SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Senior Webdesigner koolbrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Mauritius
    Posts
    599
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    webdesigner PRO and Amateur to distinguish

    Hey,
    i wanted to know something. Me and many other webdesigners here are doing it not at a professinal level , i mean no university certificate,.... and this doesn't mean that we don't design "BIG" company, we ARE. So what's the purpose going 4 years to uni when you don't have to, and you have the same clients you would have as us. ,
    Could someone explain us clearly what are points with this subject please.
    BRian
    BrianStudio - the webdesign company
    Professional & Affordable
    Brian Dove - Senior Graphic Designer
    Direct Hire: info@brianstudio.com

  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Thailand
    Posts
    4,810
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've yet to see ""web design" as a core university course (in this country). It is often taught within other degrees (Marketing, Graphic Design etc etc), but not to my knowledge as a course on its own.
    The reason for getting any degree is simple. It demonstrates a level of commitment and ability that the biggest portfolio in the world does not. It WILL open doors for you if you want to gain employment just about anywhere, although it may not help you as a freelancer (at least as far as getting work in is concerned, although the content of the degree may help you loads).
    Basically - if you are young enough to be thinking about whether or not you want to do one, then quite frankly you are crazy not to. It will severely limit your career options if you don't.

    H
    ~The Artist Latterly Known as Crazy Hamster~
    922ee590a26bd62eb9b33cf2877a00df
    Currently delving into Django, GIT & CentOS

  3. #3
    SitePoint Enthusiast welded's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    vancouver.bc.ca
    Posts
    96
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by TheOriginalH
    The reason for getting any degree is simple. It demonstrates a level of commitment and ability that the biggest portfolio in the world does not.
    and being an accomplished web develper who is self-taught does not? if you ask me (though nobody did), if you were to look at the work of a school-taught professional and a self-taught amature and they were of equal quality and they develped their skills in an equal amount of time, i would tend to think the opposite.

    i do, though, agree that getting a degree does help a whole lot. there are some aspects of the business that cannot be learned easily on one's own; but i also believe that it is far from necessary to work professionally, and that it's not as damming as theoriginalh believe.
    it's amazing what velocity can do
    when human beings are in season

  4. #4
    SitePoint Addict Seer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Lyons, Colorado
    Posts
    391
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I often find myself wondering about this one. If two people are bidding for a design job, one quotes he/she recently graduated with a degree in graphic arts, the other being self taught displays an impressive portfolio of his/her work, where does the decision lean to first? If you display a positive attitude and show that you're very capable of doing the job, I don't really see what more is necessary to pove that you have determination, commitment and skill. More often than not, when people ask how you've learned what you know they seem a lot more impressed when you state that you've learned on your own.
    Last edited by Seer; Jul 7, 2001 at 19:48.
    Everything has been figured out, except how to live. - Jean-Paul Sartre (1905-1980)

  5. #5
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Middle United States
    Posts
    12
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I understand how you feel koolbrian. Why should I go to college when they can’t even teach me the things that I want to learn? At the same time, so many people (ahem, employers) won’t even ask you in the door for an interview without that diploma in recognition of a higher education.

    So here’s what I did. I created my own degree program in web development and design. The state university I attend has a policy that says if they don’t offer a degree that fits your needs, they will work with you within reason to develop one tailored to you!

    Needless to say my curriculum involves a lot of independent study, but it sure looks darn good on my resume to say that I will graduate with a web development degree that I created.
    My Goal: To Perceive Reality As It Is, Not As I Want It To Be
    1 Moment Designs - Web Development and Design
    Internet solutions for the present moment

  6. #6
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    175
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Woah, Scholar Warrior, do tell us which university is that so we can all go there and have DIY degrees. =P

    koolbrian, everyone has to start of somewhere. Basically in this industry you just have to be very dynamic, and even though now people might say that you're amatuerish, but keep on trying, observing and improving. Very soon, you will be where u want to be.
    http://winnielim.com- Portfolio site

  7. #7
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    East Lansing, MI USA
    Posts
    12,937
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here is what a degree does.

    If you have one person who is self taught and the other has a degree in Information Technology which one knows more about making a website?

    Could be either of them.

    Which one is more dependable? The person with the degree

    Which one is a harder worker? The person with the degree

    Which one knows more about things unrelated to web design? The person with the degree


    While by some fluke may make those statements incorrect getting a degree shows you are a hard worker, that you're dedicated, that you're dependable, and that you have knowledge about things unrelated to your field as well. Universities dont just teach you how to do your job, they make you take courses completely unrelated to your field so that you become more well rounded.
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
    Featured Article: Free Comprehensive SEO Guide
    My Guide to Building a Successful Website
    My Blog|My Webmaster Forums

  8. #8
    SitePoint Wizard iTec's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    2,243
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Heres a little story for you all...

    Once apon a time there was this guy called iTec, he finished school, had been designing websites for 2-3 years, he knew hi stuff, he had learnt javascript and asp and thought "I wanna be a web designer" he whent to every job agency and every job website, gave them his resume and applied for more jobs then he knew existed... 6 months latter he looked into TAFE ( gov run college) They had a web design course (6 month full time)... siiick! ill do that thought the little boy, so he ran down to tafe to get the details to apply... CGI??? What a waste of time... i want asp, not CGI... stuff that im not doing that course.. 6 months latter still looking for a job (portfolio slowly expanding) still no job... desided to try telco sales, (needed $$$) but got screwed... still wanted to do web design so whent back to tafe to look at the web design course... Level 2 computing studies required... (Learning to use the internet 20 hours ect ect seriouse waste of time ) so it was going to take me 6 months just to get the tafe course i wanted... stuff that, whent looking for a job again, od jobs here and there (freelance) 2 weeks ago he applied for the entry level comp studies course... stupid fool if he had of done the course when he first sore it, he would of been finished and had a job by now.... with a spare 6 months to kill instead ive got a year to go.... Blahhh

    My oppinion... become more like a computer.. MULTITASK
    do the courses, and try to find a job, at the same time... if you get a job try to finish the course off... if you cant 6 months Industry experience and your a pro now anyway so either way you are one step closer then the guy behind you

  9. #9
    SitePoint Enthusiast malleron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Arlington, Texas
    Posts
    59
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: webdesigner PRO and Amateur to distinguish

    Originally posted by koolbrian
    So what's the purpose going 4 years to uni when you don't have to, and you have the same clients you would have as us. ,
    Could someone explain us clearly what are points with this subject please.
    BRian
    Well, the benefits of continuing your education are enormous, especially in a field that seems to change with the wind (like anything related to the web). However, I'm not sure that limiting oneself to university programs is a wise choice.

    Sure, traditional degree programs do give potential employers/clients the impression that you're hard-working, dependable, and well-rounded, but people who take classes on their own without locking themselves into a formal degree are seen in many cases as just as hardworking, dependable, and well-rounded by just as many potential employers and clients. Personally, I don't think it's fair to say that people who take formal degrees are more committed or hardworking than those who take classes here and there. It depends on the person's situation.

    It also depends on your learning style. If you're more motivated to completing something when you've committed to a long-term agreement, then a formal degree program might be for you. On the other hand, if you enjoy learning "on the fly" and like to have more time to experiment with what you've learned, then taking individual classes on your own might be better.

    There's no question that education will benefit you in your career goals. It will improve the quality of your work and will demonstrate to others that you're committed to your chosen field. But the type of education you eventually take is up to you based on your situation, financial resources, and desire to learn.

    I don't think one method is better than any other. Some clients put a lot of store in where someone went to school and the degree they got. But degrees don't build good websites - people do. And it's how people use their education that makes them good designers.

    If the question is whether a university degree is worth taking at all, the answer is that it definitely is. Just don't think that it's the only thing you need to succeed.
    Jenny

    ==========================
    ...living the backstory...

  10. #10
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    East Lansing, MI USA
    Posts
    12,937
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well, the benefits of continuing your education are enormous, especially in a field that seems to change with the wind (like anything related to the web). However, I'm not sure that limiting oneself to university programs is a wise choice.
    I would like to point out that taking classes in hope to stay on top of new developments in this field will not work.

    Because of how fast this field evolves schools simply cannot keep up with it. As was mentioned it is very typical to find CGI techniques being a required course but not having a course that covers inline server side scripting languages, which are far more predominant today.

    Getting a degree is important because it gives you credibility. But for actual up to date technical knowledge you need to teach yourself.
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
    Featured Article: Free Comprehensive SEO Guide
    My Guide to Building a Successful Website
    My Blog|My Webmaster Forums

  11. #11
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Middle United States
    Posts
    12
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by xharine
    Woah, Scholar Warrior, do tell us which university is that so we can all go there and have DIY degrees. =P
    I made my own web development degree program at Iowa State University, and I bet most other schools will let you do the same, I mean it makes perfect sense from their standpoint. Your staying at their school so they get your money and the potential of a new degree!

    Here are some tips for getting this implemented at your school:
    • Look for any sort of policy or documentation referring to “interdisciplinary degrees” at your university. This is what you would be creating.
    • You’ll probably be working with Liberal Arts and Sciences division of your university.
    • If you feel that there isn’t adequate coverage in a given area, find a teacher you like and do an independent study.
    • Most teachers are willing to work with you. I have taken several classes where the class would have inhaled forcefully (aka sucked) had I not approached to instructor and asked to do alternative projects more closely related to what I want to do. Teachers are usually more interested in that your enjoying yourself and learning something that will benefit you directly, rather then having you flick boogers at them during class because your so bored.
    • Be prepared to convince people that there is indeed a demand for this major.

    Here is a proposal of my degree program that I offered to the LAS board at ISU.

    If you are interested in learning more about how I did this, I have a bunch of documents, proposal packets as well as offer advice that I would love to share with all of you. Just let me know and I will post more information here.

    Good luck
    My Goal: To Perceive Reality As It Is, Not As I Want It To Be
    1 Moment Designs - Web Development and Design
    Internet solutions for the present moment


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •