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  1. #1
    Former Staff Member silver trophy Adam P.'s Avatar
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    why use Flash rollovers when there's JavaScript

    I don't understand why someone would use Flash rollovers when there is JavaScript.

    I mean, JavaScript is compatible with all browsers and Flahsh only with some.

    For example: http://www.sudlowhomes.com/
    The site uses Flash rollovers.

    WHY?
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  2. #2
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    the only advantage to using flash for rollovers that i can think of right now is that you can have sound. but in that case, using flash does seem like a poor choice, especially since their navigation system, an extremely important part of any site, is inaccessible to people who don't have the flash plugin.

    Jason Weinstein
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  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    whoa people.

    Penetration for Flash is at something like 95-98%. Besides, if Flash is on someones computer they will see the movie/rollovers exactly like the designer intended (barring any color shifts). Javascript however, is not the same from OS to OS or even from browser to browser.

    Plus a javascript menu system can be up to 40 or 50 k while a comparable Flash menu system could be only 15-20k.
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  4. #4
    SitePoint Zealot
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    in the case of the site that swimm5001 mentionned, the site would be completely useless to people who don't have flash installed. even if this only occurs to 2-5% of visitors, it's still a serious problem. besides, i think that the number of people who have flash is much less than 95%. where did you get that info? many computers at libraries, schools, and work don't have flash installed on them and a large percentage of home users don't even know what flash is.

    Jason Weinstein
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  5. #5
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I think that most people have it installed but don't even know it. Flash comes with the browser, so when people install a browser Flash comes along with the ride. And all new computers with Windows have IE on them right along with flash. So just think about all those new computers that are sold everyday with flash.

  6. #6
    Procrastinator Extraordinaire lucas's Avatar
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    Originally posted by creole
    Penetration for Flash is at something like 95-98%. Besides, if Flash is on someones computer they will see the movie/rollovers exactly like the designer intended (barring any color shifts). Javascript however, is not the same from OS to OS or even from browser to browser.
    i disagree. while i realize macromedia spouts out those numbers, i have found it much less in my daily life. for instance, i go to southwest missouri state, a college with an enrollment of 16,000. all the computers in every lab on campus are rebuilt about every month or less. when they are rebuilt, flash is not installed (who knows why). that right there tells me 98% of people don't have flash.

    i would hazard a guess that even 98% of people don't even have 4.0 compatible browsers. i think the number is closer to 75-80 percent. everyone has their own number, depending on where you look.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    I don't have a clue - I've heard all of these figures before (incidently Lucas, 16,000 is not more than 2% of the surfing world, so that doesn't tell you anything "right there" ).

    Seriously though - I believe any truly professional site should be accessible to all. If that means redirects, dual or even triple designs and workarounds - so be it. If you profess to being professional - then it is your job to ensure maximum penatration. As I've said before - its not a designers place to tell a client who their site should be visable to. I turned down a company on a serious money tender today on that very issue.

    Getting total perfection is of course the holy grail, and not necessary (although some form of access or explaination advisable) for personal/hobby sites. I actually quite like the buttons on that site - and with a little flash detection and redirection they could be legitamately used as an ALTERNATIVE to a version with either rollovers or text based links.

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  8. #8
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    there is a difference between all computers have xx installed and saying all regular web surfers have xx on their computer.
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  9. #9
    pg for mild peril cow's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ben
    I think that most people have it installed but don't even know it. Flash comes with the browser, so when people install a browser Flash comes along with the ride. And all new computers with Windows have IE on them right along with flash. So just think about all those new computers that are sold everyday with flash.
    i've also heard the 92-95% number but i don't think that's the case. my wife just got a brand spanking new dell at work that came pre-installed with ie and she didn't have the flash plugin. nor did the other 5 brand new workstations they just got in their office...

  10. #10
    Procrastinator Extraordinaire lucas's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TheOriginalH
    I don't have a clue - I've heard all of these figures before (incidently Lucas, 16,000 is not more than 2% of the surfing world, so that doesn't tell you anything "right there" ).
    i was thinking someone was going to take that the wrong way . i didn't mean that 16k is 2%, i meant that if 16,000 people on a state of the art college campus have to install flash everytime they rebuild the computers, then there is a good possibility that not every computer has flash installed from the beginning. i don't even believe 98% of surfers have 4.0 browsers or faster than 486 computers, nevermind flash.

  11. #11
    SitePoint Guru
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    While I'm not interested in Flash, personally, it seems to me that whether you use javascript or Flash for rollovers, you should have alternative navigation.

  12. #12
    You talkin to me? Anarchos's Avatar
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    According to flash 5, there 95% have Flash 4 or greater (60% have Flash 5). Depending on your particular audience it'll be more or less than the average.

  13. #13
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Okay, I run Win98 at home and NT 4.0 at work. Neither CAME with Flash but when running Windows Update, it's one o f the updates. Honestly, if someone goes to a site that uses the Flash plugin and it's not installed in their browser, the browser asks if you want it to be installed and it takes about a minute to do so...is that such a big deal for the, IMHO, FEW PC's that don't have Flash installed?

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  14. #14
    You talkin to me? Anarchos's Avatar
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    Well there are still people with disabilities who cannot use flash at all.

  15. #15
    SitePoint Addict Kakarot720's Avatar
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    Well there are still people with disabilities who cannot use flash at all.

    I believe Macromedia just released an accessibility plugin for Flash 5. I heard this from a reliable source earlier today, but haven't yet had the time to verify it for myself.

  16. #16
    SitePoint Evangelist pip's Avatar
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    Flash is growing rapidly in my oppinion. If a user doesn't have Flash, that's his problem. I agree that all users should be able to view your site, since I believe that Browser compatibillity is part of the life of a web designer. One must consider non-compatible browsers, and should implement some type of compatibility on your site for all systems and browsers.

    But to answer the question from my prespective, JavaScript will never beat the quality of Flash. I mean if you have a look at www.phong.com for instance. The speed of this site is maruculous, the quality is excellent and it just looks great.

    As I mentioned before, we're in a growing sphere. The Internet is getting new languages and functions by day. Soon enough every browser will and should support Flash to the fullest extend, and if you're going to avoid a browser with Flash merely because of the concept, you shouldn't be a web surfer or designer.

    I design my sites for the highest level of browser technology, then provide compatibility for the rest. As simple as that
    - Pip
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  17. #17
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pip
    The speed of this site is maruculous, the quality is excellent and it just looks great.
    What does 'maruculous' mean?

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  18. #18
    SitePoint Guru
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    I've never been a fan of Flash for regular web sites. It's not just the loading time (still an issue way too much of the time), or the miserable way many Flash sites are designed in terms of navigation and usablility. It's that it just doesn't feel like a web page to me. However, this one site has turned me around, I think. As a resident of Long Island, I now see that Flash has an important contribution to make to the world:
    http://www.nukethehamptons.com/


    To go back to the original topic, I'd still provide alternate navitgation. Why not, after all?

  19. #19
    SitePoint Evangelist pip's Avatar
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    My apologies to you Sketch. It was meant to be 'Miraculous', but I'm sure everyone else got that though
    - Pip
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    Nothing takes the taste out of peanut butter quite like unrequited love.

  20. #20
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    i was just pickin' on you....

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  21. #21
    SitePoint Evangelist pip's Avatar
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    Yea I know. Otherwise I would have edited my post, and you'd have to delete yours in order not to look ignorant or as if you can't read. A little bit of humor couldn't hurt anyone
    - Pip
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Nothing takes the taste out of peanut butter quite like unrequited love.


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