there 50 million muslims out there if they are all going to burn in hell? I am sure they are wondering the same thing about christians. So who is right? Nobody? Everybody?

    The whole point of religion is to become spiritually liberated. This may mean different things to different people. Most christians, I believe, have a fear of hell and therefore will not (or can not) conceive of something outside of their little world that they live in. What about these so-called holy wars. Why do people fight in god's name against others who are doing the same thing? God's army vs God's army. Makes sense doesnt it?

    ok enough from me, though i could go on for hours about all this. too many debates. no one ever wins. everyone is always right while everyone else is always wrong. Its the same story over and over again. Can't we all just get along?

  7. #107
    SitePoint Enthusiast The Criminologist's Avatar
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    I have read through this and I recall something my pastor once said.

    Religion and spirituality is NOT the same thing. One is the means of gaining the other.

    If your religion involves praying to accomplish a goal, you are creating your own method of obtaining spirituality. You believe that prayer changes things.

    If your religion involves running naked through the trees and dancing wildly during the beltane fires, you are doing something that you believe will accomplish a goal. That would be your spirituality.

    If your religion involves mixing chemical "A" with chemical "B" to accomplish a goal, then that is what gives you your spirituality.

    Don't forget, it is not everyone's spiritual belief that we will be destroyed if we do not please a "God".

    Some people's spirituality rests in the fact that a change will happen and it will be for the betterment of all. And if this change doesnt happen because of the laziness or lack of effort by the individual, the results are looked on as detrimental and hurts the person inside.

    Science is very much a religion. It is a method of acting upon ones feelings to accomplish a goal. And in accomplishing this goal, they feel good about themselves and their existance is justified.
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  8. #108
    Dumb PHP codin' cat
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    Maybe one day they will? (When God really opens the throttle - he is preparing us at the mo...)
    z7 this is the kind of attitude that makes me wonder about religion. Please don't threaten people with your beliefs. You may believe that but not everyone does. I won't bore you with my beliefs but its pretty sad that you are going to try and convince us that god is really going "open the throttle" as you like to put it.
    Please don't PM me with questions.
    Use the forums, that is what they are here for.

  9. #109
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Polymath
    Plebius:
    Who knows what consciousness is, and what it affects? It does seem that the act of observing influences the outcome of a quantum experiment. But this may well be a phenomenon of a different sort. If scientists are seriously postulating that the universe is really 12 dimensional, then the tiny slice of it that is our view is insufficient to make any decent judgement about this.
    Quite right, it's all theoretical. Though, considering science is so into having "evidence" for everything, they sure do say a lot of things are "impossible" without much evidence.

    Originally posted by Polymath
    1)This morning I saw one of the most unique things, I saw a car with the license plate PTR 426L. Can someone calculate the odds of that happening? They must be astronomical!

    2)The other night I got a weird feeling that something had happened to my sister. Just then the phone rang....it was for my girlfriend, from her parents, nothing to do with my sister.
    A couple months ago, I had the feeling that something bad was happening to a friend of mine. So I drove by my friends house and there were about 8 cop cars on that street. Nothing to do with my friend, though.

    Originally posted by Polymath
    The point here is that calculating the odds after something has happened means nothing. Rather like the TV magicians who claim to stop watches. If they have an audience of millions, then the law of averages says some (maybe five or ten) viewers will have a watch stop working, or a clock on the wall. The next day you see some guy in the paper, saying 'Wow, my watch stopped, that guy must be able to do magic.'
    Well, is the guy who stops watches able to PICK out the specific people whose watches stop?

    Originally posted by Polymath
    Now, if everyones' watch stopped he might have a case, but hardly anyone's did, and it is just the law of averages.
    So what you are describing is merely this: such experiences have to happen to someone, this time it was you.
    By the law of averages, Plebius, something like you describe with the e-mail must happen everyday. Some guy thinks about a friend who he hasn't heard of for a year, and the next day he gets a phone call from the friend. But think about the amount of thoughts you have every day. When you think 'Mmm, bacon!", does a bacon sandwich pop through the letterbox?
    Ok... I have MANY examples of experiences like that, ok. YOu can spout about 'law of averages' all you want, or you can admit that maybe something's going on that you can't explain yet. Tell me, if a guy constantly thinks "ohhhh... girls hate me.... i'll never find a girl who likes me..." is he likely to get a girlfriend any time soon? Probably not.

    Originally posted by Polymath
    Now in order to make your thing with the e-mail have any relevance to my mind (i.e. to validate what you are saying about the influence of thought) you would have to note down every instance of every predictive, previously unsubstantiable thought you have, and compare how much of it corresponded to subsequent events.
    Ok, every time I have been ABSOLUTELY SURE when I had a thought like that, it turned out to be true. In 8th grade I was sitting at home one night, and I suddenly KNEW that this one girl I liked was using LSD for the first time, and I started to feel somewhat strange. I had NO prior knowledge about this, and the next day I found out it was true. I don't "know" exactly how it works, though I have my theories, but I know that science can't explain it yet, so it's automatically false.

    Originally posted by Polymath
    The point is that for all the millions of examples like the phone call that wasn't about my sister, or the people whose watches don't stop, there are a bare handful of people who say "But listen to this! What is the likelihood of this happening? Must be ten million to one." They are correct, maybe ten million to one is about right. But it is just law of averages. Examples of weird coincidences not happening don't get noted down, they are unremarkable.
    So for your one example of the e-mail, I could probably come up with ten million like the one about the phone call. And there will always be millions more examples of it not being true.
    Funny, a couple months ago, I learned how to get people to call me just by thinking about them. True, it doesn't work 100% of the time, and sometimes a different person calls, but somebody usually calls within 30 minutes (I don't get many calls at ALL, so it couldn't be "coincidence"). Also, have you ever had the phone ring and you knew who it was before you answered?

    Just stop for a moment, and think of ALL the times in your life when you've thought about somebody and they called you on the phone. Then think about somebody you want to call you.

    Ok, so it's a "coincidence" you say? Well, thinking about somebody and having them call you on the phone is a "coincidence" that every single person I've ever met has had happen to them.

    Just remember, there once was a time when people thought the sun revolved around the earth. Naturally, it will be a shock when science DOES discover what is really behind such phenomenon rather than writing off genuine experiences as "probablistic".

    I think it's about time for a ham sandwich.

  10. #110
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
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    1)This morning I saw one of the most unique things, I saw a car with the license plate PTR 426L. Can someone calculate the odds of that happening? They must be astronomical!
    Oh... and that analogy breaks down... because you didn't *know* what the license plate was before you read it.

  11. #111
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by freddydoesphp
    z7 this is the kind of attitude that makes me wonder about religion. Please don't threaten people with your beliefs. You may believe that but not everyone does. I won't bore you with my beliefs but its pretty sad that you are going to try and convince us that god is really going "open the throttle" as you like to put it.
    Almost as sad as you dissing me for my beliefs!?

  12. #112
    Fried Gold Polymath's Avatar
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    Plebius:
    Well in that case you have me stumped.
    I have had some weird experiences myself in a place called Todmorden, which up until a few years ago was the epicentre of UK UFO activity.
    So weird, in fact, that one of my best friends who lives there and saw the same thing as I did (a chupacabra, we think), said if I mentioned it to anyone and said 'well, my friend saw it too', he would deny it. I wasn't too happy about that, but what can you do?
    I don't deny there are things we can't explain, 99% of weird stuff generally can be explained...but I can't explain seeing chupacabras any more than what you said.

  13. #113
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Isn't the 'chupacabra' off of Dexter's Lab?

    Come on Polymath - spill the beans...

  14. #114
    Dumb PHP codin' cat
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    z7 - its not quite the same.

    You are saying that one day God will come and "really open the throttle", which by the way I have no idea what this means. "Open the throttle" does that mean God is going to punish the non-believers upon his return? If this is the case, then it is exactly what I am saying about shoving your religion in others' faces. Your statement says to me that one day I will find myself in real trouble when the "thottle opens". So yes that is threatening and lame. If you believe that all us non-believers will someday pay the ultimate price for our lack of belief, then you are threatening each and everyone of us who does not share in your belief. I haven't heard one person spout off threatening and absurd statements like that, for either side. Believe what you want, but don't try to instill paranoia in us, keep your ill thoughts to yourself.
    Please don't PM me with questions.
    Use the forums, that is what they are here for.

  15. #115
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Ah - see Freddy, you have got completly the wrong end of the stick.
    Yes - I admit I didn't explain that one very well but it was 17:30 and I was leaving the office.

    I mean't opening the throttle on his HEALING POWER actually - the power that heals the sick, gives blind people sight, deaf people hearing, got rid of my asthma - raised Christ from the dead?

    DON'T PUT WORDS INTO MY MOUTH.

  16. #116
    Dumb PHP codin' cat
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    I mean't opening the throttle on his HEALING POWER actually - the power that heals the sick, gives blind people sight, deaf people hearing, got rid of my asthma - raised Christ from the dead?
    Oh sorry then, he must of skipped our house. My sister is blind from diabetes, my dad has parkinson's and is a homosexual. And what was that?? Oh yeah my mom goes to church EVERYDAY So sorry if I don't share the same enthusiasm as you but I am a realist. God didn't cure you of asmtha my friend, nature did.

    So let me get this straight then, so when this day does come, does that mean only the believers will be cured of thier illnesses? //me confused!
    Please don't PM me with questions.
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  17. #117
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Not all Churches allow God to move in power - some even frown upon it!?
    As I said before - I can't explain why some people get healed and others don't, think it has something to do with faith...
    Interestingly they get a lot more healings in places like Africa and India, as the faith levels are much higher.
    This is quite a complex issue - sometimes healing can be blocked by unforgiveness, or it can be tied to generational sin...(spiritual stuff)

    ANYWAY... to your question about "..when this day does come, does that mean only the believers will be cured of thier illnesses?" - no, a number of the people healed in the new-testament were not believers.
    Even today people bring non-christian freinds to meetings and when the power hits, they get healed of stuff!

    Oh, and by the way... JESUS HEALED ME OF ASTHMA

  18. #118
    Dumb PHP codin' cat
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    I find myself contradicting myself here again and again. I keep tryin to convinve you that nature healed your asmtha, and then I am criticizing you for telling me God cured you. So I stand corrected, if you believe God cured your asmtha, you are entitled to believe so. Not everyone shares that belief, but you are entitloed to do so. Remember though that you have a distinct set of beliefs but there are a crapload of people who don't share those beliefs and instead choose to rely on things like medical advancement and research to have in faithin for healing them of illness. Again I am not with that school either, I believe we have natural remedies here on earth that have yet to be used to their full potential, mainly because drug companies, the FDa and government don't stand to make very much money from natural remedy, IMHO.
    Please don't PM me with questions.
    Use the forums, that is what they are here for.

  19. #119
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Well if that is your opinion, then I respect that.

  20. #120
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Polymath
    I don't deny there are things we can't explain, 99% of weird stuff generally can be explained...but I can't explain seeing chupacabras any more than what you said.
    Can't explain... yet.

  21. #121
    SitePoint Addict manipura's Avatar
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    ok, I haven't been here for awhile, I think its time to just bust out my mind again....

    Ok well.. There was this guy on the radio once somewhere in europe and he said he could bend forks with his mind. Then he did it right there on the radio. Now the weird part of that would be that when he did, people listening to the radio show had their forks and spoons start to bend.

    Now, to talk about the power of the mind on the human body. A 3 year old boy had cancer. Of course the doctor couldn't do anything. What the boy did was just IMAGINE little ships flying at him and shooting away the cancer. A few months later the cancer was gone! How is that possible? I have heard about kids do the same thing with aids. Although it wasn't ships flying at them, but they saw their body healing, thats all that counts. If you tell yourself your going to be sick today, then your body is going to start getting sick.

    Kids are also very in touch with their spiritual self. They come to this world knowing so much about everything. But then get worked into this society where what the kids know are worthless. Where everyone just tells you to be another sheep in the herd. Kids are very smart! Very powerful! But around the age of 8 they lose it.

    Ok, now I have lost it... My mind is blank... I'm getting out of this hot stinky noisy office... Talk to you all later!

  22. #122
    Making a better wheel silver trophy DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR's Avatar
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    Originally posted by manipura
    Now, to talk about the power of the mind on the human body. A 3 year old boy had cancer. Of course the doctor couldn't do anything. What the boy did was just IMAGINE little ships flying at him and shooting away the cancer. A few months later the cancer was gone! How is that possible?
    he didn't have cancer. the doctor was wrong.

  23. #123
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Originally posted by manipura
    Kids are very smart! Very powerful! But around the age of 8 they lose it.
    You're quite right. I believe people can, and should, mature faster than they do today. I really don't think the "cycles" people go through in terms of maturity today are normal. Maturity and responsibility are put off so that they can "have fun while they're young" -- their youth is prolonged so as to avoid reality, in my opinion.

    Kids are very, very smart at times. My younger sister Mercy, who is around 5 years old, once said "Mommy, does God move us around the way we move dolls around?" -- we were floored by how deep the statement was for someone her age. She says stuff like that every now and then. I think kids are thinking of a lot more than they say, and it's up to us to make them feel as if they can express these thoughts.

    Ok, now I'm offtopic. Don't mind me.


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