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View Poll Results: What is your best editor for coding???

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    6 17.65%
  • Dreamweaver

    14 41.18%
  • Other

    14 41.18%
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  1. #26
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    can you find me the link to this?
    Aaron Brazell
    Technosailor



  2. #27
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    wert: Am I talking to thin air? You can personalize FP's coding style to match exactly how you program. Thus, the only way DW would "clean code" is if it's yours.

    We are no longer FP98 (or 97 honging :P) we are talking 2k and 2002. Advanced programs which DO have problems but have kept the bad rep in spite of massive overhauls.

    I would again like to state that dirty html is still html that works and thus, for the intended audience (corporations) it is perfect.
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  3. #28
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by studiococo
    ...but have kept the bad rep in spite of massive overhauls.
    ...well, maybe if they wrote the programs properly in the first place?...

  4. #29
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    How was DW1-2?

    How was flash1-3?

    How was photoshop 1-2?

    How was quark 1-2?

    How was CAD pre-8?

    How was... Get the picture?

    We've been forgiving of all of these things, but because of some reason I can't quite put my finger on we aren't of FP. No, fp isn't to be an industry standard product but it was never meant to be.
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
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  5. #30
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    DW2 - no probs with that.

    Flash - not originally developed by Macromedia, if you know the histroy...

    Good ol' Photoshop 2.5 - I remember it well...

    FP - I refer you to my previous story about my old client who "didn't need to know any html"...

    We can't argue about personal experience really can we?

    I tried FP back-in-the-day and it was a pile o' poo - I won't move over to it now unless it's forced upon me in a future role... Dreamweaver won my heart, and that's where it will stay...


  6. #31
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    Dear oh dear....yet another Dreamweaver v. Frontpage argument!!!

    Many of you already know my stance on this - I use FP and am quite happy to do so.

    I don't use it because I like it's styles and templates - I prefer to build from scratch, like an artist starts with a blank canvas.

    I don't use it because I think it's the best piece of web development software on the market - I know it has limitations.

    I use it because I already had it and because I don't want to spend 's on Dreamweaver just because the majority think everyone should have it. Personally, I'd much rather spend my money on new graphics software!

    If anything, using FP has forced me to be more independant and to learn to hand-code so that I can recognise bad code if I see it. Though I will say, as I've said before, that FP has NEVER messed with any of my code...including bits I've hand-coded (which I'm doing more and more) and the pages I originally put together in a old trial copy of HotMetal Pro which I used because people kept telling me to avoid FP like the plague!

    If you don't like it, fine, but don't knock those who do.
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!

  7. #32
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    DW2 was buggy as hell

    I know flash wasn't originally by macromedia (most of their products weren't).

    PS2.5 was not only more limited than corel but buggy as anything as well

    These programs matured, just as frontpage has matured.

    And, your client who "didn't need to know any html" well, that is their prerogative. I am not pro frontpage. I am against any segregation for any reason other than a really good one.

    If you can say that a whole product line including products you haven't necessarily tried and all the ones taht will come in the future automatically suck then that is really bad.

    If however you have tried each one (to see if the problems have been answered) then you have a legit beef.

    I've already done my stance as well: FP isn't for me but it has it's uses, specifically in the corporate environment.

    That is the only thing I really have to say. It is perfect for a corporate environment.
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  8. #33
    SitePoint Guru sowen's Avatar
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    Studiococo is right, things move on.

    The first version of Pagemaker was a pile of ####. It used a run-time version of Gem, then later a run-time version of Windows 1 (might have been 2, can't remember that far back) 18 months later Pagemaker was the market leader for pre-press and publishing and it was still bloody awfull to use - in comparason to what we have now! at the time we could not believe how easy to use it was.

    I am fairly new to this web design stuff, I use DW 'cause it suits ME and the way I work. I have reached the point now where I work more in the code pane than the WYSIWYG pane.

    We have FP2k at work (as part of Office) I looked at it and it seems OK. When I finaly get the time to build our intranet I will use FP because it's here and it will produce pages that work which is we need any program to do. How many internet users actually take a look at the source html? It is a stat I would love to see but my guess is very few.

  9. #34
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by studiococo
    DW2 was buggy as hell
    The only problem I seem to remember was to do with the FTP/Site management.

    My point, once again - was that AT THE TIME Frontpage didn't cut it for me - so I tried DW and loved it.
    It's still to expensive IMO.

    I am not knocking anyone - just givin my POV.

    Its all down to personal preference innit!

    (oh coooolio - I got 2 badges )

  10. #35
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    *L*

    Fair enough, that's my point too
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  11. #36
    SitePoint Evangelist pip's Avatar
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    I've been hand coding on a text editor for over 6 years. I learned the languages in plain 'hand coding', from HTML to XML, Java, JavaScript, yada yada yada... and I don't see why I should waste money on software that's gonna do exactly what I'm gonna do. At least I know the ins and outs of all my sites. I know what's going on in the source in detail, things on the server-side, and everything else that comes with that. I am more creative and I have a better understanding of the structure I set up which, I can push to the limits and still understand it.

    Ok... I agree that sometimes it takes longer, but at least I code HTML and JavaScript faster than I can type in English. FrontPage has just made me break away from Editors, and so has many other software packages out there. Thus, I prefer to stick to Hesky-Data Software Pad.

    Dreamwaever has tought me ASP. Not sure if I should feel guilty for checking out how Dreamweaver connected to databases, and opening its sources just so that I can learn, but it pretty much worked out well. Other than this, I will not use it merely because I know most of what the program knows.

    After said all of that, I almost feel like an editor. Anyone wanna buy me?
    - Pip
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Nothing takes the taste out of peanut butter quite like unrequited love.

  12. #37
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    I dunno, you talk alot and that would kinda distract me... Do you come with a volume switch or a ***** slap feature?
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  13. #38
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by studiococo
    ...b1tch slap feature?

  14. #39
    Xbox why have you forsaken me? moospot's Avatar
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    DW 4 and Hand coding here. I use FrontPage also when I have to connect to a client's FP web. There is an option (BTW) to turn FP "code altering" OFF. I prefer to use the DW/FW package because they are simpler (for me) to use. It just make sense (Though most of the time I am using the Code view).

    When you know HTML code, you can use any tool to get great results. These products are tools and we should use any variety of tools to achieve a great final product, whether it be FrontPage, Dreamweaver or Notepad!

  15. #40
    SitePoint Enthusiast agh3's Avatar
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    Weirdo here...

    I use Trellix Web to do the quick and dirty sites, and hand code the complicated stuff.

    I've used FP (97) and toyed with DW. I've also got a copy of 1stPage 2000 from evrsoft, and HotDog. I've used them all off and on, but usually come back to Trellix and EditPad.
    Andrew G. Hargreave, III (GIAC Security Essentials Certified)
    agh3 Consulting
    (email) agh3@agh3.com

  16. #41
    Blissed off
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    I used fp2000 for nearly a year in it default mode. I didn't modify it to to match anything, just used it as a normal user would. Later on, examination of the code kinda horrified me! It puts so much useless and extra crap in each page it produces. All I'm saying is the dw 4's "clean up fp html" was very helpful in getting rid of all that extra junk...

  17. #42
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    how do you turn off FP's web altering in FP2k or 2k2?

    Sketch
    Aaron Brazell
    Technosailor



  18. #43
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    In FP2000 go...

    Tools > Page Options > HTML Source

    then check 'preserve existing html'

    Mines been set like this since the day I started using it, and, as I said, it's never changed any of my code.
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!

  19. #44
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    wert: The point exactly. The code it generates for "normal" users WORKS. For those who want to write their own html though the option is there to let you.
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  20. #45
    SitePoint Evangelist pip's Avatar
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    I'll be sure to implement the new features soon studiococo. Pip 2002 should have bug fixes and many new non-interesting and useless functions. I'll let you know as soon as I am reeady to be launched.
    - Pip
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Nothing takes the taste out of peanut butter quite like unrequited love.

  21. #46
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    You have to wonder why they had the 'code butcher' feature in the first place really? (oh yeah - it's a Microsoft Product!)

  22. #47
    SitePoint Guru sowen's Avatar
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    I am fairly sure (please correct me if I am wrong) but a good number of the early html wysiwyg editors altered code to their liking.

    z7 - Notepad is a Microsoft product

  23. #48
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Yeah, a really complex one at that!

  24. #49
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    *L* Yup, that whole File>Open thing really threw me for a loop to
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  25. #50
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by sowen
    I am fairly sure (please correct me if I am wrong) but a good number of the early html wysiwyg editors altered code to their liking.

    z7 - Notepad is a Microsoft product
    LMAO. Good call.....

    Sketch
    Aaron Brazell
    Technosailor




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