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  1. #1
    SitePoint Addict manipura's Avatar
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    Professional PHP

    How much Programming do you have to do until you can really call yourself a Professional PHP Programmer?

  2. #2
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Skill doesn't matter.

    Unless someone is paying you to do it you're not a professional.

    Thats what the word professional comes from, profession. Career, job, etc.
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  3. #3
    SitePoint Addict manipura's Avatar
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    Ok, sorry, I should have said like expert, or advanced or anything that says you are really good at what you do..

  4. #4
    What's HTML?
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    I have no idea. Although I do still consider myself a newbie even though I know a little more then most newbies, maybe I'll upgrade myself once I develop some worthwhile software (working on it!) I would probably say though that Louie is a PHP expert or pretty close, he must eat, sleep, and breathe PHP.
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  5. #5
    SitePoint Evangelist mad-onion's Avatar
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    There is no point were you can say "ooo yay im a pro now!" i definately dont consider myself to be a "pro" although i do know PHP quite well and i havent faced anything that i cant easily handle for months!

    I would think that people like freddy, Kevin, and of course Rasmus Lerdorf could call themselves PHP Pro's!!
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  6. #6
    ComDude CryingWolf's Avatar
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    ten million lines of code
    body { background:#000000; color:#000000 }
    HEY, WHO TURNED OUT THE LIGHTS?!?
    Easy come easy go!!!
    CryingWolf

  7. #7
    SitePoint Evangelist mad-onion's Avatar
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    Originally posted by CryingWolf
    ten million lines of code
    No that cant be right, anyone who has written 10million lines of anything obviously has to much spare time and should find a job (profession)
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  8. #8
    ********* Callithumpian silver trophy freakysid's Avatar
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    It depends on which book you buy. There is one that will teach you everything you need to know in 24 hours. Not bad eh?

  9. #9
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    rule of thumb

    if you've done (architected, implemented, etc.) ten successful projects of varying complexity... in any language... you've probably seen and mastered 99.8% of the language.

    By project I mean a completed deliverable... not just a small piece of a project.


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  10. #10
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Unless everyone is calling you an expert, you're not an expert. If you're always concious of efficiency, can put most newbies to shame, and have a decent amount of real-world experience, you can probably call yourself an intermediate.

    It varies from language to language, but overall, the key is to have a deep thirst for more. "Advanced" is not a level you will achieve. By the time you truly are advanced, you won't care that you're truly advanced -- you'll be too busy putting those truly advanced skills to work.

  11. #11
    ComDude CryingWolf's Avatar
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    Originally posted by freakysid
    It depends on which book you buy. There is one that will teach you everything you need to know in 24 hours. Not bad eh?
    Yep I am a professional with

    Code:
    <?php
    
    $thevar = "Hello World";
    
    echo $thevar;
    
    ?>
    body { background:#000000; color:#000000 }
    HEY, WHO TURNED OUT THE LIGHTS?!?
    Easy come easy go!!!
    CryingWolf

  12. #12
    ComDude CryingWolf's Avatar
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    Re: rule of thumb

    Originally posted by ame12
    if you've done (architected, implemented, etc.) ten successful projects of varying complexity... in any language... you've probably seen and mastered 99.8% of the language.

    By project I mean a completed deliverable... not just a small piece of a project.
    Only ten???


    It's all good then
    body { background:#000000; color:#000000 }
    HEY, WHO TURNED OUT THE LIGHTS?!?
    Easy come easy go!!!
    CryingWolf

  13. #13
    will code HTML for food Michel V's Avatar
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    Ten isn't a little number... At the moment I'm doing my first *complete* PHP project (an easily extendible weblog system) and it's a real lot of work...
    [blogger: zengun] [blogware contributor: wordpress]

  14. #14
    SitePoint Addict manipura's Avatar
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    Yeah, but what about one big job that has lots of things to it. I'm Have built a business directory with lots of back end features, there is also a commission calculator and sales report for the salesmen. I'm just finishing up a Personal Ads site and just starting a discussion board. Next will be a chat room and E-mailing system. But its all one large project for one company.

  15. #15
    SitePoint Evangelist mad-onion's Avatar
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    I suppose you could consider a project a set of stantalone scripts!
    But then again on a project like that you might use central template files and config files...so its hard to say!..
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  16. #16
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    personally I'd say that if you got the skills to code a BB like this one then you're an expert.

    A good BB will be a very very complicated application and should probably test your knowledge on every aspect of a language.
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  17. #17
    SitePoint Addict manipura's Avatar
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    So in other words if you can spend 6 months programming then you are good at it? I could probably build a BB like this, but I know it would take a lot of work!

  18. #18
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Originally posted by manipura
    So in other words if you can spend 6 months programming then you are good at it? I could probably build a BB like this, but I know it would take a lot of work!
    I hate to say something that may insult you (my apologies in advance), but I don't think you could. I'd be quite taken aback if anyone here could produce a bulletin board script of TRULY comparable quality.

    Sure, the basics would be easy, but there are a lot of customizable options that would be murder to implement without years of time.

  19. #19
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    I don't know how many tables VB uses in its DB but its probably atleast 15-20.

    So you can imagine how complicated the php is if the database consists of 20 tables.

    But you also gotta remember what working knowledge is.

    I've worked with alot of programming languages, alot (perl, c, c++, java, cf, asp, php, javascript) and I can't keep syntax straight, so I need a reference manual.

    Could you write a BB application from scratch without any reference material? No. Could anyone? Very very few.

    But if you have a manual in front of you could you? Given enough time and enough programming aptitude, yes. Thats called working knowledge of a language. Meaning you don't know everything, but you know what you need to know and you know where to find it.

    What I meant when I said if you could code a BB type application I meant that if you sat down, worked at it, and coded one (which I don't think is too hard, time consuming and you will be learning alot along the way, but doable) then, when you're done, I think it'd be safe to call yourself an expert. Because coding a BB like this would probably hit upon every aspect of a language.

    (text formatting, database integration, parsing, mail functions, data functions, sessions, date/time functions, encoding and decoding functions, cookies) Thats just off the top of my head skills required for something like this.
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  20. #20
    SitePoint Addict manipura's Avatar
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    Ok, one of these day's I should challenge myself to make a BB like this.

  21. #21
    SitePoint Evangelist mad-onion's Avatar
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    gotta agree with aspen on the working knowledge thing, if being able to write code in a language (using reference material every few lines) means you know the lang. then i could (along with alot of members here) list a good 20 or so languages, all of which i have worked in but only a few have i actually learnt to any level!

    I wouldnt call myself a PHP expert but i dont often come up against anything i cant do with a bit of sweat so i would say if i really but my all into it and a ton of sweat i could write a script like VB. It would be interesting to read an article by the programmers of VB, about their troubles programming this.

    Back to defining expert, i though about this during accounting at school today! I think there is two types of programmers those that can write anything that it is possible to write with a particular language and those that can write certain things! If you can write anything reasonably quickly and without refering to any reference material then you can call yourself an expert...
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  22. #22
    What's HTML?
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    I can write a script that prompts the user for information, checks over the input for any errors, and then adds it to a database. It's a reasonable script that I created relatively quickly. Never looked through my books or online sources while doing it. Does that mean I'm an expert? No.

    As someone said earlier, it's hard to define an expert. In any field...
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  23. #23
    Victory shall be mine tubedogg's Avatar
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    Originally posted by aspen
    I don't know how many tables VB uses in its DB but its probably atleast 15-20.
    vB uses 36 tables and 41928 lines of code, give or take.
    Kevin

  24. #24
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Originally posted by tubedogg
    vB uses 36 tables and 41928 lines of code, give or take.
    See... thats what I'm talking about. If you do that, you can call yourself an expert.
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  25. #25
    SitePoint Addict manipura's Avatar
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    I could easily go in and code a semi-complex page, with no reference material. So what you are saying is if you manage to memorize a language you can call yourself an expert? After lots of thought there is no "Wow I'm an expert now" Its slowly building your way up the spiral. Going in circles, coming across the same problems but everytime you do, you see it in a totally different way.

    In order to be good with PHP, its not how much of the language you know. Its how well you work with it. Know what part of the language is better for what you need to get done. Like using Switch() instead of a lot of if's. I find the hardest would be to plan out a database structure before you start anything. Planning out how everything will work with what it needs to work with. How to optimize your scripts to easy customization for future plans you have for them.


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