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  1. #1
    SitePoint Wizard Aes's Avatar
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    Why, why, why, why Windows?????

    Okay. I would really like some insight into what the Microsoft engineers were thinking?
    I mean, with all consumer versions of their "amazing products" (i.e. Win 95, 98, 98SE, ME), what would require them to make these OS's, that upon boot up mind you, suck up 50% of all available RAM? It doesn't stop there. With each consecutive program load, Windows seems to consume an additional 10 megs. And AGAIN -- it does not stop there!!! To put the icing on the proverbial cake, they must have Windows suck up the rest of the RAM in 5 megabyte intervals, which compound continuously, until all available bytes of RAM are consumed -- thus leaving for the oh so serenading harddrive thrashing as Windows desperately attempts to utilize swap file storage to run. I liken it to sinking your own boat while you're on it!
    Let me tell you, these guys are thinking!
    When I boot up or restart my 98SE (ME isn't worth the cheap @$$ cd it comes on -- and I boot up or restart in roughly 30 minute intervals), my 128 megs of RAM all of a sudden dwindle to a non-existent 34.7 megabytes. And I have about three small programs running in the background.
    So I ask, who likes Windows?
    If you do, you must be running low on RAM in your head -- because obviously you're not able to think clearly (what a coincidence -- just like windows not being able to operate cleanly!)
    Of course, to get a version that actually works (NT or 2000), one has to shell out three times more money. It's time for a revolution. Is it Linux I'm seeing?
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  2. #2
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    I never have any "bad" problems. I can usually work them out.

    My computer is on 24/7 and I have NEVER seen a BSOD using W2K on the past 6 months it's been on. I rarely ever recieve crashes.

    Windows 98/98SE wasn't that bad either. I still like it...

    Maybe it's just you.
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  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I'm a Win2k/Mandrake user. Fortunately they both are good with memory, at least if you have Win98 as the standard.

    Windows does have an appetite for RAM. It is also not good of letting go of RAM once you have used it, even Windows 2000. If you open a lot of programs and close them all out, you have quite a bit of RAM used up without a good reason. This has caused developers to create programs like RAMBooster and MemTurbo.

    Right now all I have open is one IM, a couple of IE windows, and that is pretty much it. 155 MB of RAM is being in use. If this was right after a boot, that number would be under 100 probably.

    Aes - it is Linux you are seeing.

    I'd be more of a Linux user myself, but I am finding it hard to move over to that platform. I am managing with Windows 2000, even if it does have an apetite for RAM.

  4. #4
    One website at a time mmj's Avatar
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    Windows uses a lot of RAM. There are a few things you can do to help things out though.

    - You can set the size of the disk cache. Usually in win95/98 the hard disk cache starts small and grows whenever there is a large amount of memory free. However it nearly never shrinks again when the memory becomes needed. It uses up a quarter or more of your RAM. Programs like cacheman can set an upper (or lower) limit on the size of your disk cache.

    - To speed up the performance of your swap file, you can create a permanent swap file. Defragment your system, set the maximum and minimum size of your "virtual memory" to the same size: I recommend 256Mb for you, and then restart. The 256 of swap file should then be contiguous.

    - Get more RAM. 128 is pretty conservative for a modern system. 256 or 384 is common.

    - Reboot or restart windows once every so often - I probably do this on average once per week. Windows is a bit slow in the head when it comes to releasing dynamic modules from memory.
    Last edited by mmj; Jun 21, 2001 at 21:49.
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  5. #5
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    I hate the OS, I hate the programs - the only MS program I can cope with is IE and even that feels like firing up the equivalent of a panzer tank every time you hit the stoopid 'e' symbol...
    If there is a more complex and frustrating way of doing something - Microsoft will find it.

  6. #6
    SitePoint Addict Seer's Avatar
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    I installed Linux on an older computer, AMD K6 300 with 64mb's memory and it runs suprisingly well. Windows on the same machine would be chugging away non-stop. Until popular programs that run on windows are available for use with Linux, it's great to use but not all that useful for me. I just upgraded to Win2k and the improvements alone should keep me satisfied for a while.
    Everything has been figured out, except how to live. - Jean-Paul Sartre (1905-1980)

  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    ME is a hog from what I understand. Try going back to Win 98se or moving on to Win2k.

    I have heard very few good things about WinME.
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  8. #8
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    To be honest, Aes, what you are describing sounds like an unterminated memory leak... Normally this is associated with programs however it seems like it might actually be one of the windows apps in your case which isn't good...

    Is a reformat an option?
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  9. #9
    SitePoint Enthusiast heth2bthere's Avatar
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    I'm using WIN ME right now on one of my computers and it's given me tons of problems. At first I thought it was programs I had on my computer but they have been removed and I have done all the trouble shooting and the only thing left, is to blame it on WIN ME.. (lol)

    I'm not happy with it at all.. I plan to switch ASAP.
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  10. #10
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Ugh @ winME... Go to win2k. Simple
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
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  11. #11
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Does win2k have MIDI support?

  12. #12
    SitePoint Wizard Aes's Avatar
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    Yeah -- if I had the money I'd make the move to Win2000 -- all NT versions are much, much better than the consumer "thowaway" counterparts. I have Linux-Mandrake 7.2 -- going to get 8.0 here soon -- and as soon I get another harddrive I'm going to get it re-installed. I was just having bad 98SE problems last night and so I spoke out of anger. =)
    Colin Anderson
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    sense enough to be lazy.

  13. #13
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Why wouldn't there be? If you have a MIDI input and the appropriate driver I can see no reason why it wouldn't... I mean, we do sound mixing on win2k so I'd really have to assume yes (we also do video recording and encoding).
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  14. #14
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by studiococo
    ...the appropriate driver...
    Ahhh - that could be why I was warned off of Win2K, not much driver support for music hardware/exp. sound-cards...

  15. #15
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    No... There wasn't when it was launched however I have yet to encounter a problem finding drivers... In reality it is more common for me to have problems finding drivers for our older 95 systems.
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  16. #16
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, I guess it has been out a couple o' years now...

    Maybe I'll go W2K if I ever buy another PC.

    It seems to work quite well here at work (but then we are running 6000 all-SCSI IBM behemoths...)

  17. #17
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Well, most of our systems aren't that high end (20K servers aside) and it runs fine on all that it is on (20 of 200).
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
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  18. #18
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    ...I still hate the OS itself.

  19. #19
    SitePoint Addict Seer's Avatar
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    When I was using WinME I had my share of problems as well. The thing's like the dryer and the missing sock when it comes to memory. I had removed anything from startup that I could get away with and my computer would start with 95% memory free. Anytime I ran a large program, Photoshop, Bryce, etc memory would slooowly drain. I could close everything out and i'd still only be at maybe 50% free. Even the rambooster programs didn't cut it and seemed to often add to the problem. I just got sick of losing work everytime something would lock up which happened quite often. Only way around it was to restart about every hour. I've been running win2k for 2 days straight now, no restarts, no blue screens, no problems ( though IE seems to error on ccasion ). Applications run much smoother, I can run twice as many without a flinch. It's too soon to overly praise it, but aside from the nightmare upgrade, it's top crop for first impressions and all my hardware and software seem to be fully compatible.
    Last edited by Seer; Jun 22, 2001 at 07:46.
    Everything has been figured out, except how to live. - Jean-Paul Sartre (1905-1980)

  20. #20
    SitePoint Wizard Aes's Avatar
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    With the exception of running Win2K, Seer's problem is the exact same as mine. Ram Boosting programs only seem to add to the problem.
    Colin Anderson
    Ambition is a poor excuse for those without
    sense enough to be lazy.

  21. #21
    SitePoint Addict Seer's Avatar
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    Before I upgraded, I added 32mb's from my older machine. Needless to say, I think it only fed to the beasts hunger. There is nothing more frustrating ( other than the B.S.O.D. ) than switching between apps and seeing nothing but a white square. I think WinME a lost cause, unless you're willing to spend the money on doubling the memory in hope it will fix the problem. If anyone's to take that route, might as well just upgrade. I was told WinME could not be upgraded though, so I had to move back to Win98 first.
    Last edited by Seer; Jun 22, 2001 at 08:18.
    Everything has been figured out, except how to live. - Jean-Paul Sartre (1905-1980)

  22. #22
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    windows 9x has big problems utilizing large amounts of ram, so even if you plug alot in it won't matter.

    Get more ram, its only 30 cents a megabyte now, and upgrade to win2k


    right now looking at my task manager:

    processes: 32

    mem usage: 174m/793m
    Last edited by aspen; Jun 22, 2001 at 10:25.
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  23. #23
    <? echo "Kick me"; ?> petesmc's Avatar
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    You've got under 1mb of ram?

  24. #24
    SitePoint Enthusiast stuartd's Avatar
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    I know that no one cares for Windows in here, but if you're stuck with it... here's an interesting tidbit that they kinda forgot to tell people about.

    In the System.ini file, if you go to the [386enh] section and put in this line:

    ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1

    Than Windows will only use Ram when needed... instead of just going and grabbing it for itself for no good reason.

    Why in the world Windows isn't installed with this line in the first place, I'll never know! But I have 224 megs of ram... I know, strange number. But Since putting that line in for Win98, or WinME... I haven't seen a swap file again. I've ran Quake 3, then I ran Voyage: Elite Force (awesome game) and still didn't have a swap file. Where as before I would have had a good 150 - 200 meg swap file before.

    It was rather refreshing.

    So if you're stuck with a Win9.x or ME (I have no idea if it'll do anything for NT or 2000)... than use that line in your system.ini. Believe me, it works! You'll notice a huge improvement.

    Stuart Duncan
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  25. #25
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    Originally posted by petesmc
    You've got under 1mb of ram?
    hehe
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