SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 44
  1. #1
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    122
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Netscape 8.0 - What do you think?

    Netscape 8.0 has been released and is described as a "Hybrid" browser. It's based on Firefox 1.0.3 and allows switching between Firefox and Internet Explorer rendering engine.

    Could this be the new web designers friend?

    Personally I'm always switching between those two browsers to check sites.

    I've only tried it for about 5 minutes so I don't have any other opinions on it at the moment. Has anyone else tried it out yet?

  2. #2
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    7,305
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I wonder if it has that functionality for Mac. This could be something us Mac users have been waiting for. Have you got a link to the page that has information on that? Last time I looked, I couldn't find anything.
    Last edited by mstwntd; May 19, 2005 at 08:29. Reason: earlier suggestion removed

  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard Defender1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    My Computer
    Posts
    2,808
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Netscape is lame, bloated and just play out of the running IMO.
    I couldn't stand touching Netscape after v4.7.
    Defender's Designs
    I'm Getting Married!

    Not-so-patiently awaiting Harry Potter Book 7 *sigh*

  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard Rick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Lancashire, UK
    Posts
    3,847
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Moved to CH&S
    Rick

  5. #5
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    122
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mstwntd
    I wonder if it has that functionality for Mac. This could be something us Mac users have been waiting for. Have you got a link to the page that has information on that? Last time I looked, I couldn't find anything.

    http://browser.netscape.com/ns8/product/site.jsp

  6. #6
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    122
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Defender1
    Netscape is lame, bloated and just play out of the running IMO.
    I couldn't stand touching Netscape after v4.7.

    I'm not so sure now. This browser is based on Firefox 1.0.3 so it's not the old bloated browser we used to know.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Zealot HardinComp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    171
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'll give them technical points for their concept, but negative style points for the way they greet visitors to their website. I'm running Firefox 1.0.4, which is a week old, and Netscape gives me a page saying my browser is outdated. Of course Henrik Gemal posts that he got the same thing with the latest nightly build of Firefox, which is even funnier.

    AOHell is back to gorilla marketing, and it ticks me off so much that I won't even download it to check it out. I'll stick with separate installations of Firefox and IE, thank you.
    J.M. Hardin
    My blog
    Registered Ubuntu User #10980

  8. #8
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    122
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HardinComp
    I'll give them technical points for their concept, but negative style points for the way they greet visitors to their website. I'm running Firefox 1.0.4, which is a week old, and Netscape gives me a page saying my browser is outdated.
    I'm running firefox 1.0.4 and I don't get the message.

    Incidently before anyone starts having a go at me. I'm not in any way endorsing Netscape 8.0 I was just after peoples opinions. I'll probably be sticking to Firefox after what I've seen of it but I do like the engine switching feature.

  9. #9
    SitePoint Zealot HardinComp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    171
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I didn't get it at first, but then I cleared my Firefox cache and accepted their cookies for the session. Then, sure enough, I got it. It came up in IE right off the bat, so I'm guessing it's a function of their cookies.
    J.M. Hardin
    My blog
    Registered Ubuntu User #10980

  10. #10
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Maine USA
    Posts
    3,781
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I look at Netscape 8 as another option for users. I think, however, it will be mostly a non-issue except that it will provide a little more downward pressure on MSIE's marketshare. This in turn could create more negative PR for MSIE.
    Ken Barbalace: EnvironmentalChemistry.com (Blog, Careers)
    InternetSAR.org
    Volunteers Assist Search and Rescue via Internet
    My Firefox Theme: Classic Compact
    Based onFirefox's default theme but uses much less window space

  11. #11
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    122
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HardinComp
    I didn't get it at first, but then I cleared my Firefox cache and accepted their cookies for the session. Then, sure enough, I got it. It came up in IE right off the bat, so I'm guessing it's a function of their cookies.
    Oh yeah I get it now, that's a bit cheeky.

    What I found amusing when I ran it was the first thing that happened was it blocked a popup from Netscapes own site.

  12. #12
    SitePoint Wizard Defender1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    My Computer
    Posts
    2,808
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HardinComp
    I'll give them technical points for their concept, but negative style points for the way they greet visitors to their website. I'm running Firefox 1.0.4, which is a week old, and Netscape gives me a page saying my browser is outdated. Of course Henrik Gemal posts that he got the same thing with the latest nightly build of Firefox, which is even funnier.

    AOHell is back to gorilla marketing, and it ticks me off so much that I won't even download it to check it out. I'll stick with separate installations of Firefox and IE, thank you.
    It probably does that to anyone using anything but Netscape 8.

    virtuaffinity, I was refering too all the extra crap in it, not it's rendering engine.
    Defender's Designs
    I'm Getting Married!

    Not-so-patiently awaiting Harry Potter Book 7 *sigh*

  13. #13
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    7,305
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by virtuaffinity
    I'm not so sure now. This browser is based on Firefox 1.0.3 so it's not the old bloated browser we used to know.
    The rendering engine, or base have nothing to do with interface bloat. From the snapshots on Netscape's site, it looks pretty horrible.

  14. #14
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    122
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yep, I'm not impressed. I do like the switching function. They got that bit right.

  15. #15
    SitePoint Wizard megamanXplosion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,099
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't see any reason at all to use the Netscape browser. The back-end is bloated, the interface is bloated, MSHTML-Gecko switching is pointless, and it's security is absolutely horrible. They released 8.0 even though they *knew* there were security problems with it (all the while they boasted about the security of the product); 40+ security problems if you want to get technical.

    http://browser.netscape.com/ns8/download/default.jsp

    If you're going to use this p.o.s., at least use 8.0.1.

  16. #16
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    4,095
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Post On Netscape.

    It seems to me that the vast majority of users of any new version of Netscape will be those who are upgrading, whether from version seven or 4.7. Considering that Internet Exploder comes preinstalled on every Mac and Windows machine, the ability to switch between the Exploder and Gecko engines seems superfluous. With the I.E. View extension you can jump to Exploder from Firefox in two clicks, and the corresponding Firefox View plugin you can do the reverse. All in all, I fail to see why the Netscape team is continuing development.

  17. #17
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    7,305
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by megamanXplosion
    MSHTML-Gecko switching is pointless, and it's security is absolutely horrible.
    For us, mac users, it's actually a breakthough, as we don't have access to IE 6.

  18. #18
    SitePoint Wizard megamanXplosion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,099
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't see any download links for Netscape 8 on the Mac... Where are you seeing that? All I can find is Windows, 98-XP, and nothing else.

  19. #19
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy someonewhois's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,364
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    They had a security update within 24 hours, and are now up to 8.0.1. That's not too reassuring.

  20. #20
    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Slave I
    Posts
    23,426
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    My wife uses NN 7.2. Won't let her upgrade to 8.0. I'm either gonna have to force her to use Firefox (*whip crack) or Mozilla 1.7.7 (or whatever the current version is).

  21. #21
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Maine USA
    Posts
    3,781
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by megamanXplosion
    They released 8.0 even though they *knew* there were security problems with it (all the while they boasted about the security of the product); 40+ security problems if you want to get technical.
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but the 40+ security problems was an erroneous misrepresentation of the facts due to bad communication. See: http://www.webpronews.com/news/ebusi...JustHours.html

    The release of Netscape 8 based on Firefox 1.0.3 instead of 1.0.4 was due to a false impression that Netscape 8 wasn't vulnerable to the issues patched by 1.0.4. I do see this as an inherent weakness of Netscape 8. Not only will one be susceptible to security issues of MSIE, especially if the user thinks they don't need to patch MSIE because they use Netscape, but there will be extra lag time between when a flaw with Firefox is reported and when the issue is resolved within Netscape 8 as the patch would first have to be released for Firefox and then rolled into Netscape 8.

    From a security standpoint, Netscape 8 seems like a really bad idea.
    Ken Barbalace: EnvironmentalChemistry.com (Blog, Careers)
    InternetSAR.org
    Volunteers Assist Search and Rescue via Internet
    My Firefox Theme: Classic Compact
    Based onFirefox's default theme but uses much less window space

  22. #22
    ~unplugged Ainslie X11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Langley, Virginia
    Posts
    1,013
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mstwntd
    For us, mac users, it's actually a breakthough, as we don't have access to IE 6.
    I have virtual pc installed on one of the Mac's to run Windows IE6. While this sounds impossible, it 'doesn't' render the same way as PC Win IE6 and I've got no idea why.

    I was wondering if anyone has noticed the same thing (I compared a few of my projects with results from WinIE 6 via browsercam - not the same.. nothing major, just not the same).

    If NN8/IE6 rendering doesn't have the same issue, then that's a good thing.


    working hard is hard work

  23. #23
    SitePoint Wizard megamanXplosion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,099
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but the 40+ security problems was an erroneous misrepresentation of the facts due to bad communication. See: http://www.webpronews.com/news/ebus...nJustHours.html

    The release of Netscape 8 based on Firefox 1.0.3 instead of 1.0.4 was due to a false impression that Netscape 8 wasn't vulnerable to the issues patched by 1.0.4. I do see this as an inherent weakness of Netscape 8. Not only will one be susceptible to security issues of MSIE, especially if the user thinks they don't need to patch MSIE because they use Netscape, but there will be extra lag time between when a flaw with Firefox is reported and when the issue is resolved within Netscape 8 as the patch would first have to be released for Firefox and then rolled into Netscape 8.

    From a security standpoint, Netscape 8 seems like a really bad idea.
    Actually, you just made the bubble bigger after I done a little digging. There's a lot of issues in Netscape 8 that need to be resolved but still haven't been: descrepancies between browsing history when switching between rendering engines (security problem), the Trusted Preferences options are always set to default even though you haven't selected it (security problem), the vulnerabiliites that still exist in Firefox 1.0.4 also plague Netscape 8.0.1, etc.

    They knew there was a possibility of security holes in 8.0 and they released their product only to leave many people vulnerable to exploits. Why in the world didn't they test it for these vulnerabilities if they thought it were remotely possible? Then they quickly rushed out 8.0.1 to fix a few of the security problems found, but failed to patch the remaining ones (browsing history discrepancies and trusted sites vulnerability). Even with the patched 8.0.1 people are still vulnerable to being exploited. Expect to see 8.0.2 in a week or so to patch the remaining vulnerabilities that are caused by Netscape.

    By that time I am sure that Firefox 1.0.5 will make its appearance with it's security problems fixed (5 exploits listed at Secunia but I think 3 of them were already fixed in Firefox 1.0.4, plus another browsing-history problem -that is seemingly missing from the Secunia page but is easily findable in their bugtracker- that I doubt will be fixed because it has plagued Firefox for ages) and about a week later we will see Netscape 8.0.3.

    Even after all of those fixes are released, it will still be bad from a security-standpoint for the reasons you mentioned about the delayed updates, and it will be even worse under the Internet Explorer engine because a lot of vulnerabilities simply can't be fixed on their end. Netscape 8, and it's users, have a long and bumpy road ahead of them.

    Oh, and I also disagree that this is pressure against Microsoft. Most of their users will likely switch over to the Internet Explorer engine and just leave it there. If anything they are helping Microsoft get their marketshare back by using their rendering engine and celebrating the release of their "secure" browser. This means that designers may have to fight Microsoft AND Netscape this time around. The only reason Microsoft were really taking the Acid2 test remotely-seriously was because of their declining marketshare and Netscape has just slowed it down so there's less incentive for Microsoft to pass the Acid2 test. It will be a long and bumpy road ahead of web designers as well.

    Just my opinion...

  24. #24
    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Slave I
    Posts
    23,426
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I think you're all giving Netscape too much credit. I don't think this browser will be adopted by enough users to affect anything really.

  25. #25
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Maine USA
    Posts
    3,781
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by stymiee
    I think you're all giving Netscape too much credit. I don't think this browser will be adopted by enough users to affect anything really.
    I'd agree with this. At the same time, the constant buzz created about options to MSIE will impact MSIE. The more buzz about the fact that there are alternatives to MSIE the more likely it is that regular users will try one of the alternatives.

    Oh, yes Netscape does use the IE engine; however, by default it only runs the IE engine on a select websites. For everyone else it uses the Gecko (Firefox) engine.
    Ken Barbalace: EnvironmentalChemistry.com (Blog, Careers)
    InternetSAR.org
    Volunteers Assist Search and Rescue via Internet
    My Firefox Theme: Classic Compact
    Based onFirefox's default theme but uses much less window space


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •