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  1. #51
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevenuePilot
    Can you please give links to the two ad agencies you guys have?

    thanks,
    Are you Israeli?

    Here: www.imedia.co.il and I forgot the other one... If you want contact me by p.m. and I'll check the other one.

  2. #52
    SitePoint Guru RevenuePilot's Avatar
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    I am not an Israeli but I am always interested to learn about international ad networks due to the ever expanding international ad market.



    Quote Originally Posted by tounano
    Are you Israeli?

    Here: www.imedia.co.il and I forgot the other one... If you want contact me by p.m. and I'll check the other one.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venix
    Am I the only one at Sitepoint who took a major beating with Google latest update? Over at WW tons of people with clean sites have been trashed by the Bourbon update. Anyway, untill about 10 days ago I'd say things were going great. Now I am focusing more than ever on projects that don't need SE traffic to be successful. Anyone who wants their success in this game to last must not build their income on free SE traffic, and believe me you don't need be a black hat spammer to be nuked by Google. On the brighter side I just launched a new site 5 days ago and it already got 30 000 visitors, and I haven't used 1$ on marketing
    Can you please tell us what promotion method you use to get 30,000 visitors in 5 days? Was it a press release?

  4. #54
    Massimiliano Bruno Giordano sid egg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leadwall
    Can you please tell us what promotion method you use to get 30,000 visitors in 5 days? Was it a press release?
    Yeah, give us some of your genius ideas
    GamesLib.com - the slickest, most complete and
    easily navigatible flash games site on the web.

  5. #55
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    try pointing links at it and a press release It doesn't take much......

  6. #56
    SitePoint Zealot Venix's Avatar
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    No press release. You know those sites that you just have to show to all your friends? That is how I did it Just people talking

  7. #57
    Non-Member vammirato's Avatar
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    I'm getting 150 uniques a day on one siate and 70 uniques a day on the other. Each visitor hits about 9 pages for 1400 page views a day on one and 630 on the other. Ad revenue, what revenue? I had JUST started with google when a Ranking Software Toolbox I used hit all my external links and caused about 200 illegal clicks in 5 minutes.

    Before then I was making about $6/day and it was GROWING.

    Oh well, on to other advertisers....

  8. #58
    Non-Member vammirato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venix
    Am I the only one at Sitepoint who took a major beating with Google latest update? Over at WW tons of people with clean sites have been trashed by the Bourbon update.
    Actually, I've climbed from obscurity to number 1/2 in google for the terms "charlotte realty services" since the last update and despite being dumped from adSense.

    _V_

  9. #59
    SitePoint Wizard LeoWebDesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vammirato
    I'm getting 150 uniques a day on one siate and 70 uniques a day on the other. Each visitor hits about 9 pages for 1400 page views a day on one and 630 on the other. Ad revenue, what revenue? I had JUST started with google when a Ranking Software Toolbox I used hit all my external links and caused about 200 illegal clicks in 5 minutes.

    Before then I was making about $6/day and it was GROWING.

    Oh well, on to other advertisers....
    I hope you learned a lesson from that. Don't use automated software for things like that.

  10. #60
    Non-Member vammirato's Avatar
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    Painful Lesson

    Yes I did, Leo. I just wish google would let me back in...I miss going to my report page every day and watching the money grow. I would give a leg if I could somehow get back in google's good graces.

  11. #61
    SitePoint Wizard LeoWebDesign's Avatar
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    Email them and explain the situation. It can't hurt to try.

  12. #62
    Massimiliano Bruno Giordano sid egg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoWebDesign
    Email them and explain the situation. It can't hurt to try.
    Always try!
    GamesLib.com - the slickest, most complete and
    easily navigatible flash games site on the web.

  13. #63
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    Sitting around $200 a month, maybe a bit more. So its still a hobby for me, if I manage to get into gear and make some better sites I hope to earn $3k a month and live off it. (I'm overseas so $3000USD is the average wage over here roughly).

    I'm on about 30k uniques per month from all sites.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfitz
    Sitting around $200 a month, maybe a bit more. So its still a hobby for me, if I manage to get into gear and make some better sites I hope to earn $3k a month and live off it. (I'm overseas so $3000USD is the average wage over here roughly).

    I'm on about 30k uniques per month from all sites.
    You have a lot of sites, I think with a little more effort you can earn twice...

  15. #65
    SitePoint Enthusiast laertes's Avatar
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    I spend about 150k ($273k) per month on the ppc engines to bring visitors to my network of approx. 10 to 15 sites (depending on what I am promoting on any given month). This in turn generates between 50k ($91k) and 100k ($182k) per month in profit. Of course some of that profit comes from natural listings (SEO) but probably only a very small percentage as I'm mainly ppc.
    You're sites must convert like crazy. I frankly don't understand how it is possible to make money with PPC as an affiliate.

    It is challenging enough for ecommerce store owners. An affiliate has also an added level of complexity- conversion of the merchant's landing page.

    Example- Given a 10% conversion on my landing page, (arbitrary number) I need to buy 1000 clicks to get 100 clicks to the merchant's landing page to get 1 sale, (assuming he has a 1% conversion). So, if my average commision is 30$, this means I can pay a max of 3 cents a click to expect a break even. Extremely challenging indeed! (especially since any affiliate program paying $30 a sale will more often than not be saturated with competition)...

    Is my math way off, or is there some trick to this? What am I missing?

  16. #66
    SitePoint Evangelist Chromate222's Avatar
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    You're right - it's not easy. I've been trying to break into PPC based promotions myself for a little while.

    Your example obviously wouldn't work as the CTR and conversions are too low. Either you would have to use your site's landing page to "pre-sell" the merchant's product more, thereby increasing the conversion rate. Or you would have to increase the CTR from your site to the merchant's site.


  17. #67
    SitePoint Enthusiast laertes's Avatar
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    I need more conversion, Scotty

    Yeah, my thoughts exactly.

    Well, let's see, to make it work for my example- with a click thru rate on my landing page of 25%, then from my 1000 clicks I bought, I'd send the merchant 250.

    And if I 'pre-sold' hard enough, and he's got a real good conversion rate of 5%, I'll get 12 sales, or $360, which means my breakeven is now a whopping 36 cents. In order to get a 100% ROI, my max bid must be 18 cents.

    Still seems not very much to bid, but maybe you could find obscure niche phrases that don't have much competition.

    I wouldn't surprise me if some affiliates bid campaigns at a loss until they have a track record of some good sales volume with the merchant, and then ask for commision increases to enable them to make a profit.

    Well, I suppose if it was easy, everyone would do it.

  18. #68
    SitePoint Addict AndyH's Avatar
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    Success is different for everyone.

    I think I have done well but plan on doing much more.

    As for income, enough to pay the bills and do what I want.

  19. #69
    SitePoint Evangelist Chromate222's Avatar
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    Laertes, if you've hyped the product up enough to get a 5% conversion rate, then the CTR from your site to the merchant should be much higher than 25%. I would think around 70% is quite reachable.

    So far, I've mainly been sending the user straight to the merchant from the PPC ad to circumvent the CTR issue from affiliate site to merchant site. I think that's where I'm falling down! Need to do some good pre-sell stuff - as the conversions from my sites that get organic search engine traffic, on the same topic and using the same merchants, are much much higher.

    It's all about balancing out the little bits of the process. Takes practice I guess. unfortunately, that practice costs with PPC haha


  20. #70
    SitePoint Enthusiast laertes's Avatar
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    So far, I've mainly been sending the user straight to the merchant from the PPC ad to circumvent the CTR issue from affiliate site to merchant site.
    Chromate, I thought that that was not allowed on Google or Overture? This is what I was doing until the new Adwords policy kicked in this Jan. How are you getting around the new rules?

    You can theoretically do it with Adwords, but you have to find a product that nobody else is promoting, or else outbid everybody else, since they will not show more than one add per URL.

    And again, if nobody else is promoting that product, then there is probably a reason. (poor conversion, no traffic, or low commission)

    Maybe people are doing redirects or cloaking to get the clicks to the merchant landing page?

  21. #71
    SitePoint Evangelist Chromate222's Avatar
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    As you say, one ad per URL. I think many affiliates give up before even looking, and link the ad to their site first. I've found many oportunities where there is no one directly promoting the merchant via PPC.

    But, I think it's probably better to do some pre-sell anyway. I guess if the user's not likely to click through to the merchant's site from the affiliate site, then they're probably not that likely to by the product anyway, even if sent directly to the merchant's site via the PPC ad. Unless of course the merchant has some sort of killer conversion tactic on their site.

    If Kieron from UKOffer is around, I'm sure he would be able to shed some light on this issue, considering his obvious experience.


  22. #72
    SitePoint Wizard mark_W's Avatar
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    I once had a site that used to make me $0.50 a day. Oh apart from one day when it made like $3.00. I nearly fell off my chair.

  23. #73
    SitePoint Enthusiast laertes's Avatar
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    If Kieron from UKOffer is around, I'm sure he would be able to shed some light on this issue, considering his obvious experience.
    According to his blog, he just bought a house, (he must be doing something right, since he also just bought a new Cadillac Escalade) so he probably won't be posting here for a while, unfortunately.

    Well, I guess my best bet is to do some testing and compare which converts better- direct to merchant, or pre-sell landing page.

  24. #74
    SitePoint Evangelist Chromate222's Avatar
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    Let me know the results. Feel free to PM me if you wanna discuss in detail.


  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by laertes
    According to his blog, he just bought a house, (he must be doing something right, since he also just bought a new Cadillac Escalade) so he probably won't be posting here for a while, unfortunately.

    Well, I guess my best bet is to do some testing and compare which converts better- direct to merchant, or pre-sell landing page.
    Sorry guys, I have indeed up to my arms in house type stuff! To be honest my business has had to take a back seat for a while, and probably will for another couple of weeks at least. The good thing is that most of my sites and ppc campaigns need minimal fine tuning on a daily basis so I can afford to step back for a bit.

    With regards to the various questions posed here, lets see if I can share my experiences on some matters.

    Firstly, if you are promoting a specific product or service then there are 2 ways to do it in my book. The first is direct to merchant via a ppc ad in Google. In my opinion this is the best way to promote via ppc as it reduces the number of clicks a user has to make to complete a purchase, simply because there is no affiliate landing page for people to drop out of the sales process from. Also, if a user clicks on your Google ad that goes direct to a merchant then of course a cookie will be dropped, which will help you when collecting sales. Unfortunately with the "one URL" rule in Google it is getting harder and harder to use ppc direct to merchant. I have some mechants in the UK who allow me to do this but only because we have long standing relationships.

    So the second way is via an affiliate landing page. In my experience these come in 2 flavours. The first flavour is the affiliate landing page that just gives brief details of the product/service that you are promoting. I have an example for Virgin Broadband which can be found at www.virginbroadband.com. It's also worth noting that this page used to end at the "click here for more information and to check broadband availability" link. However Google are now cracking down on "Affiliate bridge pages" and are demanding that they offer some unique content relevant to the topic. Hence I had to add all the text in at the bottom. Which really isn't a bad thing as it is seperate from the price offers at the top of the page and will hopefully help me for SEO pages.

    The second type of affiliate landing page which I have found successful is the basic price comparison landing page. An example can be seen here, http://www.ukoffer.com/tom-tom-go.php. This is basically where I will send people who are searching for the Tom Tom GO sat nav system on Google. The Google ad will say something like "Save up to 100 on the Tom Tom Go, compare latest offers here". So I am basically giving users 2 reasons to click on the ad, 1 is to save up to 100 and the other is to compare the latest offers. This sort of sales copy can result in CTR rates of up to 40%. And as you can see the landing page is really simple and just gives the user the latest prices that the Tom Tom GO can be purchased for online. Again, I regularly experience CTR rates from the landing page of well over 70%. *note* the prices on this page are well out of date, I am using it for illustrative purposes only.

    Cheers!
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